Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #871
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Saturday, November 24 2001         Volume 01 : Number 871

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:28:41 -0400
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] DNSO Constituency Structure

on 11/23/01 7:20 PM, Eric Dierker at [email-masked] wrote:

> Comments in sequence;
> 
> You and Bill rock.
> 
> Joanna Lane wrote:
>> 
>> Eric,
>> 
>> The process relies on a proactive role being taken by one individual, which
>> Best Practices (BP) delegates to non-partisan GA Secretariat Office, whose
>> job it is to assist interested members in moving a Suggestion forward on a
>> step by step basis through a series of procedures, whereby the whole GA
>> ultimately arrives at a fully documented consensus position on an Issue.
>> While the GA does not currently have its own secretariat office, there is
>> nothing to stop you taking on this responsibility yourself with respect to
>> oversight of this particular Issue, the only condition being that you do not
>> hold a strong position on the Issue, since it will be your responsibility to
>> administer the process in a fair and even handed manner.
>> 
> 
> So at first I say, "shouldn't this be the Chair or Alt Chair job".  But
> then I see
> wisdom.  For myriad of reasons this should be a separate function.
> (Chief Protocol Officer, Parliamentarian, even sometimes Sergeant at
> Arms,
> and quite often secretary)  I am getting it.

Where I come from, this role is called "The Speaker", being the person who
calls "Order" when things get out of hand and "Recognizes" those whose turn
it is to speak to the Assembly - it's a procedural role that is completely
different from that of a Chair, who is elected to determine the focus of the
assembly on the overall agenda on which the Assembly must work while it is
in session, and who has the power to introduce emergency sessions into that
agenda should something unforeseen arise. This is where the GA has been
going wrong, expecting the Chair to determine both the agenda and administer
the procedure, something that only works in small group situations where the
agenda is already known, such as Councils and Committees.

For a role model, check out Betty Boothroyd, who was very outspoken and
highly regarded by not only her own party, but also by the opposition.

Regards,
Joanna

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:33:51 -0400
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign - US shuts down Somalia	internet

Subject: BBC News  AFRICA  US shuts down Somalia internet
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1672000/1672220.stm

US shuts down Somalia internet.

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:26:43 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: DNSO Constituency Structure

At 15:55 23/11/01 -0500, Sandy Harris wrote:

>Here you cannot tell who anyone represents. Some have credible claims
>based on elections, e.g. Karl, but those elections can certainly be
>criticised. Other claims are far more nebulous. Does Joop speak for
>domain name owners? Danny for dot commoners? Jeff for thousands of
>people? Others for their companies, or industries, or parts of the
>domain business?

Sandy,

You are quite right. None of these people, myself included, can make any 
such claims credibly untill they can demonstrate a transparant structure 
and a credible  process via which they have been elected or selected with a 
mandate to speak.

In the meantime, we will have to judge what they say on the merits of the 
arguments only.

- --Joop

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:11:08 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: DNSO Constituency Structure

At 08:06 23/11/01 -0800, Patrick Greenwell wrote:

>Whenever I hear the word consensus now even outside of the confines of ICANNs
>little world I cringe.

No kidding.

>We would be best served by establishing a set of workable voting
>systems/processes, doing away with the lie of "consensus" that has
>permeated ICANN as well as the constant gerrymandering the occurs on a
>daily basis dedicated to keeping people *out* rather than bringing them
>in.

If ICANN or DNSO decisionmaking would be on the basis of one-(wo)man, 
one-vote there would be an urgent need for safety-in -numbers.

The current number of participants is not nearly enough to prevent a quick 
member recruitment and capture by, say , the deep pocketed IP lobby.

This is where the original idea of a healthy At Large membership of several 
hundred thousand comes in.

- --Joop

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:49:36 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: DNSO Constituency Structure

Joop and all assembly members,

Joop Teernstra wrote:

> At 08:06 23/11/01 -0800, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
>
> >Whenever I hear the word consensus now even outside of the confines of ICANNs
> >little world I cringe.
>
> No kidding.
>
> >We would be best served by establishing a set of workable voting
> >systems/processes, doing away with the lie of "consensus" that has
> >permeated ICANN as well as the constant gerrymandering the occurs on a
> >daily basis dedicated to keeping people *out* rather than bringing them
> >in.
>
> If ICANN or DNSO decisionmaking would be on the basis of one-(wo)man,
> one-vote there would be an urgent need for safety-in -numbers.

  Indeed.  But possibly this is not a bad thing.  If interested parties
and stakeholders were not actively blocked from participation as is
being done correctly the participation from all types of stakeholders
would be much greater.  As we all know, the stakeholders/usres
are by far the largest group.  Hence they would if allowed to
participate openly and fairly in the DNSO GA or any of the
other constituencies to which they fit (Thinking of the Jefsey vs Kent
Krispin dilemma in the BC and the Noncom) there would be the
accurate and honest balance.  Ergo INEGroup members and/or
Erics "Dotcommers" would have a voice and a vote and a proper
representation in line with the MoU and the White Paper would
or at least could be eventually established.

>
>
> The current number of participants is not nearly enough to prevent a quick
> member recruitment and capture by, say , the deep pocketed IP lobby.

  Well we {INEGroup] are also fairly Deep pocketed as well.  However
our members have been actively blocked from participation especially
in the GA as well as to a lesser degree in the constituencies.  Now
sense the ALSC Final Report it would seem that the ICANN BoD
and staff have the opinion that a proposed "ALSO" would not include
Stakeholders/usres or non-domain Name holders.  This is skewed
in the extreme in a direction that is not representative of the stakeholder
community or the Internet community.

>
>
> This is where the original idea of a healthy At Large membership of several
> hundred thousand comes in.

  Not just several hundred thousand.  But open to any and all stakeholders...

>
>
> --Joop
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:00:39 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign - US shuts down Somalia	internet

Joanna and all assembly members,

  Thank you Joanna for passing this along.

  It is our members opinion that these sort of actions should have been
taken some time ago.  We requested it and suggested this sort of action
be taken against any country that sponsers terrorism outwardly such
as Somalia, Iraq, Lybia, ect...  It would seem that ICANN
should have taken some action or recommended to the DOC/NTIA
this sort of action.  However they failed to do so.

  What is also interesting in this article it that it seems AT&T
was providing Somalia's abilities for these two Internet companies.
Perhaps Marilyn Cade and the BC were reluctant to come out
in front long before now on this concern?

Joanna Lane wrote:

> Subject: BBC News  AFRICA  US shuts down Somalia internet
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1672000/1672220.stm
>
> US shuts down Somalia internet.
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:06:45 -0800
From: William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign - US shuts down Somalia internet

Friday, Friday, November 23, 2001, 4:33:51 PM, Joanna Lane wrote:

> Subject: BBC News  AFRICA  US shuts down Somalia internet
 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1672000/1672220.stm

> US shuts down Somalia internet.

Let's get it right.

The US and its allies froze the assets of companies which have been
funnelling money to terrorist organizations and cells, and 2 of those
companies were involved in telecommunications/internet services in
Somalia, and find themselves unable to operate as a result.

One thing that is a reality in any kind of war, innocents, guilty of
nothing but fate, will be inconvenienced, hurt, even killed.  You do
everything you can to minimize that, but there are times when the
effects of not taking an action are graver than the side effects of
that action.

I'm sure that, in the long run, the country will benefit from the
opportunity now available for organizations/companies who are not tied
to terrorism related organizations or activities to come in and setup
non-corrupt services and infrastructure.

- -- 
Best regards,
William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
- --
Webcertificates.info
SSL Certificates for resellers from $49ea

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:21:10 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign - US shuts down Somalia internet

WXW and all assembly members,

William X Walsh wrote:

> Friday, Friday, November 23, 2001, 4:33:51 PM, Joanna Lane wrote:
>
> > Subject: BBC News  AFRICA  US shuts down Somalia internet
>
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1672000/1672220.stm
>
> > US shuts down Somalia internet.
>
> Let's get it right.
>
> The US and its allies froze the assets of companies which have been
> funnelling money to terrorist organizations and cells, and 2 of those
> companies were involved in telecommunications/internet services in
> Somalia, and find themselves unable to operate as a result.

  Yeah, and that is effectively shutting them down.  Also telecom
services have been cut off entirely.

>
>
> One thing that is a reality in any kind of war, innocents, guilty of
> nothing but fate, will be inconvenienced, hurt, even killed.

  How true.  But if they don't support such a situation in their
country they should rise up and put and end to it.

>  You do
> everything you can to minimize that, but there are times when the
> effects of not taking an action are graver than the side effects of
> that action.

  Yes and this is long past due in this instance.

>
>
> I'm sure that, in the long run, the country will benefit from the
> opportunity now available for organizations/companies who are not tied
> to terrorism related organizations or activities to come in and setup
> non-corrupt services and infrastructure.

  Not likely in the near term.  Until or unless this country's politics
and association change dramatically no one with any common sense
will bother dealing with them.  If they do, then the US armed services
shall be the next step a la Afghanistan.  And when my boys are finished
there not only be a shut down, there will be no telecom of internet
infrastructure in existence.  It shall be destroyed.

>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
> --
> Webcertificates.info
> SSL Certificates for resellers from $49ea
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 23:54:35 -0400
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign - US shuts down	Somalia internet

on 11/23/01 10:06 PM, William X Walsh at [email-masked] wrote:

> Friday, Friday, November 23, 2001, 4:33:51 PM, Joanna Lane wrote:
> 
>> Subject: BBC News  AFRICA  US shuts down Somalia internet
> 
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1672000/1672220.stm
> 
>> US shuts down Somalia internet.
> 
> Let's get it right.
> 
> The US and its allies froze the assets of companies which have been
> funnelling money to terrorist organizations and cells, and 2 of those
> companies were involved in telecommunications/internet services in
> Somalia, and find themselves unable to operate as a result.
> 
> One thing that is a reality in any kind of war, innocents, guilty of
> nothing but fate, will be inconvenienced, hurt, even killed.  You do
> everything you can to minimize that, but there are times when the
> effects of not taking an action are graver than the side effects of
> that action.
> 
> I'm sure that, in the long run, the country will benefit from the
> opportunity now available for organizations/companies who are not tied
> to terrorism related organizations or activities to come in and setup
> non-corrupt services and infrastructure.

Then you would have no objection to the US cutting ties with any other
corporation tied to terrorism related organizations and activities. In which
case, look no further than VeriSign, Network Solutions and ICANN. These
pillars of our community are amongst those building a fine reputation for
services and infrastructure tied to terrorism related organizations.

Check out www.palestine-info.net, Registrar: Network Solutions. Don't forget
to stop by the "Glory Record" at: www.palestine-info.com/hamas/glory. Using
the pseudonym Ziyad Sadaqa, Ziyad Khalil registered as the administrative
and billing contact for www.palestine-info.net, a multilingual site
supporting Hamas. Hamas appears on the U.S. State Department's list of
foreign terrorist organizations. Just when Khalil began working for a bin
Laden associate has never been disclosed. But by 1996, al Qaeda had a need
for him. http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accfd88.919,.html

WHOIS information for palestine-info.com:
Registrar:     NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
       
Organization:     palestinian information center
address:     Beruit
      ,       LB
       
Admin contact:     Sadaqa, Ziyad
email:     [email-masked]
phone:     407 7190460
fax: 
       
Tech contact:     Administration
email:     [email-masked]
phone:     630 3578545
fax:     630 3578545
       
Nameservers:     ns.host4u.net
ns2.host4u.net

And if you're thinking of buying from ICANN accredited Registrar
www.Domaininfo.com, you might like to know they are the Registrar for the
Iraqi State owed URULINK.NET, which is running the Iraq satellite TV channel
at Iraqtv.ws. Domaininfo.com also boasts doing business with Aghanistan.

Registrar:domaininfo.com
Domain Name: uruklink.net

[Owner of domain]
osama khalid
27 april street
baghdad,  0000
IQ

[Administrative contact]
khalid, osama [email-masked]
+964 1 5372494
Fax: +964 1 5434731
27 april street
0000 baghdad
IQ

[Technical contact]
khalid, osama [email-masked]
+964 1 5372494 Fax: +964 1 5434731
27 april street
0000 baghdad
IQ

[Zone contact]
khalid, osama [email-masked]
+964 1 5372494 Fax: +964 1 5434731
27 april street
0000 baghdad
IQ

Record created: 29 May 2000
Record last changed: 22 Nov 2001
Domain expires: 29 May 2005

Primary name server:   nic5.uruklink.net (64.152.46.1)
Secondary name server: nic6.uruklink.net (64.152.46.2)
The previous information has been obtained either directly from the
registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions.
Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or
completeness.

Since these Registrars paid a proportion of the Registration fees into
VeriSign's coffers for the privilege of being entered into the Registry for
the ICANN root, that puts both ICANN and VeriSign firmly in the frame for
actively promoting infrastructure that directly benefits terrorism.

Regards,

Joanna

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:29:09 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Outreach - status Report?  Attn Eric Dierker.

Eric and all assembly members,

  I would like to request a update detailed report of the progress
on the progress on the outreach for the DNSO GA to which
our fellow assembly member Eric Dierker should have ready for us.
Eric, can you please provide a report showing some detail?

  Thank you in advance for your cooperation?

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:33:42 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] GA Funding - Update status report?  Attn. Eric Dierker

Eric and all assembly members,

  As of severa weeks ago now, Eric Dierker has been the
lead person for DNSO GA funding.  I would like to request
a report as to what the status of the DNSO GA funding is
and what plan or further efforts is in process as to providing
funding for the DNSO GA.

  Eric, Can you please provide us with your progress has
been and a brief report showing some detail as to where the
funding is at for the DNSO GA?

  Thank you in advance for your cooperation in advance.  >:)

Kindest Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:14:00 -0800
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] RE: DNSO Constituency Structure

Sorry, I represent MHSC, period.

- --
R O E L A N D  M J  M E Y E R
Managing Director
Morgan Hill Software Company
tel: +1 925 373 3954
cel: +1 925 352 3615
fax: +1 925 373 9781 
http://www.mhsc.com

|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Joop Teernstra [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 4:27 PM
|> To: Sandy Harris
|> Cc: [ga]
|> Subject: Re: [ga] RE: DNSO Constituency Structure
|> 
|> 
|> At 15:55 23/11/01 -0500, Sandy Harris wrote:
|> 
|> >Here you cannot tell who anyone represents. Some have 
|> credible claims
|> >based on elections, e.g. Karl, but those elections can certainly be
|> >criticised. Other claims are far more nebulous. Does Joop speak for
|> >domain name owners? Danny for dot commoners? Jeff for thousands of
|> >people? Others for their companies, or industries, or parts of the
|> >domain business?
|> 
|> Sandy,
|> 
|> You are quite right. None of these people, myself included, 
|> can make any 
|> such claims credibly untill they can demonstrate a 
|> transparant structure 
|> and a credible  process via which they have been elected or 
|> selected with a 
|> mandate to speak.
|> 
|> In the meantime, we will have to judge what they say on the 
|> merits of the 
|> arguments only.
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> --Joop
|> 
|> --
|> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
|> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
|> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
|> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
|> 
- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:53:56 +1100
From: "Patrick Corliss" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 23:54:35 -0400, Joanna Lane wrote:

> Check out www.palestine-info.net, Registrar: Network Solutions. Don't
forget
> to stop by the "Glory Record" at: www.palestine-info.com/hamas/glory.
Using
> the pseudonym Ziyad Sadaqa, Ziyad Khalil registered as the administrative
> and billing contact for www.palestine-info.net, a multilingual site
> supporting Hamas. Hamas appears on the U.S. State Department's list of
> foreign terrorist organizations. Just when Khalil began working for a bin
> Laden associate has never been disclosed. But by 1996, al Qaeda had a need
> for him.
http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accfd88.919,.html

Hi Joanna

The Middle Eastern question is one of the most troubling in the world today.
There are claims and counter claims on both sides.  A reasonably impartial
account can be found at:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107652.html

A most detailed analysis (critical of everybody involved) can also be found
at:

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Palestine.asp

These issues are subtle and complex.  It is therefore advisable that we
focus on ICANN's role in complying with the relevant legal requirements and
avoid the temptation to discuss the underlying geopolitical issues.

Your point about domain names is well taken but I'd suggest that the General
Assembly retain its focus on the DNS and not get carried away into
diversionary issues most appropriately dealt with in other forums.

Regards
Patrick Corliss

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:18:58 +1100
From: "Patrick Corliss" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] DNSO Constituency Structure

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:55:00 -0500, Sandy Harris wrote:

> There is, as far as I can see, no reason to imagine that something
> that achieves a majority in the GA has broad support among users
> or any other relevant group.

Exactly.  Whilst I take Joanna's point about process, I am sure that the
structure influences the process.  It's a bit like the British adversarial
system of law where the system of pitting of one party against another
inevitably influences the legal processes of challenge and cross
examination.

Which is why I proposed that the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO) and
the Protocol Supporting Organisation (PSO) be merged together.  That would
lift the status of the DNSO from a third to a half share of the power
structure.

I note that nobody has argued against that course of action !!

Anyone?

Regards
Patrick Corliss

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:50:00 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign

Patrick and all assembly members,

Patrick Corliss wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 23:54:35 -0400, Joanna Lane wrote:
>
> > Check out www.palestine-info.net, Registrar: Network Solutions. Don't
> forget
> > to stop by the "Glory Record" at: www.palestine-info.com/hamas/glory.
> Using
> > the pseudonym Ziyad Sadaqa, Ziyad Khalil registered as the administrative
> > and billing contact for www.palestine-info.net, a multilingual site
> > supporting Hamas. Hamas appears on the U.S. State Department's list of
> > foreign terrorist organizations. Just when Khalil began working for a bin
> > Laden associate has never been disclosed. But by 1996, al Qaeda had a need
> > for him.
> http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accfd88.919,.html
>
> Hi Joanna
>
> The Middle Eastern question is one of the most troubling in the world today.
> There are claims and counter claims on both sides.  A reasonably impartial
> account can be found at:
>
> http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107652.html
>
> A most detailed analysis (critical of everybody involved) can also be found
> at:
>
> http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Palestine.asp

  Good references.

>
>
> These issues are subtle and complex.  It is therefore advisable that we
> focus on ICANN's role in complying with the relevant legal requirements and
> avoid the temptation to discuss the underlying geopolitical issues.

  Agreed.  Therefore in that these states sponsor terrorism they pose
an definite if not ongoing threat to the stibility of the internet and
therefore the DNS.  As such than, they should be de-listed
and the Domain names providing or harboring such, should be
put on hold until or unless they can correct their practices
of various sorts.

>
>
> Your point about domain names is well taken but I'd suggest that the General
> Assembly retain its focus on the DNS and not get carried away into
> diversionary issues most appropriately dealt with in other forums.

  Also agreed to a point here as well.  That point being as much as
I stated/outlined above.  Hence the GA, and especially every
american or other countrymen that are truly concerned and
vigilant regarding these terrorist states with Domain Names
that are used for illicit purposes that pose a threat  to the
stability in any way to the DNS, must be dealt with.  A policy
from the GA would be a wise and forthright method of
dealing with such situations.

>
>
> Regards
> Patrick Corliss
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:54:23 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] DNSO Constituency Structure

Patrick and all assembly members,

  I think to follow along with you idea here that it would be better
to merge the ASO and the DNSO rather than the PSO and the
ASO as the DNSO and the ASO are more closely aligned
from a function standpoint.

Patrick Corliss wrote:

> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:55:00 -0500, Sandy Harris wrote:
>
> > There is, as far as I can see, no reason to imagine that something
> > that achieves a majority in the GA has broad support among users
> > or any other relevant group.
>
> Exactly.  Whilst I take Joanna's point about process, I am sure that the
> structure influences the process.  It's a bit like the British adversarial
> system of law where the system of pitting of one party against another
> inevitably influences the legal processes of challenge and cross
> examination.
>
> Which is why I proposed that the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO) and
> the Protocol Supporting Organisation (PSO) be merged together.  That would
> lift the status of the DNSO from a third to a half share of the power
> structure.
>
> I note that nobody has argued against that course of action !!
>
> Anyone?
>
> Regards
> Patrick Corliss
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 01:49:08 +1100
From: "Patrick Corliss" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Starting From The Top -- The Supporting Organisations

On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:54:23 -0800, Jeff Williams wrote:

> I think to follow along with you idea here that it would be better
> to merge the ASO and the DNSO rather than the PSO and the
> ASO as the DNSO and the ASO are more closely aligned
> from a function standpoint.

Hi Jeff

Thank you for you input.  According to the ICANN website, the three SOs are:

1. The Address Supporting Organization (ASO) is concerned with the system of
IP addresses, such as 128.9.128.127, that uniquely identify the Internet's
networked computers.

2. The Domain Name Supporting Organization (DNSO) is concerned with the
domain name system (DNS), the system of names commonly used to identify
Internet locations and resources.  The DNS translates
heirarchically-structured, easy-to-remember names (like www.icann.org) into
IP addresses that have been assigned to specific computers.

3. The Protocol Supporting Organization (PSO) is concerned with the
assignment of unique parameters for Internet protocols, the technical
standards that let computers exchange information and manage communications
over the Internet.

I have checked out the ASO website at http://www.aso.icann.org/ and find
that it is very light on detail.  Most of the work seems to be done by the
Regional Internet Registries (RIRs).  In particular the ASO mailing lists
have almost no input to speak of.

There are a few policy guidelines at http://www.aso.icann.org/docs/ but some
of these are outdated.  Others simply link back to ARIN or ICANN websites.

The only items of real value on the ASO website, it seems to me, are this
year's 10 Address Council Teleconference meetings at
http://www.aso.icann.org/meetings/ as follows:

3 January        7 February    9 May              6 June         27 June
11 July          5 September    3 October        7 November     5 December

Of these, only the first seven have links to minutes or similar content.
Browsing through the meeting for 5 September 2001 gives some interesting
discussion points.  No action seems to have been taken on those relating to
the WHOIS survey.

http://www.aso.icann.org/meetings/ac/ac-20010905.html

The last section, marked "AOB" says the following:

<quote>
"RB is concerned about the number of new Support Organisation
propositions, e.g ccTLD SO, non-commercial SO, commercial SO,
technical SO

BR clarifies that the only active proposal is the ccTLD SO.  She
believe the AC does not have a position on this at this moment.  There
is not much that could be done right now apart from participating in
the meetings to keep informed.  The real issue arises if it would be
decided to re-constitute the ICANN Board. At that point in time the
ASO can get involved.

HPH understands RBs concern. This trend could reduce the importance of
the ASO and PSO. The DNSO was one 3rd of the ICANN structure. If the
DNSO splits into equally important parts, the addressing community
must be concerned about being marginalised.

JC mentions that there are currently a number of proposals on the
table how to fix the DNSO and how to re-constitute the ICANN
Board. None of them have been discussed publicly yet.

BR thinks it would be premature for the AC to comment and to raise the
concern that the ASO may be underrepresented until it is clear that
this is really the case."
<end quote>

Of course, one major aspect of the role of the Address Council is the
appointment of three Directors to the ICANN Board of Directors.  At present
they seem to be:

*    Dr Sang Hyun Kyong,  Asia Pacific, October 2000 30 September 2003
*    Rob Blokzijl,  Europe,  October 1999 30 September 2002
*    Lyman Chapin, Americas, October 2001 to September 2004

From their documentation it seems that there is a significant input to the
ICANN process but little or no public discussion.  The ASO also seems quite
focused on RFCs which shows that they relate quite well to the Protocol
Supporting Organisation (PSO).

Best regards
Patrick Corliss

- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

End of GA-DIGEST V1 #871
************************