Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #992
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST          Tuesday, January 15 2002          Volume 01 : Number 992

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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:58:45 +1100
From: "Patrick Corliss" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Task Forces and Working Groups

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 00:16:58 +0100, Thomas Roessler wrote:

> Since there have been some discussions recently on starting a
> Working Group on the deleted domains issue, a word on how we are
> planning to handle such requests may seem in order.
>
> Basically, two situations can occur:
>
>  1. Some topic is being discussed all over the DNSO, and
>     constituencies want to achieve some consensus.  The current
>     method of approaching this is that the Names Council starts a
>     Task Force.

This is a new "shortcut" approach.  However, it is not consensual.
In the past, working groups were common enough.  See, for example:

http://www.dnso.org/dnso/WGs.html

>     If constituencies agree on this, there's not much
>     the GA can do about it - in particular, we can't draw the
>     constituencies to some open working group against their own will.

That's quite a generalisation.  There is a huge difference between the
non-commercial interests and those of the registries or registrars.  As well,
even the ICANN accredited registrars may well oppose VeriSign's proposals.
And the ccTLDs will have their own opinions.

>     In such Task Forces, the GA will be represented, and - as we said
>     in our "thank you" posting - we'll ask the GA representative to
>     the Task Force to regularly report on the happenings in that TF
>     to the main GA list.  If someone feels a need to provide further
>     input on the topic of the particular TF (or to discuss it), the
>     GA list wil be a good place for such discussions,

I don't think the noisy GA list is a "good place" for debate.

In the past debates have frequently been diverted.  You have already indicated
that you thought the WLS delete debate was derailed.

>     and the GA rep
>     to the TF should transport the arguments and results from such
>     discussions to the Task Force.
>
>     If required by the traffic generated, the GA could easily set up
>     a "separate mirror WG" on that topic, which accompanies the Names
>     Council task force.

I think you might mean "parallel" rather than "mirror".  However, there is
absolutely no reason why the GA shouldn't debate issues other than those for
which a Task Force has been established.

IOW, the GA could set up its own Working Groups ad hoc.

>  2. Some topic may be intensively debated on the GA list itself.
>     There's nothing wrong about this, and we'd generally like to ask
>     those who discuss it to just keep their discussions on the GA
>     list.  After all, that's what the list was made for.

That's what the "special purpose" mailing lists were made for.

>     If too much traffic is generated, such discussions can and should
>     be moved off the main GA list, and we'd certainly like to help
>     you to create such a list.  Whether you call it a special
>     interest mailing list or a "DNSO GA WG" is up to yo7u. ;-)

Should the GA prefer a Working Group is up to them too.

> Of course, all this says nothing about what position we take in the
> general Working-Group-vs-Task-Force controversy.

Hedging and fudging. As Chair, don't take any "position".

> Frankly, we don't know which method is more efficient.  Both have
> their up- and downsides.  Maybe there's another model which is
> better than both.

Meanwhile . . .

> For this reason, we'll try to organize some discussion on this for
> the GA's Accra physical meeting.  However, this is still in the most
> early planning and drafting stage, so we don't promise anything
> special yet - except that we are aware of the issue, and will try to
> get some clarification on it.

As an internet body, most participant won't go to Accra.
BTW, can you or Alexander afford the travel expenses?

> Finally, how does this apply to the domain deletions issue?  For the
> moment, we'd ask that the discussion remains on the main GA list,

Unless the membership prefers otherwise, of course.

> and that discussions on whether to form a working group or not are
> suspended.

Huh ???  You just said you would not take a "position".  In fact, you are
trying, very ineptly, to manipulate the GA to your way of thinking.

Which is that you don't want a Working Group.

> If extensive discussions on deletions continue, and if
> they become a problem for other discussions, we can still move them
> elsewhere.  As they say on Usenet: Show traffic, get group.

In other words, if the GA membership fights you hard enough, you will bow to
the inevitable and do what they want.

That's hardly off to a good start, Thomas.

Best regards
Patrick Corliss

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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:22:23 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Task Forces and Working Groups

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In a message dated 1/15/2002 12:11:06 PM Central Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> <I don't think the noisy GA list is a "good place" for debate.>
> 
> 

If you can't debate on teh GA list - you won't be able to anywhere!  Fact of 
Life around here. 

<<That's hardly off to a good start, Thomas.>>

For Gawd's sake, give Thomas a chance !  He was elected so let him get on 
with it !

There is no excuse for everyone trying to dictate or push their own way on 
everyone ... there can be straw polls, votes, etc. so that everyone has a say 
in things.  Bickerin,  Bitchin and Bossin accomplishes nothing !

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/15/2002 12:11:06 PM Central Standard Time, [email-masked] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&lt;I don't think the noisy GA list is a "good place" for debate.&gt;
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>If you can't debate on teh GA list - you won't be able to anywhere! &nbsp;Fact of Life around here. 
<BR>
<BR>&lt;&lt;That's hardly off to a good start, Thomas.&gt;&gt;
<BR>
<BR>For Gawd's sake, give Thomas a chance ! &nbsp;He was elected so let him get on with it !
<BR>
<BR>There is no excuse for everyone trying to dictate or push their own way on everyone ... there can be straw polls, votes, etc. so that everyone has a say in things. &nbsp;Bickerin, &nbsp;Bitchin and Bossin accomplishes nothing !
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:35:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick H Wesson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: The GA -- A Respected Forum ?

Patrick,

On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Patrick Corliss wrote:

[snip]

> In fact, the true situation supports my contention that the GA is NOT
> representative of a wide range of geographic, industry, non-commercial or even
> individual views.

Your presumtpion is about those that post, not those that read the GA
list. Scientificly its near impossable to prove your assumption.

- -rick

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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:42:22 -0500
From: "Gomes, Chuck" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] RE: [icann-delete] WLS Input - Greatest Good vs. Benefits of the  Few

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Ross,

Nothing has changed with the statements I made. On what basis did you
conclude that we would "arbitrarily launch the service without
appropriately consulting the community?"

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Wm. Rader [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:33 PM
> To: Ron Wiener; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Cc: Registrars@Dnso. Org
> Subject: Re: [icann-delete] WLS Input - Greatest Good vs. Benefits of
> the Few
> 
> 
> Ron,
> 
> I haven't yet had a time to digest the entire PDF, so these 
> comments are
> limited to a specific portion of the document. Further 
> comments on the rest
> of the document later.
> 
> (text deleted)
> 
> I do have one question for VGRS and SnapNames however based 
> on a couple of
> statements made by Chuck last October concerning
> 
> "ICANN would certainly need to be involved if any changes 
> were required to
> existing agreements or existing policy."
> 
> and
> 
> "In response to Ross' question about where we go from here, I 
> stated that I
> am still willing to work with ICANN with regard to policy 
> issues and within
> VGRS to develop estimated time frames for the possible 
> implementation of the
> [WLS] proposal."
> 
> When do you expect that this will finally happen? My 
> preference is that it
> occur before you arbitrarily launch the service without appropriately
> consulting the community. Perhaps this is a self-interested 
> minority view as
> well however, so I might be off-base wth this one.
> 
> -rwr
> 
>> 

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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:43:21 -0500
From: "Ross Wm. Rader" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [icann-delete] WLS Input - Greatest Good vs. Benefits of the Few

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>
> Nothing has changed with the statements I made. On what basis did you
> conclude that we would "arbitrarily launch the service without
> appropriately consulting the community?"

Conclusion? It was a question and a statement of preference - certainly not
a conclusion. The statement of preference and the question still stand
however.

- -rwr

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AAAA

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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:04:54 -0800
From: William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: [ga] Task Forces and Working Groups

Tuesday, Tuesday, January 15, 2002, 9:58:45 AM, Patrick Corliss wrote:
>>     In such Task Forces, the GA will be represented, and - as we said
>>     in our "thank you" posting - we'll ask the GA representative to
>>     the Task Force to regularly report on the happenings in that TF
>>     to the main GA list.  If someone feels a need to provide further
>>     input on the topic of the particular TF (or to discuss it), the
>>     GA list wil be a good place for such discussions,

> I don't think the noisy GA list is a "good place" for debate.

The only noise was created by you and Eric, Patrick.  The discussion
was going fine, until you and Eric decided you wanted to use this
issue to further your own agendas on how things should be run and
further your personal position on open working groups.

- -- 
Best regards,
William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
- --

"There is no better way to exercise the imagination than the study of
the law. No artist ever interpreted nature as freely as a lawyer
interprets the truth."
- -- Jean Giradoux

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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:23:42 -0800
From: Ron Wiener <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] WLS Input - Greatest Good vs. Benefits of the Few

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Rather than respond to individual response documents and e-mail posts,
please find attached a concise document, in PDF format.
 
Cheers,
Ron

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<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p><SPAN=20
class=3D949355715-15012002>Rather than respond to individual response =
documents=20
and e-mail posts, please find attached a&nbsp;concise document, =
in&nbsp;PDF=20
format.</SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p><SPAN=20
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
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class=3D949355715-15012002>Cheers,</SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
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L>

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #992
************************