Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #830
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Sunday, November 4 2001           Volume 01 : Number 830

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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 16:44:57 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] Tuesday meetings (not organized by ICANN)

Posted to:  http://www.icannmembers.org/Marina_d_R_2001.html

Special Program 
Tuesday, November 13 

A series of meetings will be held immediately across the street from the 
ICANN meeting at the Best Western Jamaica Bay Inn's "Tikki Room".   This 
off-site location is made necessary by the security and space restrictions in 
force at the ICANN meeting.  

8:00-10:00 
.ORG Divestiture Working Meeting  
The meeting on .org divestiture is for people who are seriously interested in 
developing an application, or in supporting or working with organizations 
that will submit an application to become the sponsoring organization of the 
new dot ORG. The meeting is informal. 
Kilnam Chon (co-moderator) 
Milton Mueller (co-moderator) 

10:00-12:00 
Civil Society meeting on Surveillance and Privacy 
A panel discussion on recent events concerning security and reduced civil 
liberties in cyberspace. 
Toshimaru Ogura, Japanese Net workers against Surveillance Task Force (NaST) 
Bobson Wong, Digital Freedom Network (DFN) 
Sarah Andrews, Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) 
Alan Davdison, Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) 
Chris Chiu, ACLU (moderator) 

12:30-1:30 
Dialog with the At Large Directors 
Informal roundtable discussion with the five elected ALM directors. 
Lunch will be available for free beginning at noon. 
Ivan Moura-Campos 
Masanobu Katoh 
Andy Mueller-Maguhn 
Karl Auerbach 
Nii Quaynor (invited) 
Wolfgang Kleinwaechter (moderator) 

1:30-3:00 
Internet Privatization and the Newco Commitments  
Panel discussion of the privatization the DNS and the creation of "Newco" 
(what became ICANN).   
Speakers will debatge the extent to which policy commitments made in 1998 
constrain today's decisions. 
This program is still in flux.  Tentative panelists are: 
Izumi Aizu (invited; Asia) 
European Commission 
Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) 
U.S. Dept. of Commerce 
Boston Working Group 
IFWP Participant/organizer 

3:00-5:00PM 
Roundtable Working Discussion on the At Large Membership 
Speakers are invited from groups that have made comments on the ALSC 
recommendations.  The format has been left open so that we can adapt to  
developments that occur at the Sunday and Monday meetings.  
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Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 15:28:34 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Manu Pullite

On 12:17 2/11/01 -0600, Andy Gardner said:
>At 12:28 PM +1300 2/11/01, Joop Teernstra wrote:
>
> >We can't, I think. There is no option open but to soldier on,
> >meanwhile  creating our own structures for Domain Name Holders'
> >representation and prove that they are more honest and less prone to abuse
> >than ICANN's.
> >In the face of determined sabotage, that is not an easy task at all.
>
>Tell me about it. 2 years down the track after your sabotage of the
>original steering committee, and you're still trying your best to keep it
>as the JDNO.

The original Steering Committee, the few people left on it in the last 10 
days before its term expired, had no quorum and no mandate to impose any 
rules. The correct thing to do was to let the membership as a whole 
participate in the rulemaking for the election of a new Executive 
Committee.  If you call that sabotage, then it is about sabotaging a coup.

It has taken the membership a year to agree and ratify the Charter, but it 
has been done democratically and the attempt of Mr Walsh to have it 
rescinded has failed.
Make peace, stand for election, instead of forever whining about losing the 
chance to be in a perpetual First Steering Committee.
All positions are open for election shortly.

In fact all individual domain name owners here on the GA list are welcome 
to help in the rebooting process.
Sign  up at www.idno.org/join.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 20:40:23 -0800
From: William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: [ga] Manu Pullite

Friday, Friday, November 02, 2001, 6:28:34 PM, Joop Teernstra wrote:

> On 12:17 2/11/01 -0600, Andy Gardner said:
>>At 12:28 PM +1300 2/11/01, Joop Teernstra wrote:
>>
>> >We can't, I think. There is no option open but to soldier on,
>> >meanwhile  creating our own structures for Domain Name Holders'
>> >representation and prove that they are more honest and less prone to abuse
>> >than ICANN's.
>> >In the face of determined sabotage, that is not an easy task at all.
>>
>>Tell me about it. 2 years down the track after your sabotage of the
>>original steering committee, and you're still trying your best to keep it
>>as the JDNO.

> The original Steering Committee, the few people left on it in the last 10 
> days before its term expired, had no quorum and no mandate to impose any 
> rules. The correct thing to do was to let the membership as a whole 
> participate in the rulemaking for the election of a new Executive 
> Committee.  If you call that sabotage, then it is about sabotaging a coup.

Your sabotage started long before that point.  It started when the
steering committee tried to adopt rules of civil discourse for the
mailing lists that you didn't approve of, and so you not only used
your unofficial position on the steering committee mailing list to try
and obstruct the progress of those discussions, but you denied access
to the polling tools when the members moved for adoption of those
rules.

That was when people started to leave the steering committee, and the
10 you mention were half of the original steering committee and easily
2/3 of those who had ever posted even a single message to the steering
committee list, some 6 members never having joined in the steering
committee discussions.

Stop trying to rewrite history, Joop, the record doesn't bear out your
misinformation (I'll be nice and not call you a flat out liar this
time).

- -- 
Best regards,
William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Userfriendly.com Domains
- --
EFF SLAMS MAPS and similar services:
http://www.eff.org/effector/HTML/effect14.31.html#II
SafeSurf Warns Public about MAPS Censorship
http://www.safesurf.com/press/press27.htm
- --

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 00:39:01 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Manu Pullite

WXW and all assembly members,

  This feud between Joop and WXW has been ongoing for some 2 yrs
now.  It is best taken of this forum and back to the IDNO list or
better yet, off any forum altogether.  Joop and WXW, please do so
immediately.

William X Walsh wrote:

> Friday, Friday, November 02, 2001, 6:28:34 PM, Joop Teernstra wrote:
>
> > On 12:17 2/11/01 -0600, Andy Gardner said:
> >>At 12:28 PM +1300 2/11/01, Joop Teernstra wrote:
> >>
> >> >We can't, I think. There is no option open but to soldier on,
> >> >meanwhile  creating our own structures for Domain Name Holders'
> >> >representation and prove that they are more honest and less prone to abuse
> >> >than ICANN's.
> >> >In the face of determined sabotage, that is not an easy task at all.
> >>
> >>Tell me about it. 2 years down the track after your sabotage of the
> >>original steering committee, and you're still trying your best to keep it
> >>as the JDNO.
>
> > The original Steering Committee, the few people left on it in the last 10
> > days before its term expired, had no quorum and no mandate to impose any
> > rules. The correct thing to do was to let the membership as a whole
> > participate in the rulemaking for the election of a new Executive
> > Committee.  If you call that sabotage, then it is about sabotaging a coup.
>
> Your sabotage started long before that point.  It started when the
> steering committee tried to adopt rules of civil discourse for the
> mailing lists that you didn't approve of, and so you not only used
> your unofficial position on the steering committee mailing list to try
> and obstruct the progress of those discussions, but you denied access
> to the polling tools when the members moved for adoption of those
> rules.
>
> That was when people started to leave the steering committee, and the
> 10 you mention were half of the original steering committee and easily
> 2/3 of those who had ever posted even a single message to the steering
> committee list, some 6 members never having joined in the steering
> committee discussions.
>
> Stop trying to rewrite history, Joop, the record doesn't bear out your
> misinformation (I'll be nice and not call you a flat out liar this
> time).
>
> --
> Best regards,
> William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
> Userfriendly.com Domains
> --
> EFF SLAMS MAPS and similar services:
> http://www.eff.org/effector/HTML/effect14.31.html#II
> SafeSurf Warns Public about MAPS Censorship
> http://www.safesurf.com/press/press27.htm
> --
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 23:47:13 -0800 
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Manu Pulite

|> From: Jefsey Morfin [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 2:16 AM
|> 
|>          On 21:51 01/11/01, Roeland Meyer said:
|> >I would love to see some of you in MdR again, but the 
|> >current re-focusing, of the meeting, plus the fact 
|> >that any business opportunities are restricted
|> >to ICANN insiders, remove any and all benefits or 
|> >justification I can possibly make to my shareholders. 
|> >There is simply no way that I can justify
|> >the time/expense, even as market research. All visible 
|> >fruit has been plucked from the ICANN tree.
|> >
|> >Is it time to start over yet?
|> 
|> I am afraid I share that difficulty. It seems that 2001 MdR 
|> will be the most unprepared information seminar on a 
|> key matter. 

The main problem is that the ICANN meeting is being used as an informational
seminar. Aside from the fact that security is already in the MHSC core
competency inventory, there are much better security seminars available. The
reason to go to ICANN meetings is to participate in the ICANN decision
making process. That is the value-add of these meetings. MHSC doesn't need
ICANN security briefings, we could probably do a better job of that than the
ICANN can. Personally, I certainly don't feel like commenting on whatever
asinine policies such amatures can come up with, post facto. I consider that
a serious waste of time.

|> I had real problem justifying a travel to Montevideo but I 
|> got internal consensus about our interest for MdR as @large, 
|> TLDs, .org, BC opacity, ccTLDs, security are issues we invested in.
|> 
|> Now, I don't even want to rise the matter. However I know 
|> that there will be many unspoken agreements as such detrimental 
|> to us and to the Global Internet Community: do you really believe 
|> that the pending vital issues can and will really be disregarded?

Those unspoken agreements are already in place. Being there won't change
anything.

|> Manu Pulite is the only way I feel now for a split not to 
|> occur between the "ICANN Community" and the Global Internet 
|> Community.

I've been looking for "manu pulite". Could you explain?
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 16:55:38 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Security for status quo, not individuals

Upon reviewing the agenda and schedules for the MDR meet I find them
neither secure nor really having to do with security.

They seem to be vendor, political and personal agenda based.

Why would "for security reasons" there end up being two classes of
meetings  - apparently some secure and some not?

How can security issues be handled in an open and transparent bottoms up
manner?

The important thing to remember when reviewing these matters is to keep
in mind we have "social security" and we have "elitist security".  It
looks to me like the security set up in MDR is to protect our board but
to hell with participants.  I don't think that is what the man who stood
all alone in Yankee stadium to throw out the first ball has in mind.

I have yet to hear from or see a proclaimed security expert post
anything anywhere on ICANNs' sites.  Having worked in Security I find
this irresponsible and dangerous.

Either this meeting is about security which requires security or it is
not.  And if anyone suggests secrecy equals security  they are stupid.

Sincerely,
Eric
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------------------------------

End of GA-DIGEST V1 #830
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