Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #935
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST          Friday, December 21 2001          Volume 01 : Number 935

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:16:15 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscali

Thomas and all,

  Thomas, thank you for this input.  It is not unexpected of course.
As has been the steady but somewhat subdued trend, the ISP's
seeking additional customers and service product offerings, Inclusive
and competitive registries/Root structures are becoming the best avenue
for both potential customer and the ISP's....

Thomas Roessler wrote:

> According to an item on Heise's news ticker, Tiscali - one of the
> larger European ISPs - has joined the club of those who will add
> new.net's domains.
>
> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-20.12.01-000/
> http://www.new.net/tiscali_press.tp
>
> There doesn't seem to be any press release on Tiscali's web site.
>
> --
> Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.org/
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:04:24 +0100
From: "Pascal Bernhard - cube" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscali

Jeff, Thomas and all,

Tiscal has confirmed that there is a form of cooperation with new.net.

_but_ following my information, there's no active registration over the 
Tiscali network. Furthermore a Domain resolution over the Tiscali DNS 
has not been confirmed yet. As far as I know, there are no further 
informations as the press release of new.net, which doesn't say veray 
much...

Regards,
Pascal

On 20 Dec 2001 at 13:16, Jeff Williams wrote:

> Thomas and all,
> 
>   Thomas, thank you for this input.  It is not unexpected of course. As
> has been the steady but somewhat subdued trend, the ISP's seeking
> additional customers and service product offerings, Inclusive and
> competitive registries/Root structures are becoming the best avenue for
> both potential customer and the ISP's....
> 
> Thomas Roessler wrote:
> 
> > According to an item on Heise's news ticker, Tiscali - one of the
> > larger European ISPs - has joined the club of those who will add
> > new.net's domains.
> >
> > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-20.12.01-000/
> > http://www.new.net/tiscali_press.tp
> >
> > There doesn't seem to be any press release on Tiscali's web site.
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.org/
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> 
> 
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> 
> 

================================
Pascal Bernhard
cube
Geschäfte werden von Menschen gemacht...
[email-masked]
http://cube.de/
http://boroon.de/
FON: +49-6352-753725
FAX: +49-6352-753726
Mail: Im See 3 - 67295 Bolanden

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:51:20 +0100 (MET)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscali

@ Pascal and all,

There will be definitivly a Domain resolution over the Tiscali DNS. All other is wishful thinking from you as a competitor.

According to my information New.net will add another big ISP in the next days to jump over 100 mil users with access before 2002.

ISPs smell the cash... there is no reason for ISPs why they shouldn't join the New.net team. Hey, they get mo money and their customers get more TLDs.
Sounds goog to me. 

Sorry,
but as always money makes the world go round.

cheers,
simon
http://nic.pro.xs2.net

> Jeff, Thomas and all,
> Tiscal has confirmed that there is a form of cooperation with new.net.
> _but_ following my information, there's no active registration over the 
> Tiscali network. Furthermore a Domain resolution over the Tiscali DNS 
> has not been confirmed yet. As far as I know, there are no further 
> informations as the press release of new.net, which doesn't say veray 
> much...
> Regards,
> Pascal
> On 20 Dec 2001 at 13:16, Jeff Williams wrote:
> > Thomas and all,
> > 
> >   Thomas, thank you for this input.  It is not unexpected of course. As
> > has been the steady but somewhat subdued trend, the ISP's seeking
> > additional customers and service product offerings, Inclusive and
> > competitive registries/Root structures are becoming the best avenue for
> > both potential customer and the ISP's....
> > 
> > Thomas Roessler wrote:
> > 
> > > According to an item on Heise's news ticker, Tiscali - one of the
> > > larger European ISPs - has joined the club of those who will add
> > > new.net's domains.
> > >
> > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-20.12.01-000/
> > > http://www.new.net/tiscali_press.tp
> > >
> > > There doesn't seem to be any press release on Tiscali's web site.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.org/
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail [email-masked]
> > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ('unsubscribe ga' in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > 
> > 
> ================================
> Pascal Bernhard
> cube
> Geschäfte werden von Menschen gemacht...
> [email-masked]
> http://cube.de/
> http://boroon.de/
> FON: +49-6352-753725
> FAX: +49-6352-753726
> Mail: Im See 3 - 67295 Bolanden
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ('unsubscribe ga' in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:59:18 +0100 (CET)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] New chair candidates

In private messages it has been suggested to me to accept the nomination
for chair of the GA. I am afraid I cannot do so. And I would like to
explain why to all of you.

For several reasons, both personal, but mainly Icannesque I have to
decline the honour.

I am most disappointed at the way ICANN is handling the report of the .org
task force, in which I participated on behalf of the GA. Touton
interfering, the NC Chair trying to put his stamp on it before actually
discussing it in the NC, it made me a bit bitter. "Due process" seems to
mean something else in ICANN than in my vocabulary.

Also, as some of you may know, I am running a root-server in the ORSC
(Open Root Server Confederation) for a year now. This would probably make
it impossible for the NC to appoint me, given ICANNs president's
unfortunate stance on these matters.

Things may start to move, not so much perhaps in the old alt roots, but
elsewhere, as you perhaps have seen on some list today. Tiscali, a not
very small ISP in Europe, is going to do new.net. I don't like this
approach, of new.net, but it shows that the 'power' in the DNS will
perhaps move to ISPs. I am not sure this is good, in fact I still think,
it isn't. But what can we do? I can put up a server, but what does it
matter, if nobody points to it?

If this sounds bitter, I apologize. I am still interested in fighting
for some 'decent' solution towards an open and solid DNS without the
veneer of a cartel.

Regards,

- -- 
[email-masked]

+31 30 699 28 25
+31 6 55 81 82 16 (mobile)
+31 30 699 01 51 (fax)

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:36:06 -0800
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscal i

If you think about it, this is obviously what ICANN wants. As the main dog
in the manger, keeping all other cooperative/collective solutions
suppressed, the cartel approach is the only way left to route around them.

The ICANN is either too stupid for words or they are cunningly manipulating
the internet into a cartel-only existance. I don't see a middle-ground
interpretation of their actions. Maybe my imagination is lacking?

|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Marc Schneiders [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:11 PM
|> To: [email-masked]
|> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
|> Subject: Re: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and
|> Tiscali
|> 
|> 
|> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, at 22:51 [=GMT+0100], [email-masked] wrote:
|> 
|> > @ Pascal and all,
|> > 
|> > There will be definitivly a Domain resolution over the Tiscali
|> > DNS. All other is wishful thinking from you as a competitor.
|> > 
|> > According to my information New.net will add another big ISP in
|> > the next days to jump over 100 mil users with access before 2002.
|> > 
|> > ISPs smell the cash... there is no reason for ISPs why they
|> > shouldn't join the New.net team. Hey, they get mo money and their
|> > customers get more TLDs. Sounds goog to me.
|> > 
|> > Sorry,
|> > but as always money makes the world go round.
|> 
|> No need to apologize, just to think. Is this what we want? Me selling
|> bad.kids and you too? 
|> 
|> I don't think so. I would like to go for something solid. Regulated,
|> but NOT a cartel.
|> 
|> -- 
|> [email-masked]
|> 
|> > 
|> > cheers,
|> > simon
|> > http://nic.pro.xs2.net
|> > 
|> > > Jeff, Thomas and all,
|> > > Tiscal has confirmed that there is a form of cooperation 
|> with new.net.
|> > > _but_ following my information, there's no active 
|> registration over the 
|> > > Tiscali network. Furthermore a Domain resolution over 
|> the Tiscali DNS 
|> > > has not been confirmed yet. As far as I know, there are 
|> no further 
|> > > informations as the press release of new.net, which 
|> doesn't say veray 
|> > > much...
|> > > Regards,
|> > > Pascal
|> > > On 20 Dec 2001 at 13:16, Jeff Williams wrote:
|> > > > Thomas and all,
|> > > > 
|> > > >   Thomas, thank you for this input.  It is not 
|> unexpected of course. As
|> > > > has been the steady but somewhat subdued trend, the 
|> ISP's seeking
|> > > > additional customers and service product offerings, 
|> Inclusive and
|> > > > competitive registries/Root structures are becoming 
|> the best avenue for
|> > > > both potential customer and the ISP's....
|> > > > 
|> > > > Thomas Roessler wrote:
|> > > > 
|> > > > > According to an item on Heise's news ticker, Tiscali 
|> - one of the
|> > > > > larger European ISPs - has joined the club of those 
|> who will add
|> > > > > new.net's domains.
|> > > > >
|> > > > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-20.12.01-000/
|> > > > > http://www.new.net/tiscali_press.tp
|> > > > >
|> > > > > There doesn't seem to be any press release on 
|> Tiscali's web site.
|> > > > >
|> > > > > --
|> > > > > Thomas Roessler                        
http://log.does-not-exist.org/
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > E-Mail [email-masked]
> > > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > ('unsubscribe ga' in the body of the message).
> > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > ================================
> > Pascal Bernhard
> > cube
> > Geschäfte werden von Menschen gemacht...
> > [email-masked]
> > http://cube.de/
> > http://boroon.de/
> > FON: +49-6352-753725
> > FAX: +49-6352-753726
> > Mail: Im See 3 - 67295 Bolanden
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ('unsubscribe ga' in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> 
> 
> -- 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> 

- -- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:49:55 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Verisigns' perspective

Eric and all assembly members,

  Although this article provides some interesting yet well known direction
in which Verisign is heading, becoming a "Utility", and it is very slick marketing
pitch encoded in this article, it none the less cannot change the contractual
arrangements that Verisign has with ICANN most especially the $200m
commitment for the turn over of .ORG and .NET in exchange for
permanent "Ownership" of .COM.  That is hardly irrelevant...

Eric Dierker wrote:

> I think this article pretty much makes it clear that ICANN is irrelevant
> to Versign.
>
> http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=JTO1NTOMTN2OWCRBAEZSFEYKEEATIIWD?type=internetnews&StoryID=469817
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                                                                         Name: news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=JTO1NTOMTN2OWCRBAEZSFEYKEEATIIWD
>    news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=JTO1NTOMTN2OWCRBAEZSFEYKEEATIIWD       Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html)
>                                                                     Encoding: 7BIT

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:55:46 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] New chair candidates

Marc and all assembly members,

  I am sorry and saddened to read here why you believe you cannot
accept the nomination for the Chair of the GA election.  Indeed
unfortunate for all concerned.

Marc Schneiders wrote:

> In private messages it has been suggested to me to accept the nomination
> for chair of the GA. I am afraid I cannot do so. And I would like to
> explain why to all of you.
>
> For several reasons, both personal, but mainly Icannesque I have to
> decline the honour.
>
> I am most disappointed at the way ICANN is handling the report of the .org
> task force, in which I participated on behalf of the GA. Touton
> interfering, the NC Chair trying to put his stamp on it before actually
> discussing it in the NC, it made me a bit bitter. "Due process" seems to
> mean something else in ICANN than in my vocabulary.
>
> Also, as some of you may know, I am running a root-server in the ORSC
> (Open Root Server Confederation) for a year now. This would probably make
> it impossible for the NC to appoint me, given ICANNs president's
> unfortunate stance on these matters.
>
> Things may start to move, not so much perhaps in the old alt roots, but
> elsewhere, as you perhaps have seen on some list today. Tiscali, a not
> very small ISP in Europe, is going to do new.net. I don't like this
> approach, of new.net, but it shows that the 'power' in the DNS will
> perhaps move to ISPs. I am not sure this is good, in fact I still think,
> it isn't. But what can we do? I can put up a server, but what does it
> matter, if nobody points to it?
>
> If this sounds bitter, I apologize. I am still interested in fighting
> for some 'decent' solution towards an open and solid DNS without the
> veneer of a cartel.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> [email-masked]
>
> +31 30 699 28 25
> +31 6 55 81 82 16 (mobile)
> +31 30 699 01 51 (fax)
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:13:11 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscal i

Marc, Roeland and all assembly members,

  We [INEGroup] have long agreed that splitting the Net/Root structure
was not the best solution to expansion of the DNS and especially the
addition of new TLD's.  However the ICANN Interim BoD and than
the ICANN BOD and staff have made this necessary by their lack
of both vision and disregard for RFC 1591.  Hence companies such
as New.Net along with other ISP's have little choice if they wish to
remain competitive in a ever increasingly competitive market.

  The ICANN BoD and staff have created the "Mess" and have also
refused to help clean it up thus far.  I personally suspect that sometime
down the road that this too shall see a great change in direction.

Marc Schneiders wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, at 15:36 [=GMT-0800], Roeland Meyer wrote:
>
> > If you think about it, this is obviously what ICANN wants. As the main dog
> > in the manger, keeping all other cooperative/collective solutions
> > suppressed, the cartel approach is the only way left to route around them.
> >
> > The ICANN is either too stupid for words or they are cunningly manipulating
> > the internet into a cartel-only existance. I don't see a middle-ground
> > interpretation of their actions. Maybe my imagination is lacking?
>
> I think your imigination is quite acurate. Unfortunately. This doesn't
> mean I have to like the solution of new.net, or any other counter
> cartel. ICANN may be a cartel (and mainly it is, I think). That
> doesn't mean that the way out is a competitor that does not 'talk'
> with it. Yes, I know that the breaking down of Telco monopolies (I
> only know about here, Holland) was not easy, but at least it did not
> turn into a _mess_. new.net etc means a mess, as you know. I have seen
> your efforts to repair this mess on a technical DNS level, and I
> appreciate your ideas. But this is not the way for 'users'.
>
> We should avoid a mess, really, not because it would not be fun, it
> would be.
>
> M
>
>  > > |> -----Original
> Message----- > |> From: Marc Schneiders [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > |> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:11 PM
> > |> To: [email-masked]
> > |> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > |> Subject: Re: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and
> > |> Tiscali
> > |>
> > |>
> > |> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, at 22:51 [=GMT+0100], [email-masked] wrote:
> > |>
> > |> > @ Pascal and all,
> > |> >
> > |> > There will be definitivly a Domain resolution over the Tiscali
> > |> > DNS. All other is wishful thinking from you as a competitor.
> > |> >
> > |> > According to my information New.net will add another big ISP in
> > |> > the next days to jump over 100 mil users with access before 2002.
> > |> >
> > |> > ISPs smell the cash... there is no reason for ISPs why they
> > |> > shouldn't join the New.net team. Hey, they get mo money and their
> > |> > customers get more TLDs. Sounds goog to me.
> > |> >
> > |> > Sorry,
> > |> > but as always money makes the world go round.
> > |>
> > |> No need to apologize, just to think. Is this what we want? Me selling
> > |> bad.kids and you too?
> > |>
> > |> I don't think so. I would like to go for something solid. Regulated,
> > |> but NOT a cartel.
> > |>
> > |> --
> > |> [email-masked]
> > |>
> > |> >
> > |> > cheers,
> > |> > simon
> > |> > http://nic.pro.xs2.net
> > |> >
> > |> > > Jeff, Thomas and all,
> > |> > > Tiscal has confirmed that there is a form of cooperation
> > |> with new.net.
> > |> > > _but_ following my information, there's no active
> > |> registration over the
> > |> > > Tiscali network. Furthermore a Domain resolution over
> > |> the Tiscali DNS
> > |> > > has not been confirmed yet. As far as I know, there are
> > |> no further
> > |> > > informations as the press release of new.net, which
> > |> doesn't say veray
> > |> > > much...
> > |> > > Regards,
> > |> > > Pascal
> > |> > > On 20 Dec 2001 at 13:16, Jeff Williams wrote:
> > |> > > > Thomas and all,
> > |> > > >
> > |> > > >   Thomas, thank you for this input.  It is not
> > |> unexpected of course. As
> > |> > > > has been the steady but somewhat subdued trend, the
> > |> ISP's seeking
> > |> > > > additional customers and service product offerings,
> > |> Inclusive and
> > |> > > > competitive registries/Root structures are becoming
> > |> the best avenue for
> > |> > > > both potential customer and the ISP's....
> > |> > > >
> > |> > > > Thomas Roessler wrote:
> > |> > > >
> > |> > > > > According to an item on Heise's news ticker, Tiscali
> > |> - one of the
> > |> > > > > larger European ISPs - has joined the club of those
> > |> who will add
> > |> > > > > new.net's domains.
> > |> > > > >
> > |> > > > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-20.12.01-000/
> > |> > > > > http://www.new.net/tiscali_press.tp
> > |> > > > >
> > |> > > > > There doesn't seem to be any press release on
> > |> Tiscali's web site.
> > |> > > > >
> > |> > > > > --
> > |> > > > > Thomas Roessler
> > http://log.does-not-exist.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > > > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > > > E-Mail [email-masked]
> > > > > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > > > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > > > ('unsubscribe ga' in the body of the message).
> > > > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ================================
> > > > Pascal Bernhard
> > > > cube
> > > > Geschäfte werden von Menschen gemacht...
> > > > [email-masked]
> > > > http://cube.de/
> > > > http://boroon.de/
> > > > FON: +49-6352-753725
> > > > FAX: +49-6352-753726
> > > > Mail: Im See 3 - 67295 Bolanden
> > > > --
> > > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > > ('unsubscribe ga' in the body of the message).
> > > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email-masked]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email-masked]

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:37:42 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Please comment Candidate Roessler

On the day nominations close, with out announcement to the General list
Candidate Roessler files the below three nominations.

Seemingly refuses to answer any questions on the GA list, and has
publicly stated he cannot work with all of the GA members.

http://dnso.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga-nominations/Arc05/

2001 Dec 21
    [ga-nominations] GA Chair Nomination Thomas Roessler/Fausset
    [ga-nominations] GA Chair Nomination Thomas Roessler/Gaetano
    [ga-nominations] GA Chair Nomination Thomas Roessler/Swensen

Well this looks really bad to the real world.

Has the Cabal behind the scenes and in the Watchdog committee already
decided the Roessler is the next chair and he his nominating these 
three as people that he can work with?  And he is so silent about it.

Is this how we now do things in the GA?

Sincerely,
Eric
- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:41:19 -0800
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscal i

|> From: Marc Schneiders [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:48 PM
|> 
|> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, at 15:36 [=GMT-0800], Roeland Meyer wrote:
|> 
|> > If you think about it, this is obviously what ICANN wants.
|> > As the main dog in the manger, keeping all other 
|> > cooperative/collective solutions suppressed, the cartel 
|> > approach is the only way left to route around them.
|> > 
|> > The ICANN is either too stupid for words or they are 
|> > cunningly manipulating the internet into a cartel-only 
|> > existance. I don't see a middle-ground interpretation of 
|> > their actions. Maybe my imagination is lacking?
|> 
|> I think your imigination is quite acurate. Unfortunately. 
|> This doesn't mean I have to like the solution of new.net, 
|> or any other counter cartel. 
|> 
|> ICANN may be a cartel (and mainly it is, I think). That doesn't 
|> mean that the way out is a competitor that does not 'talk' with 
|> it. 

I am sure that you are aware of the classic strategy problem of the
"prisoner's dilemma"? Further, that the only consistantly winning strategy
possible is, "tit-for tat"?

There are other principles that I have learned decades ago; Always make sure
that all players have an equal amount of skin in any game you are playing.
Never depend on a competitor's good will. Make sure that any betrayal costs
more than cooperation. Never risk more than you can afford to lose and never
risk a larger percentage of your assets than the other other guy will risk.
Never negotiate with dishonest people and don't play if you can't afford it.

When your opponent won't engage you then the only alternative is to play
"chicken" and see who blinks first. This means that you have to have good
cards face-up, excellent hole cards, and enough cash to stay with the raises
(seven-card stud poker). In business, this usually means "shut up and play"
or "go home". 

|> Yes, I know that the breaking down of Telco monopolies 
|> (I only know about here, Holland) was not easy, but at least 
|> it did not turn into a _mess_. new.net etc means a mess, as 
|> you know. I have seen your efforts to repair this mess on a 
|> technical DNS level, and I appreciate your ideas. But this is 
|> not the way for 'users'.

It may not be, but ICANN is not leaving many choices. The telcos were, at
least, reasonable, in comparison. They had to answer to stockholders and
lived by rules that everyone could understand. The ICANN answers to no one.
There are no stockholders and no investors. The donors that they do have, do
not care for the Internet industry and would rather it dry up and blow away.
That is, those that don't want to own it all. The advisors that the ICANN
does seem to listen to are largely socialist totalitarians with delusions of
power and arrogant tendencies. They patronize everyone else, of note, and
flatly ignore the rest. They are dishonest and corrupt. They move goals at
will and rewrite or ignore their own bylaws with no visible compunction. We
have two years of track-record to prove all of the above (how many board
squatters are there?)

|> We should avoid a mess, really, not because it would not be fun, it
|> would be.

In answer, let me attach something my brother sent me, shortly after
11Sep01;

|> From: MIKE MEYER
|> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 7:23 AM

|> What to do if you happen upon a peace rally by 
|> stupid naive peace advocates, to teach them why 
|> force is sometimes needed:
|> 
|> 1) Approach peace advocate talking about "peace" 
|>    and saying there should be, "no retaliation."
|> 
|> 2) Engage in brief conversation, ask if military 
|>    force is appropriate.
|> 
|> 3) When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
|> 
|> 4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, 
|>    "Because that would just cause more innocent 
|>    deaths, which would be awful and we should not 
|>    cause more violence."
|> 
|> 5) When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the 
|>    face as hard as you can.
|> 
|> 6) When he gets back up to punch you, point out 
|>    that it would be a mistake and contrary to his 
|>    values to strike you, because that would, "be 
|>    awful and he should not cause more violence.
|> 
|> 7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not 
|>    to commit additional violence.
|> 
|> 8) Punch him in the face again, harder this time.
|> 
|> Repeat steps 5 through 8 until they understand that 
|> sometimes it is necessary to punch back.

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:48:10 -0800
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Please comment Candidate Roessler

No, this is what happens when the deck is so stacked that the other players
don't see the point in playing anymore.

|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Eric Dierker [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:38 PM
|> To: 'Jefsey Morfin'; [email-masked]; Kristy McKee; Bret 
|> Fausett; Svensson,
|> Alexander; GA, Roberto; Auerbach, Karl
|> Subject: [ga] Please comment Candidate Roessler
|> Importance: High
|> 
|> 
|> On the day nominations close, with out announcement to the 
|> General list
|> Candidate Roessler files the below three nominations.
|> 
|> Seemingly refuses to answer any questions on the GA list, and has
|> publicly stated he cannot work with all of the GA members.
|> 
|> http://dnso.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga-nominations/Arc05/
|> 
|> 2001 Dec 21
|>     [ga-nominations] GA Chair Nomination Thomas Roessler/Fausset
|>     [ga-nominations] GA Chair Nomination Thomas Roessler/Gaetano
|>     [ga-nominations] GA Chair Nomination Thomas Roessler/Swensen
|> 
|> Well this looks really bad to the real world.
|> 
|> Has the Cabal behind the scenes and in the Watchdog committee already
|> decided the Roessler is the next chair and he his nominating these 
|> three as people that he can work with?  And he is so silent about it.
|> 
|> Is this how we now do things in the GA?
|> 
|> Sincerely,
|> Eric
|> --
|> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
|> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
|> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
|> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
|> 
- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

End of GA-DIGEST V1 #935
************************