Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #850
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Thursday, November 15 2001         Volume 01 : Number 850

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:45:51 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Apology

Sotiris and all assembly members,

  Although unneeded or unnecessary, I for one except your
apology.  >:)  Stay vigilant Sotiris!  Your a fine man and
person!

Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:

> I apologize to the list for my brutal honesty.
>
> I apologize to the List for being angry when the real issues
> are NOT being addressed and phonies and patsies are
> presenting WINDOW DRESSING for the masses to consume.
>
> I apologize to the List for not having the stomach to sit
> idly by while the Internet DNS is being hijacked right
> before our very eyes.
>
> If there's anything else I should apologize for, please feel
> free to write to your local government representative...
> especially if you live in the developing world!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sotiris Sotiropoulos
>
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:48:22 +0800
From: Joseph <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Re: ICANN MdR meeting - Good process than comes goodsubstance to: [ga]   icannworld.org

Hi,
	Although I feel the same, it would be unappropriate to do so (would it?)
unless if there is any posting rules that are being broken.  The ML, like
many other areas of the internet should perform self-censorship. We are all
adults who (should) know what we are doing. Applying conditional censorship
will cause more problems than it will rectify as the conditions to qualify
for censorship is not well defined and fuzzy/grey. Since it is subjective,
differences in agreeing to the censorship will happen. So unless if there is
a clear rule/condition being crossed, censorship should not be
applied --although I feel that individuals should seriously consider their
statements (just like observing the unwritten rule of "non-profanity" in
many places).

regards,
- - Joseph
================

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Joanna
Lane
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 6:41 AM
To: Jefsey Morfin; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: ICANN MdR meeting - Good process than comes
goodsubstance to: [ga] icannworld.org

on 11/14/01 5:08 PM, Jefsey Morfin at [email-masked] wrote:

>
> On 23:14 14/11/01, Sotiris Sotiropoulos said:
>> 4) what does Esther know that we don't?
>
> Dear Danny and Moderators,
> Before Mr. Sotiris Sotiropoulos becomes too personal about Mrs. Dyson, I
> suggest he his removed his posting privileges on this list, due to his ad
> hominem attacks everyone has suffered from enough and decency prevents me
> to quote. At least until he may cool down, return to himself and apologize
> to Mr. Dierker and to the list.
> Jefsey Morfin

It saddens me to have to say that I agree a temporary suspension of posting
privileges would seem necessary.

Regards,

Joanna

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:41:24 -0400
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign

on 11/14/01 10:28 AM, John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D. at [email-masked]
wrote:

> The relevant Libyan Sanctions Regulation are at 31 CFR 550 et seq.
> 
> [ whois.networksolutions.com ]
> 
> Registrant:
> Libya Telecom & Technology (LTTMAIL4-DOM)
> That El-Imad 3rd tower 1st floor
> Tripoli, Tripoli 91216
> LY
> 
> Domain Name: LTTMAIL.COM
> 
> Administrative Contact:
> Al-Toboly, Nasir  (NA3513)  [email-masked]
> Libya Telecom and Technology
> That El-Emad Complex, 3rd tower 1st floor
> Tripoli, Tripoli 91612
> LY
> (218) 21 3350831 (FAX) (218) 21 3350832
> 
This kind of input on the list is very welcome. I'm compiling a list of
relevant sites to forward to the BoD for attention. More please.

Regards,
Joanna
 
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> 

Regards,

Joanna

The URLs for Best Practices: DNSO Citation:
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaindex.html
(Under "Other Information Documents"; "August 2001:
Proposal for Best Practices for the DNSO GA")
Part I: 
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20010813.GA-BestPractices.html
Part II: 
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20010813.GA-BP-flowchart.pdf
(Access to the .pdf file requires installing the Adobe Acrobat
Reader, which is available for free down load at
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html.) 

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:02:15 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Outreach

Andy and all assembly members,

Andy Gardner wrote:

> At 7:32 PM -0500 14/11/01, Sandy Harris wrote:
> >Once the infrastructure for the access exists, they can get .vn
> >names at whetever price the local authority sets, or someone
> >can start selling cheap 3LD.shoeshine.vn names, or whatever.
> >
>
> Until ICANN starts forcing .vn into one-sided contracts, and the U.S.
> starts leaning on them making them submit to the UDRP via trade agreements,
> thus allowing U.S corps to strong-arm domains away from them.

  If you read the bilateral trade agreements between the US and the Republic
of Vietnam you will find that they allow for a separate UDRP for handling
disputes regarding trade, including Ecommerce.  I read that as saying
that a "Universal UDRP" does not necessarily apply.  Given that is true,
Eric is right in trying to fight for his shoeshine boys to that extent.
My problem is that his so called "no such Dotcommers", are really
no such thing and such trade agreements are really not the purview
of ICANN per se.  Ergo, ICANN mission creep.

>
>
> --
> Andrew P. Gardner
> barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
> We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
> Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
> --
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:57:24 -0400
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: ICANN MdR meeting - Good process than comes goodsubstance to: [ga]   icannworld.org

on 11/14/01 9:48 PM, Joseph at [email-masked] wrote:

<snip>
> So unless if there is
> a clear rule/condition being crossed

<snip>
> regards,
> - Joseph
> ================

Invasion of privacy in Ad hominem attack. The victim is not running for
public or political office and therefore, it is not appropriate to publish
purported details of his private life on a public mailing list, particularly
when it has not been substantiated and is accompanied by rhetoric that could
be viewed as derogatory. Mr. Dierker is entitled to ask for the offending
comments to be struck from the record and I would encourage him to do so. It
has been done before on this list for similar reasons, and in that case, the
offender was indeed suspended.

Regards,
Joanna 

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:29:01 -0500
From: "J. Scott Evans" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [nc-udrp] UDRP Questionnaire

Milton:

I recently gave a speech at a conference of trademark practitioners and gave
everyone the URL for the questionnaire.  INTA has also circulated a grass
roots mailing to its members requesting participation.

J. Scott Evans
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Milton Mueller <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: [nc-udrp] UDRP Questionnaire

> I intend to express these concerns at the
> Names Council meeting today, but for online
> participants I will do it here, also.
>
> 1. We need to do a much better job of publicizing
> the availability of this questionnaire. It is
> a call for public comment but the public
> has no idea it exists, and circulation among
> the small coterie of dnso mailing lists will
> not do the trick.
>
> The NC or ICANN should issue a news release
> that solicits public comment and makes the
> URL for it well known. There are a number of
> reporters who follow ICANN closely who will
> pick this up. It should also be highlighted
> on ICANN's home page.
>
> 2. Flaw in survey form
> On question 13, we ask "who should be
> responsible for the selection of the provider."
> The response should be a check box but
> instead is a ranking from 1 - 5. I found this
> so confusing that I was unable to answer
> the question at all. I suspect many others will
> too. But Q 13 is a crucial question.
>
> In general, our members report finding the
> survey format difficult to understand and use.
>
>
> >>> "DNSO Secretariat" <[email-masked]> 11/08/01 15:52 PM >>>
> [To: [email-masked]]
> [To: [email-masked]]
> [To: [email-masked], [email-masked]]
> _______________________________________________
>
> Please find below the url for the UDRP Review Questionnaire.
>  http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20011107.UDRP-Review-Questionnaire.html
> Please complete the questionnaire online and "submit" at the end.
> Your participation is much appreciated.
> Thank you
>
> DNSO Secretariat
>
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:22:34 -0600
From: "Kevin M. Kelly" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Apology

Jeff Williams wrote:
>
>Sotiris and all assembly members,
>
>  Although unneeded or unnecessary, I for one except your
>apology.  >:)  Stay vigilant Sotiris!  Your a fine man and
>person!
>

KISS OF DEATH! KISS OF DEATH! KISS OF DEATH!
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:28:28 +0800
From: Joseph <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Re: ICANN MdR meeting - Good process than comes goodsubstance to: [ga]   icannworld.org

Point taken. I agree with this.

P/s: Why is it that when I reply to posts from GA, the default Reply To: is
to the individual instead of the [email-masked]?  Is it me or is this normal?
I never notice this before.

regards,
- - Joseph
===============

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joanna Lane [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:57 AM
To: Joseph; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: ICANN MdR meeting - Good process than comes
goodsubstance to: [ga] icannworld.org

on 11/14/01 9:48 PM, Joseph at [email-masked] wrote:

<snip>
> So unless if there is
> a clear rule/condition being crossed

<snip>
> regards,
> - Joseph
> ================

Invasion of privacy in Ad hominem attack. The victim is not running for
public or political office and therefore, it is not appropriate to publish
purported details of his private life on a public mailing list, particularly
when it has not been substantiated and is accompanied by rhetoric that could
be viewed as derogatory. Mr. Dierker is entitled to ask for the offending
comments to be struck from the record and I would encourage him to do so. It
has been done before on this list for similar reasons, and in that case, the
offender was indeed suspended.

Regards,
Joanna

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:04:55 -0800
From: Sotiris Sotiropoulos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Outreach

Joseph wrote:

> >From Soltiris:
> >>> Frankly, I don't care if the shoeshine boys of Vietnam can't afford a
> domain name (or internet access).  There are plenty
> of people in the developed world who cannot afford either!  The trend
> towards leaning over backwards so some third world
> nation (that has most likely sucked up billions in aid packages) can have an
> equal say in something they had no equal share in developing is sheer
> lunacy.  I'm sure there are plenty of people in Vietnam with domain names
> AND internet access.  the rest will either get online when they can afford
> to, or not.  I don't see how/why the ICANN needs to address (indeed cater
> to) the needs of the Third World Internet User, when they haven't even
> looked at addressing the desires of those in the Developed World!  This is a
> sideshow designed to steal attention from the things that really matter!  I
> will not sit back and watch such a farce without speaking up about it.
> ---------------------
> *** Myself, having originating from a "developing country", felt compelled
> to speak up on this statement. While I do not believe that you should "bend
> backwark" to help developing countries, doing so will, in fact, help the
> "developed" countries itself. Asia has more people than (for example) USA 4
> (four) folds.  Economically, (for example) China is more important to the
> west today than any other economy is, as it is still "developing" (like many
> other countries in Asia).  Developing is the time when the market is new and
> economic "bounties" are plentiful and is where "developed" countries wants
> in their marketshare statistics. ICANN is global, so it must think like a
> global player.

Joseph,

With all due respect, I meant no offense against any one person or group in the
developing world.  But what EVERYONE must understand is that although the ICANN
is indeed global:

1) ICANN is/was a technical standards and coordination oversight body which has
become an Internet policy making body through mission creep.  2) ICANN is NOT an
Economic Development Forum.
3) ICANN is not the United Nations.
4) ICANN is not the World Bank or IMF or WWF.
5) ICANN has no influence on Infrastructure Development of sovereign nations.

> It has to work on BOTH the first world(?) and the third world
> at the same time.

Agreed.  But why does this mean we should focus ICANN's attention on the
Internet connectivity (or lack thereof) within a sovereign nation?

> There are merits to the "Prosper Thy Neighbour" policy as
> it will, in return prosper thyself.

ICANN is not in the business of "prospering its neighbours", only its
contractual partners.

> Also, developing countries have a
> substantial number of domain name holders.

I'm not denying this, I mention as much.

> Forgetting this and isolating
> this group of people is analoguos to "let's just cater to the rich and
> forget about the poor even though there are more poor people than rich
> people." --except that it is on a macro-level.

Nowhere do I advocate such a position.  However, if you don't own a domain name,
or you don't administer any IP assignments, or you don't have anything
whatsoever to do with INTERNET ADDRESSING what exactly IS your interest in the
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers?

> Also, developing countries does not mean that there are no "good people"
> (lesser maybe, but not zero).

I did NOT imply/state any such thing.

> There are more contents from the developing
> countries than you may have thought, mostly isolated in their own language
> and culture. There are more lines of code written by programmers from (for
> example) India than one may have thought. So, it is untrue to say that
> "<snip>...something they had no equal share in developing...<snip>".

My reference was to persons who have no domains, IP assignments, and whatever
else goes into the making/development of the Internet DNS.  There are plenty of
people in India who spent their hard-earned rupees to buy domain names and to
get connected, such people SHOULD be looked upon as equal partners.  Can you
imagine HOW a country like India could guarantee the IDENTITY of every one of
its citizens who wanted to be a voting member of ICANN, but did not have an
address of any kind?

>
>
> Please do reconsider your position.

> P/s: I am not saying that Developed countries are better nor am I saying
> that the Developing countries are better.

Neither am I.

I am saying that ICANN should stick to being ICANN and not the UN.

Most Sincerely,

Sotiris Sotiropoulos

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:51:48 -0700
From: Earl Heather <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: ICANN MdR meeting - Good process than comes good substance to: [ga]   icannworld.org

Not only necessary but long overdue.

Hard to believe that some were suggesting ...

- ---quote-----
Added to that, I would say that the qualities that we seek in our leaders
are not reflected well in unwarranted attacks on those who are doing their
best to "get it right" in difficult circumstances, and therefore, I am
throwing my support behind the cadidacy of Sotiris Sotiropoulos, and all
those who would have otherwise supported me to do the same.
- ---end quote----- 

..... just a few days ago

pheather

> on 11/14/01 5:08 PM, Jefsey Morfin at [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On 23:14 14/11/01, Sotiris Sotiropoulos said:
> >> 4) what does Esther know that we don't?
> > 
> > Dear Danny and Moderators,
> > Before Mr. Sotiris Sotiropoulos becomes too personal about Mrs. Dyson, I
> > suggest he his removed his posting privileges on this list, due to his ad
> > hominem attacks everyone has suffered from enough and decency prevents me
> > to quote. At least until he may cool down, return to himself and apologize
> > to Mr. Dierker and to the list.
> > Jefsey Morfin
>  
>  
> It saddens me to have to say that I agree a temporary suspension of posting
> privileges would seem necessary.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joanna
> 
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:58:12 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Re: Outreach

On 09:36 15/11/01 +0800, Joseph said:

>P/s: I am not saying that Developed countries are better nor am I saying
>that the Developing countries are better.  The 2 needs one another. As such,
>both parties must look after the well-being of each other.
Thank you , Joseph, for saying that.

The Internet is global. ICANN is global.  There is no Us and Them. Where an 
individual (Domain Name Owner or dotcommoner) resides has no meaning per 
se.  There are underdeveloped Individuals in the "developed world" and 
highly developed Individuals in the "developing countries".
We are all part of the same network.
We have to co-operate.
And we might as well start with showing mutual respect right here on this 
list.
Without the minimum of decorum there can be no consensus building, no 
decisionmaking.

Moderation of this list is, alas, no longer taking place, for reasons that 
Kristy has outlined so well.
This *needs* to be addressed.

- --Joop

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:24:03 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN  2000-2001 Payments to Directors

On 07:28 14/11/01 -0600, Bruce James said:

>  http://www.icann.org/financials/director-expenses-fye2001.htm
>
>             Payments to ICANN Directors

"M. Roberts US$ 65,819.00 Three Board Meetings, 28 other meetings"

28 Other meetings. All all these  outreach meetings specified somewhere?

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:21:22 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Apology

At 18:13 14/11/01 -0800, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
>I apologize to the list for my brutal honesty.

There is nothing wrong with honesty. No need to be brutal.

>I apologize to the List for being angry when the real issues
>are NOT being addressed and phonies and patsies are
>presenting WINDOW DRESSING for the masses to consume.

Posting in anger is never a good idea. I am equally angry about what I saw 
happening in MdR, but I have learned to swallow a few times or sleep on it 
before hitting the keyboard.
(except in realtime chat :))
I'm sorry , but you went the wrong way about it.  Lone individuals, even if 
grandstanders, even if mentioned by name by Esther Dyson, are not your enemy.
Character assassination taints the assassin more than the victim.

>I apologize to the List for not having the stomach to sit
>idly by while the Internet DNS is being hijacked right
>before our very eyes.

We are not idly sitting by. Organizing people is a slow and painful 
process, as you may have observed from reading the last few years of IDNO 
archives.
Without money, it needs endless patience and fortitude to build up the 
legitimacy that creates the force that *must* be listened to.

>If there's anything else I should apologize for, please feel
>free to write to your local government representative...
>especially if you live in the developing world!

This is uncalled for and negates your apology.
Please, Sotiris, have a good night's sleep and return with a unreserved 
apology.
Show that you are man enough to do what the habitual ad hominem attackers 
here cannot.

- --Joop

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:03:13 -0800
From: William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: [ga] Apology

Wednesday, Wednesday, November 14, 2001, 6:21:22 PM, Joop Teernstra wrote:

> Show that you are man enough to do what the habitual ad hominem attackers 
> here cannot.

Yes, I'm still waiting for your apologies for the numerous times you
have engaged in that.

Absent that, this is nothing but hypocritical garbage from you.

- -- 
Best regards,
William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
- --
Webcertificates.info
SSL Certificates for resellers from $49ea

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:14:14 -0600
From: Bruce James <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] ICANNWatch - UDRP survey posted

 http://www.icannwatch.com/article.php?sid=459&mode=thread&order=1

                            UDRP survey posted.....

/Bruce

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:59:09 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign

At 21:41 14/11/01 -0400, Joanna Lane wrote:

>This kind of input on the list is very welcome. I'm compiling a list of
>relevant sites to forward to the BoD for attention. More please.

For the BoD's attention?
(mission creep anyone?)

Isn't this a strictly US law enforcement issue?

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:41:18 -0400
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign

on 11/14/01 10:59 PM, Joop Teernstra at [email-masked] wrote:

> At 21:41 14/11/01 -0400, Joanna Lane wrote:
> 
>> This kind of input on the list is very welcome. I'm compiling a list of
>> relevant sites to forward to the BoD for attention. More please.
> 
> For the BoD's attention?
> (mission creep anyone?)
> 
> Isn't this a strictly US law enforcement issue?

No, it's also an ICANN issue, under Paragraph 3.7.2. of the Registrar
Accreditation Agreement: "Registrar shall abide by applicable laws and
governmental regulations". The question is, if it is necessary to comply
with Paragraph 3.7.2 to achieve ICANN Accreditation, then is this also a
requirement to maintain accreditation as well?

When this question was posed at MdR yesterday with respect to US based
Registrars, the response was along the lines that ICANN does indeed expect
it  Registrars to comply, but in their defense "It's not like these guys
register in their own names". Well, as you can see, John has good evidence
that they do....so, I repeat to all, when you come across one of these,
please let us know, on or offlist.

Regards,
Joanna  

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:46:33 -0600
From: Andy Gardner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Mr. Qaddafi Salutes Verisign

At 3:59 PM +1300 15/11/01, Joop Teernstra wrote:
>At 21:41 14/11/01 -0400, Joanna Lane wrote:
>
>>This kind of input on the list is very welcome. I'm compiling a list of
>>relevant sites to forward to the BoD for attention. More please.
>
>For the BoD's attention?
>(mission creep anyone?)
>
>Isn't this a strictly US law enforcement issue?

Ah, but it'd be a great bit of flag-waving PR for ICANN.

Don't worry about NAF completely ignoring the UDRP rules.

Don't worry about Registrars holding names to ransom in an attempt to
maintain market share.

Don't worry about reversing our mandate and handing Verisign back its
stranglehold.

Nah. Write those problems out of our contracts. Not ICANN's responsibility.

But hey! Yeah! This'll give us some brownie points with Joe Average US Citizen!

We'll be heroes!

Barf.

- -- 
Andrew P. Gardner
barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:14:54 +0800
From: Joseph <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Re: Outreach

Hi,
	I forgot to add that I am not addressing the issue but rather, the
statement.

regards,
- - Joseph
=======================
From Soltiris:
>>> Frankly, I don't care if the shoeshine boys of Vietnam can't afford a
domain name (or internet access).  There are plenty
of people in the developed world who cannot afford either!  The trend
towards leaning over backwards so some third world
nation (that has most likely sucked up billions in aid packages) can have an
equal say in something they had no equal share in developing is sheer
lunacy.  I'm sure there are plenty of people in Vietnam with domain names
AND internet access.  the rest will either get online when they can afford
to, or not.  I don't see how/why the ICANN needs to address (indeed cater
to) the needs of the Third World Internet User, when they haven't even
looked at addressing the desires of those in the Developed World!  This is a
sideshow designed to steal attention from the things that really matter!  I
will not sit back and watch such a farce without speaking up about it.
- ---------------------
*** Myself, having originating from a "developing country", felt compelled
to speak up on this statement. While I do not believe that you should "bend
backwark" to help developing countries, doing so will, in fact, help the
"developed" countries itself. Asia has more people than (for example) USA 4
(four) folds.  Economically, (for example) China is more important to the
west today than any other economy is, as it is still "developing" (like many
other countries in Asia).  Developing is the time when the market is new and
economic "bounties" are plentiful and is where "developed" countries wants
in their marketshare statistics. ICANN is global, so it must think like a
global player. It has to work on BOTH the first world(?) and the third world
at the same time. There are merits to the "Prosper Thy Neighbour" policy as
it will, in return prosper thyself. Also, developing countries have a
substantial number of domain name holders. Forgetting this and isolating
this group of people is analoguos to "let's just cater to the rich and
forget about the poor even though there are more poor people than rich
people." --except that it is on a macro-level.

Also, developing countries does not mean that there are no "good people"
(lesser maybe, but not zero). There are more contents from the developing
countries than you may have thought, mostly isolated in their own language
and culture. There are more lines of code written by programmers from (for
example) India than one may have thought. So, it is untrue to say that
"<snip>...something they had no equal share in developing...<snip>".

Please do reconsider your position.

P/s: I am not saying that Developed countries are better nor am I saying
that the Developing countries are better.  The 2 needs one another. As such,
both parties must look after the well-being of each other.

regards,
- - Joseph
=================

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Sotiris
Sotiropoulos
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:08 AM
To: Jeff Williams; ga
Subject: [ga] Re: Outreach

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Developing IT Countries need to increase domestic use of the Internet in
order to reduce shared costs of
> the infrastructure, we cannot do this through individually owned computers
for many reasons, (overuse
> being one), until we gradually increase infrastructure.

ICANN is not here to address the economic development of
developing countries.  That is not parts of its mission.

Frankly, I don't care if the shoeshine boys of Vietnam can't
afford a domain name (or internet access).  There are plenty
of people in the developed world who cannot afford either!
The trend towards leaning over backwards so some third world
nation (that has most likely sucked up billions in aid
packages) can have an equal say in something they had no
equal share in developing is sheer lunacy.  I'm sure there
are plenty of people in Vietnam with domain names AND
internet access.  the rest will either get online when they
can afford to, or not.  I don't see how/why the ICANN needs
to address (indeed cater to) the needs of the Third World
Internet User, when they haven't even looked at addressing
the desires of those in the Developed World!  This
is a sideshow designed to steal attention from the things
that really matter!  I will not sit back and watch such a
farce without speaking up about it.

Sincerely,

Sotiris Sotiropoulos
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