Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #863
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Wednesday, November 21 2001         Volume 01 : Number 863

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:51:31 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] GA overview of Constituencies?

Great question isn't it?

If not us then who?

Do we have an acknowledgment of our submitted and ratified motion?
(Mr. Farrar's note and Danny's responses at MDR are non satisfactory)

If we continue to be continually ignored let us use one of our sublists
to build a press data base.

Each subsequent post include the entire list of links by the previous
post.  So that all we need do is
hit the past most recent post and we will get maximum press posting for
each or our posts.

Maybe it needs to be in the address section to make it easier.

Comments?

Eric

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:56:49 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Motion and request for amendment

Eric and all assembly members,

  Eric, you may wish to change the wording this motion slightly.
The "Green Paper" was superceeded by the White Paper.
The "Green Paper" is not related to the now constituted
ICANN as it is currently constituted.  Perhaps you meant
to use the MoU, which is the relevant document.

  In addition the IDNO is not ready to step in for the BC presently
and is not likely to be in the near term.  I hope it shall be however
by Ghana.

Eric Dierker wrote:

> I Eric Dierker, being a member of the GA of ICANN, hereby make motion
> that the GA agree, reach consensus and evidence by a vote, formal or
> otherwise, that the BC (business constituency within the DNSO of ICANN)
> is currently acting in direct contravention of the Green Papers the
> White Papers, all and amended contracts with the DoC (department of
> commerce of the US gov), contracts with primary service providers and
> with it's by-laws and Articles of Incorporation's.  The BC is acting in
> contradiction to the local (california) incorporation restrictions
> against unreasonable discrimination not rationally related to a
> legitimate purpose.  The BC is contravening US and California non-profit
> organization laws and is intentionally interfering with pre-existing and
> perspective contractual relations between ICANN and it's purported
> constituencies.
>
> Therefor in order to reduce Corporate Liability and promote accord
> within ICANN and satisfy bottoms-up, open and transparent consensus;
>
> Based upon such consensual finding the GA move the BoD of ICANN to
> revoke the charter of the BC and remand its seats to the GA until such
> time as the BoD determines other appropriate delegation of such BoD
> seats such as to the newly to be formed IDNO is appropriate.
>
> Such should be our mandate as true GA members.
>
> So moved by Eric Dierker this above reflected date.
>
> Fair enough?
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:55:07 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Constituency

Gotcha,

Jeff read the next post and then read your response to this one.

Do you support the motion?  Please do not bore us all with legalism, although
feel free to rephrase.
E

Jeff Williams wrote:

> Eric and all assembly members,
>
> Eric Dierker wrote:
>
> > Once we are in a constituency we are sworn to secrecy and loyalty to
> > that "constituency"?
>
>   Interesting question.  I would say the answers depends of the terms
> of membership of that constituency organization.  First and foremost
> everyone is and must be loyal to themselves.  After that I would say
> anything else goes depending on the individual.
>
> >
> >
> > Once Karl got on the BoD he swore and allegiance to the Corp. and not
> > his constituency?
>
>   He did?  Where is that documented or available in some written form?
>
> >
> >
> > Karl because he has no members (or stockholders to which a fiduciary
> > duty is owed)
> >
> > Constituencies because of what?
>
>   A good but very broad question.  It has if you care to review the DNSO
> GA and the NCDNHC archives, has been debated at some length.
>
> >
> >
> > Karl's I get - however legalistic- constituencies no that is BS.
> >
> > Here is what my best friend Merriam says;
>
>   Marriam who?
>
> >
> >
> >                      1 a : a body of citizens entitled to elect a
> > representative (as to a
> >                      legislative or executive position) b : the
> > residents in an electoral district
> >                      c : an electoral district
> >                      2 a : a group or body that patronizes, supports, or
> > offers
> >                      representation <creating... a grass-roots
> > constituency for continuing
> >                      the project -- Fred Reed> b : the people involved
> > in or served by an
> >                      organization (as a business or institution)
> > <regards its corporate
> >                      customers as its prime constituency.
> >
> > Karl I think you may be using a legalism to deny reality!
>
>   How so?  Can you possibly be specific?
>
> >
> >
> > Certainly the BC is way out of line and there should be a mechanism to
> > stop them.
>
>   Yes there is.  In fact several.  One direct one is for them to have their
> ICANN Constituency accreditation yanked.  That is not likely to happen
> however for many obvious and well known reasons.  Another is
> to ostracize them.  This can work if the companies that are members
> of this constituency (BC) are boycotted.  I know our [INEGroup]
> members are considering this measure as I type this.  Our [INEGroup]
> members are trying now to get in touch with the ATT BoD of directors
> as a first start.  Than ratchet it up from there...
>
> >
> >
> > Next post.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Eric
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:56:12 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Motion and request for amendment

Legalism and a Block to moving forward.

Jeff Williams wrote:

> Eric and all assembly members,
>
>   Eric, you may wish to change the wording this motion slightly.
> The "Green Paper" was superceeded by the White Paper.
> The "Green Paper" is not related to the now constituted
> ICANN as it is currently constituted.  Perhaps you meant
> to use the MoU, which is the relevant document.
>
>   In addition the IDNO is not ready to step in for the BC presently
> and is not likely to be in the near term.  I hope it shall be however
> by Ghana.
>
> Eric Dierker wrote:
>
> > I Eric Dierker, being a member of the GA of ICANN, hereby make motion
> > that the GA agree, reach consensus and evidence by a vote, formal or
> > otherwise, that the BC (business constituency within the DNSO of ICANN)
> > is currently acting in direct contravention of the Green Papers the
> > White Papers, all and amended contracts with the DoC (department of
> > commerce of the US gov), contracts with primary service providers and
> > with it's by-laws and Articles of Incorporation's.  The BC is acting in
> > contradiction to the local (california) incorporation restrictions
> > against unreasonable discrimination not rationally related to a
> > legitimate purpose.  The BC is contravening US and California non-profit
> > organization laws and is intentionally interfering with pre-existing and
> > perspective contractual relations between ICANN and it's purported
> > constituencies.
> >
> > Therefor in order to reduce Corporate Liability and promote accord
> > within ICANN and satisfy bottoms-up, open and transparent consensus;
> >
> > Based upon such consensual finding the GA move the BoD of ICANN to
> > revoke the charter of the BC and remand its seats to the GA until such
> > time as the BoD determines other appropriate delegation of such BoD
> > seats such as to the newly to be formed IDNO is appropriate.
> >
> > Such should be our mandate as true GA members.
> >
> > So moved by Eric Dierker this above reflected date.
> >
> > Fair enough?
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:15:36 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] The "mushroom treatment"....

Eric and all assembly members,

  Perhaps taking your own advice of not attacking the messenger
but rather the message is in order.  From the book of judges,
I don't remember the exact chapter # or verse # off hand:
"Judge not yet ye be judged sayith the lord"...

  Although your listed attributes are interesting, I am sure I don't believe it
in it's entirety.  "Green Paper indeed"!  You need to do much more
studying Eric.  Theologists are a dime a dozen.  Not all that impressive.
I did not see you listed in the ASA either.

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Funny your reference to the time period spent by myself;
>
> For a man who has obviously not obtained degrees in matters such as
> Philosophy and Law with equal time spent studying business and
> psychology, who has no marketing education and has no license in
> theology you presume much by criticizing my perspective on corporate
> constitutional and social matters.  I suggest that my 3,000 hours plus
> of studying your internet gives me more than license to invade your
> culture.  Especially since a good 100 of it has been spent
> researching your posts and the related subject matter.
>
> Please do not mistake my humbleness for anything less than politeness.
> Naperville deserves nothing less, as my mother was born and raised there
> I understand their moral standards to be far above your technical ones.
>
> Do not assume to battle me in matters of policy and I will let your
> technical matters go as they deserve.
>
> I would never talk to a Newbie this way but you show here why your ilk
> is no match for the NC or BS.
>
> Attack the message not the messenger.  It makes you look bad otherwise.
>
> I make this contribution to the entire group you ccd.  Because it is
> important that while you all may be higher genius than folks like I, you
> have not the genius in the human condition and fall well short of your
> mandate to take care of those of us less fortunate.  You have a
> responsibility not to act sanctimonious.  You have an obligation to act
> on our behalf and that requires consultation with those of us who know
> what that behalf is and is not.  How dare any and all of you act without
> regard to how and what we need (the user wants and needs), you make
> science
> an evil art to be endowed strictly to those who control it.
>
> {kind of harsh and a rant but take it easy and consider my quarter toned
> down, and thank all of you for your wonderful contributions}
>
> Sincerely,
> Eric
>
> Jim Fleming wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eric Dierker" <[email-masked]>
> > To: <[email-masked]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:08 PM
> > Subject: [ga] Motion and request for amendment
> >
> > > I Eric Dierker, being a member of the GA of ICANN, hereby make motion
> > > that the GA agree, reach consensus and evidence by a vote, formal or
> > > otherwise, that the BC (business constituency within the DNSO of ICANN)
> > > is currently acting in direct contravention of the Green Papers the
> > > White Papers, all and amended contracts with the DoC (department of
> > > commerce of the US gov).....
> >
> > In my opinion, you might want to study the long history that lead up
> > to the founding of ICANN. You stated at the ICANN meeting that you
> > became an Internet user 18 months ago. That may make it hard to emcompass
> > the past 7 years of history and the years before 1995, where the small
> > circle of Jon Postel's cronies systematically controlled the allocation of
> > basic Internet resources through their combined government and educational
> > institution network, aided by a small group of corporate supporters who
> > realized they could make a lot of money, for doing very little, by supporting
> > that regime. That worked as long as the general public was given the
> > "mushroom treatment" (i.e. kept in the dark and fed manure).
> >
> > Here is a sample....
> > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/11/20/interview.lynn.idg/index.html
> > "...ICANN's Lynn: No new domains anytime soon..."
> > ....
> > Q: If there are no technical impediments to adding top-level domains, would that essentially obligate you to do so?
> > A: No. We do have other responsibilities in creating a level playing field and a fair place for competition.
> > -----------------
> >
> > It all boils down to fairness.
> > Which list do you think is more fair ?
> > The "toy" IPv4 Internet Early Experimentation Allocations ?
> > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space
> > or
> > The Proof-of-Concept IPv8 Allocations ?
> > http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt
> >
> > People are now prepared to route around ICANN. Thanks to Microsoft,
> > all of the technology is in people's hands (via Windows XP) to break
> > free from the shackles of the Postel regime and to build a larger, more
> > open, and more free Internet, that all of the world's people can be proud of,
> > not just the small circle of insiders who have conspired for years to
> > control the allocation of Internet resources for their own financial gain.
> >
> > Jim Fleming
> > http://www.DOT-BIZ.com
> > http://www.in-addr.info
> > 3:219 INFO
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> --
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Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:17:01 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Motion and request for amendment

Eric and all assembly members,

  What legalism are you referring to?  I mentioned none.

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Legalism and a Block to moving forward.
>
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> > Eric and all assembly members,
> >
> >   Eric, you may wish to change the wording this motion slightly.
> > The "Green Paper" was superceeded by the White Paper.
> > The "Green Paper" is not related to the now constituted
> > ICANN as it is currently constituted.  Perhaps you meant
> > to use the MoU, which is the relevant document.
> >
> >   In addition the IDNO is not ready to step in for the BC presently
> > and is not likely to be in the near term.  I hope it shall be however
> > by Ghana.
> >
> > Eric Dierker wrote:
> >
> > > I Eric Dierker, being a member of the GA of ICANN, hereby make motion
> > > that the GA agree, reach consensus and evidence by a vote, formal or
> > > otherwise, that the BC (business constituency within the DNSO of ICANN)
> > > is currently acting in direct contravention of the Green Papers the
> > > White Papers, all and amended contracts with the DoC (department of
> > > commerce of the US gov), contracts with primary service providers and
> > > with it's by-laws and Articles of Incorporation's.  The BC is acting in
> > > contradiction to the local (california) incorporation restrictions
> > > against unreasonable discrimination not rationally related to a
> > > legitimate purpose.  The BC is contravening US and California non-profit
> > > organization laws and is intentionally interfering with pre-existing and
> > > perspective contractual relations between ICANN and it's purported
> > > constituencies.
> > >
> > > Therefor in order to reduce Corporate Liability and promote accord
> > > within ICANN and satisfy bottoms-up, open and transparent consensus;
> > >
> > > Based upon such consensual finding the GA move the BoD of ICANN to
> > > revoke the charter of the BC and remand its seats to the GA until such
> > > time as the BoD determines other appropriate delegation of such BoD
> > > seats such as to the newly to be formed IDNO is appropriate.
> > >
> > > Such should be our mandate as true GA members.
> > >
> > > So moved by Eric Dierker this above reflected date.
> > >
> > > Fair enough?
> > >
> > > --
> > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail [email-masked]
> > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:14:28 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Constituency

Eric and all assembly members,

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Gotcha,

  ?????

>
>
> Jeff read the next post and then read your response to this one.our

Ok I did that.  Your point?

  You also failed to answer my questions in my previous post (See below).
Why is that?  I answered each and every one of your questions in that
response/post.  Don't you think it is the decent thing to do to answer
my additional questions?

>

>
>
> Do you support the motion?

  Not yet.  Did you read my response to your motion?

> Please do not bore us all with legalism, although
> feel free to rephrase.

  I made one suggestion for possible rephrasing.  I made a second
to strike the IDNO as a replacement for now, until Ghana.

>
> E
>
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> > Eric and all assembly members,
> >
> > Eric Dierker wrote:
> >
> > > Once we are in a constituency we are sworn to secrecy and loyalty to
> > > that "constituency"?
> >
> >   Interesting question.  I would say the answers depends of the terms
> > of membership of that constituency organization.  First and foremost
> > everyone is and must be loyal to themselves.  After that I would say
> > anything else goes depending on the individual.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Once Karl got on the BoD he swore and allegiance to the Corp. and not
> > > his constituency?
> >
> >   He did?  Where is that documented or available in some written form?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Karl because he has no members (or stockholders to which a fiduciary
> > > duty is owed)
> > >
> > > Constituencies because of what?
> >
> >   A good but very broad question.  It has if you care to review the DNSO
> > GA and the NCDNHC archives, has been debated at some length.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Karl's I get - however legalistic- constituencies no that is BS.
> > >
> > > Here is what my best friend Merriam says;
> >
> >   Marriam who?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >                      1 a : a body of citizens entitled to elect a
> > > representative (as to a
> > >                      legislative or executive position) b : the
> > > residents in an electoral district
> > >                      c : an electoral district
> > >                      2 a : a group or body that patronizes, supports, or
> > > offers
> > >                      representation <creating... a grass-roots
> > > constituency for continuing
> > >                      the project -- Fred Reed> b : the people involved
> > > in or served by an
> > >                      organization (as a business or institution)
> > > <regards its corporate
> > >                      customers as its prime constituency.
> > >
> > > Karl I think you may be using a legalism to deny reality!
> >
> >   How so?  Can you possibly be specific?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Certainly the BC is way out of line and there should be a mechanism to
> > > stop them.
> >
> >   Yes there is.  In fact several.  One direct one is for them to have their
> > ICANN Constituency accreditation yanked.  That is not likely to happen
> > however for many obvious and well known reasons.  Another is
> > to ostracize them.  This can work if the companies that are members
> > of this constituency (BC) are boycotted.  I know our [INEGroup]
> > members are considering this measure as I type this.  Our [INEGroup]
> > members are trying now to get in touch with the ATT BoD of directors
> > as a first start.  Than ratchet it up from there...
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Next post.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Eric
> > >
> > > --
> > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail [email-masked]
> > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:50:19 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Motion and request for amendment

Jeff Williams wrote:

> Eric and all assembly members,
>
>   What legalism are you referring to?  I mentioned none.
>

again my good friend Merriam;

                     1 : an advocate or adherent of moral legalism
                     2 : one that views things from a legal standpoint; especially
: one that
                     places primary emphasis on legal principles or on the formal
structure
                     of governmental institutions

> Eric Dierker wrote:
>
> > Legalism and a Block to moving forward.
> >
> > Jeff Williams wrote:
> >
> > > Eric and all assembly members,
> > >
> > >   Eric, you may wish to change the wording this motion slightly.
> > > The "Green Paper" was superceeded by the White Paper.
> > > The "Green Paper" is not related to the now constituted
> > > ICANN as it is currently constituted.  Perhaps you meant
> > > to use the MoU, which is the relevant document.
> >

Jeff, no your are wrong here these have never been nor will they be self
exclusionary writings, they are meant to build upon each other and we encompassed
in the original agreements with the DoC.  Please visit the beautiful Ms. Rony's
site.  i do mean beautiful as she was in MDR and her wisdom of the issues clearly
decried beauty.  I was but a fly on the wall but her grasp was available to those
of us within sight.  (these are the requirements of green and white papers and
MoUs there is no doc here that declares the sole writing by and between the
parties.)

Please do not cascade and/or bootstrap legal arguments.  Keep your eye on the
ball.  What is and is not trying to be enforced?

Public policy which we have barely touched is the route of US law.

Best to you and your girls for this greatful thanksgiving.

Sincerely
Eric

> >
> > >   In addition the IDNO is not ready to step in for the BC presently
> > > and is not likely to be in the near term.  I hope it shall be however
> > > by Ghana.
> >

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:55:13 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] The "mushroom treatment"....

Your total ignorance is well placed.

If there were any political gain in worrying about your conversion I would work it.  but alas it is a wasted effort as you
bring me no constituency.

If I am wron I beg your forgiveness.  And that of your constituency.

Peace for you in this time of Ramadan!

Eric

Jeff Williams wrote:

> Eric and all assembly members,
>
>   Perhaps taking your own advice of not attacking the messenger
> but rather the message is in order.  From the book of judges,
> I don't remember the exact chapter # or verse # off hand:
> "Judge not yet ye be judged sayith the lord"...
>
>   Although your listed attributes are interesting, I am sure I don't believe it
> in it's entirety.  "Green Paper indeed"!  You need to do much more
> studying Eric.  Theologists are a dime a dozen.  Not all that impressive.
> I did not see you listed in the ASA either.
>
> Eric Dierker wrote:
>
> > Funny your reference to the time period spent by myself;
> >
> > For a man who has obviously not obtained degrees in matters such as
> > Philosophy and Law with equal time spent studying business and
> > psychology, who has no marketing education and has no license in
> > theology you presume much by criticizing my perspective on corporate
> > constitutional and social matters.  I suggest that my 3,000 hours plus
> > of studying your internet gives me more than license to invade your
> > culture.  Especially since a good 100 of it has been spent
> > researching your posts and the related subject matter.
> >
> > Please do not mistake my humbleness for anything less than politeness.
> > Naperville deserves nothing less, as my mother was born and raised there
> > I understand their moral standards to be far above your technical ones.
> >
> > Do not assume to battle me in matters of policy and I will let your
> > technical matters go as they deserve.
> >
> > I would never talk to a Newbie this way but you show here why your ilk
> > is no match for the NC or BS.
> >
> > Attack the message not the messenger.  It makes you look bad otherwise.
> >
> > I make this contribution to the entire group you ccd.  Because it is
> > important that while you all may be higher genius than folks like I, you
> > have not the genius in the human condition and fall well short of your
> > mandate to take care of those of us less fortunate.  You have a
> > responsibility not to act sanctimonious.  You have an obligation to act
> > on our behalf and that requires consultation with those of us who know
> > what that behalf is and is not.  How dare any and all of you act without
> > regard to how and what we need (the user wants and needs), you make
> > science
> > an evil art to be endowed strictly to those who control it.
> >
> > {kind of harsh and a rant but take it easy and consider my quarter toned
> > down, and thank all of you for your wonderful contributions}
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Eric
> >
> > Jim Fleming wrote:
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eric Dierker" <[email-masked]>
> > > To: <[email-masked]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:08 PM
> > > Subject: [ga] Motion and request for amendment
> > >
> > > > I Eric Dierker, being a member of the GA of ICANN, hereby make motion
> > > > that the GA agree, reach consensus and evidence by a vote, formal or
> > > > otherwise, that the BC (business constituency within the DNSO of ICANN)
> > > > is currently acting in direct contravention of the Green Papers the
> > > > White Papers, all and amended contracts with the DoC (department of
> > > > commerce of the US gov).....
> > >
> > > In my opinion, you might want to study the long history that lead up
> > > to the founding of ICANN. You stated at the ICANN meeting that you
> > > became an Internet user 18 months ago. That may make it hard to emcompass
> > > the past 7 years of history and the years before 1995, where the small
> > > circle of Jon Postel's cronies systematically controlled the allocation of
> > > basic Internet resources through their combined government and educational
> > > institution network, aided by a small group of corporate supporters who
> > > realized they could make a lot of money, for doing very little, by supporting
> > > that regime. That worked as long as the general public was given the
> > > "mushroom treatment" (i.e. kept in the dark and fed manure).
> > >
> > > Here is a sample....
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/11/20/interview.lynn.idg/index.html
> > > "...ICANN's Lynn: No new domains anytime soon..."
> > > ....
> > > Q: If there are no technical impediments to adding top-level domains, would that essentially obligate you to do so?
> > > A: No. We do have other responsibilities in creating a level playing field and a fair place for competition.
> > > -----------------
> > >
> > > It all boils down to fairness.
> > > Which list do you think is more fair ?
> > > The "toy" IPv4 Internet Early Experimentation Allocations ?
> > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space
> > > or
> > > The Proof-of-Concept IPv8 Allocations ?
> > > http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt
> > >
> > > People are now prepared to route around ICANN. Thanks to Microsoft,
> > > all of the technology is in people's hands (via Windows XP) to break
> > > free from the shackles of the Postel regime and to build a larger, more
> > > open, and more free Internet, that all of the world's people can be proud of,
> > > not just the small circle of insiders who have conspired for years to
> > > control the allocation of Internet resources for their own financial gain.
> > >
> > > Jim Fleming
> > > http://www.DOT-BIZ.com
> > > http://www.in-addr.info
> > > 3:219 INFO
> > >
> > > --
> > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > ("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
> > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
> --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:12:52 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Motion and request for amendment

Eric and all assembly members,

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> > Eric and all assembly members,
> >
> >   What legalism are you referring to?  I mentioned none.
> >

  Ah I see.  Well that is your legalism, not mine.  In addition it
isn't really applicable.  But it sounds good!  >;)

>
>
> again my good friend Merriam;
>
>                      1 : an advocate or adherent of moral legalism
>                      2 : one that views things from a legal standpoint; especially
> : one that
>                      places primary emphasis on legal principles or on the formal
> structure
>                      of governmental institutions
>
> > Eric Dierker wrote:
> >
> > > Legalism and a Block to moving forward.
> > >
> > > Jeff Williams wrote:
> > >
> > > > Eric and all assembly members,
> > > >
> > > >   Eric, you may wish to change the wording this motion slightly.
> > > > The "Green Paper" was superceeded by the White Paper.
> > > > The "Green Paper" is not related to the now constituted
> > > > ICANN as it is currently constituted.  Perhaps you meant
> > > > to use the MoU, which is the relevant document.
> > >
>
> Jeff, no your are wrong here these have never been nor will they be self
> exclusionary writings, they are meant to build upon each other and we encompassed
> in the original agreements with the DoC.  Please visit the beautiful Ms. Rony's
> site.  i do mean beautiful as she was in MDR and her wisdom of the issues clearly
> decried beauty.  I was but a fly on the wall but her grasp was available to those
> of us within sight.  (these are the requirements of green and white papers and
> MoUs there is no doc here that declares the sole writing by and between the
> parties.)
>
> Please do not cascade and/or bootstrap legal arguments.  Keep your eye on the
> ball.  What is and is not trying to be enforced?
>
> Public policy which we have barely touched is the route of US law.
>
> Best to you and your girls for this greatful thanksgiving.
>
> Sincerely
> Eric
>
> > >
> > > >   In addition the IDNO is not ready to step in for the BC presently
> > > > and is not likely to be in the near term.  I hope it shall be however
> > > > by Ghana.
> > >

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #863
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