Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #687
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Tuesday, August 21 2001           Volume 01 : Number 687

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:45:54 -0700
From: William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[6]: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

Monday, Monday, August 20, 2001, 3:59:49 AM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

> William,

>>
>> > What objection to you have against Joop receiving travel subsidy?
>>
>>That he is using the IDNO name to get it, and he has no authority to
>>do that, to use our names to get his expenses paid so he can further
>>his own agenda.

> For the record, Joop did not use the name of IDNO to receive travel subsidy.
> I have been contacted by the Salzburg Seminar, who asked whether I had any 
> names to suggest as candidate for the funding, and I suggested Joop and 
> other people that I feel would bring an added value to the meeting.
> You know that my views and Joop's views diverge about the formation of an 
> individuals/registrants constituency, but I believe that he is an essential 
> element of the picture.

> When I contacted Joop, he told me that he did not plan to apply, because he 
> had not been accepted in the past, and did not see why he would have been 
> accepted this time. It was only after my insisting on him giving another try 
> that he applied.

After your involvement, the Salzburg Seminar gave Joop the
requirements, which included the IDNO becoming a member of the NCDNHC,
thus the IDNO name WAS used as the basis for his getting the subsidy,
as they would not have required that unless he was going as the IDNO
representative.

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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:46:47 -0400
From: Sandy Harris <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Net-block issues

William X Walsh wrote:
> 
> Registries should not be involved in MAPS like operations at all.
> 
> You can't seriously be suggesting that?
> 
> MAPS is not a functionality, it is a disfunctionality, and if it is to
> exist at all, it should be managed privately.

I agree, but ...
 
> Wednesday, Wednesday, August 15, 2001, 8:38:35 AM, Roeland Meyer wrote:
> > The fundimental process disconnect here is that, IMHO, the various
> > registries should be performing the MAPS function as part of their policy
> > enforcement mechanism. This is not written into any of the
> > registrar/registry agreements.
> 
> > If anything argues for a centralised systems approach, the MAPS
> > functionality does. IMHO, this makes it an ICANN issue. Yes, this also
> > politicizes it somewhat. No, some NANOG denizens won't like it and that is
> > guaranteed.

There's an important tradition among systems administrators, that they will
deal with "abuse OF the net", but not with "abuse ON the net". I think this
is valid and worth preserving.

For example, any sane ISP has something in their terms of service agreement
that lets them disconnect spammers. They must be able to do this in order
to protect other systems' users from spam.

On the other hand, an ISP or a registry should not be acting against its
customers for anything other than direct abuse OF the network. There are
laws against libel, trademark misuse, stalking, harassment, some types of
pornography, 'hate literature', slander, software 'piracy', ... 

All these forms of abuse ON the net are better dealt with by police and
courts than by system admins. Courts have legal authority to act on these
issues, experience and expertise, protections for the accused, standards
of evidence, ... Neither ISPs nor registries have any of those.

There may be some exceptions for extremely blatant violators, where an
ISP or registry might reasonably help stop abuse, but when there is any
doubt at all, they should give their customers the benefit of that doubt. 

So, while I feel that having registries disconnect spammers is not a good
idea (mainly because I don't trust ICANN to come up with good guidelines
and NSI are themselves spammers), I do think you can make a far better
case for that than for having them try to enforce trademark restrictions.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:10:05 -0400
From: "L Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expense

First, with the time frame involved, it could well be impossible to
apply for and receive a grant for travel from any source.  

Second, $2,500.00 could be a very large hurdle for candidates.

Third, if even one candidate is left out of a f2f due to lack of
funds, it would create an imbalance and appear to favor those with
greater financial means.

Fourth, tickets purchased on short notice are much more 
expensive.

F2f is a good idea.  However, it is beyond the means of many of 
thsoe who would like to participate and should not be a barrier to a
fair election.  Either all candidates should be provided travel and
hotel, or none, IMO.  Since most business is actually done via the
lists, perhaps it should continue that way for these elections until
proper funding can be arranged for all candidates.  Furthermore, if
all candidates cannot be present in Montevideo, perhaps none of 
them
should be presented as a part of the meetings to avoid unfair
advantage.

In addition, since there are only a few candidates, perhaps ICANN
could use coach tickets and provide the same for the candidates.

Leah

On 19 Aug 2001, at 22:10, Peter de Blanc wrote:

> That is not a well thought out comment. We are only talking about a
> small amount of money here, an air ticket and some hotel. Probably
> about US $ 2,500.00
> 
> 25 persons paying $ 100 each would cover it.
> 
> In fact, I would be happy to match your donation of $ 100 each to
> the candidates who can not afford the ticket.
> 
> Peter de Blanc
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
> pheather Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:23 PM To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses
> and Election timing.
> 
> 
> So much for a level playing field for all candidates. Instead, those
> with the deepest pockets and the richest supporters are given
> advantage.
> 
> pheather
> 
> 
> > 
> > I fully expect any person seeking such assistance to organize
> their own
> > financial support, and I am confident that the necessary sources
> > of funds are out there. It is up to the candidate to identify the
> > sources
> 
> > and to ask for the money. Or at least to recruit someone or some
> > organization who supports that candidate's position and will do
> > the fund-raising for them.
> > 
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:51:06 -0700
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

The point is that there has been small local participation in such things.
Coming down from the SF Bay Area, for MdR, I spent over $3000. Analysis of
Stockholm forcated expenses yields a similar number. My larger issue is loss
of 1.5 weeks of billing, a constant for all ICANN meetings, with very
little/none probable effect on new business or positive effect on revenue.
JavaOne was more beneficial to MHSC core business then MdR, or any other
ICANN meeting.

|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Roberto Gaetano [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 8:25 AM
|> 
|> Jefsey,
|> >
|> >I would be really interested if we added all the travel 
|> expenses by ICANN
|> >meeting attendees over one year and compared with what they 
|> would have been
|> >should all the meetings have been held in MdR.
|> 
|> I understand that for you MdR could be more convenient, but 
|> probably most 
|> Uruguayans would find Montevideo less expensive....
|> Roberto
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:25:14 -0700
From: William X Walsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[6]: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

Sunday, Sunday, August 19, 2001, 10:35:34 PM, Roeland Meyer wrote:

> I thought that we declared a truce on this?

We did.  Provided certain conditions remained in place.  They are not
in place anymore apparently.

> William, you are definitely engaging in ad hominem.

No, I am sticking to the facts.  One can be critical of a person and
their actions without being accused of engaging in "ad hominen."

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:28:06 +0000
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

I am frankly appalled by the fact that before every ICANN meeting there is a 
round of comments about how inconvenient the location is, how insecure the 
country is, that the CIA does not recommend to go, and other amenities.

Anyway, I am sure that you organizers are doing a wonderful job.
As usual in your part of the world, I should add! I still remember that of 
the IFWP meetings by far the most successful was the one that some people 
did not want to take place, the one in Buenos Aires. The only one of the 
series with simultaneous interpretation in three languages, videoconference 
connection, and healthy financial situation thanks to the participation of 
the sponsors!

Regards
Roberto

>From: Raul Echeberria <[email-masked]>
>To: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
>CC: [email-masked]
>Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:24:41 -0500
>
>At 04:37 PM 20/08/01 +0200, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
>
> > But I said and will keep my word that it would be unfair to Joana and
>Eric, if they did be there too.  As you noted a trip to Montevideo is at
>least $ 2500 from Paris, probably $ 2300 from NY. I went to  shop for $
>7300. I found them. And then we considered that the money would be far
>better spent for  computers and teachers in an African school we support.
>
>Jefsey:
>
>I don't know if you travel in business class. If not, I'd be glad to help
>you to buy cheaper tickets to Uruguay.
>
>You can get a ticket from Paris by Air France to Uruguay by U$S 1300. Of
>course, in economy class.
>From NY by United Airlines by U$S 1200. Also in economy class.
>
>Also we have a broad offer of hotels with different rates and all of them
>with a good level of services.
>Probably MdR (as you say) is cheaper for you, but we can help you to have a
>cheap travel to come here.
>
>Hope to see you in Uruguay.
>
>Regards,
>
>Raul.
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:45:03 -0700
From: "William S. Lovell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Net-block issues

(See near the bottom)

Sandy Harris wrote:

> William X Walsh wrote:
> >
> > Registries should not be involved in MAPS like operations at all.
> >
> > You can't seriously be suggesting that?
> >
> > MAPS is not a functionality, it is a disfunctionality, and if it is to
> > exist at all, it should be managed privately.
>
> I agree, but ...
>
> > Wednesday, Wednesday, August 15, 2001, 8:38:35 AM, Roeland Meyer wrote:
> > > The fundimental process disconnect here is that, IMHO, the various
> > > registries should be performing the MAPS function as part of their policy
> > > enforcement mechanism. This is not written into any of the
> > > registrar/registry agreements.
> >
> > > If anything argues for a centralised systems approach, the MAPS
> > > functionality does. IMHO, this makes it an ICANN issue. Yes, this also
> > > politicizes it somewhat. No, some NANOG denizens won't like it and that is
> > > guaranteed.
>
> There's an important tradition among systems administrators, that they will
> deal with "abuse OF the net", but not with "abuse ON the net". I think this
> is valid and worth preserving.
>
> For example, any sane ISP has something in their terms of service agreement
> that lets them disconnect spammers. They must be able to do this in order
> to protect other systems' users from spam.
>
> On the other hand, an ISP or a registry should not be acting against its
> customers for anything other than direct abuse OF the network. There are
> laws against libel, trademark misuse, stalking, harassment, some types of
> pornography, 'hate literature', slander, software 'piracy', ...
>
> All these forms of abuse ON the net are better dealt with by police and
> courts than by system admins. Courts have legal authority to act on these
> issues, experience and expertise, protections for the accused, standards
> of evidence, ... Neither ISPs nor registries have any of those.
>
> There may be some exceptions for extremely blatant violators, where an
> ISP or registry might reasonably help stop abuse, but when there is any
> doubt at all, they should give their customers the benefit of that doubt.
>
> So, while I feel that having registries disconnect spammers is not a good
> idea (mainly because I don't trust ICANN to come up with good guidelines
> and NSI are themselves spammers), I do think you can make a far better
> case for that than for having them try to enforce trademark restrictions.

All of the above hangs together perfectly.  It also leads to the key question,
though.  Copying the phrase "Courts have legal authority to act on these
issues, experience and expertise, protections for the accused, standards
of evidence, ... Neither ISPs nor registries have any of those," a complete
statement would be made if one added ICANN along with ISPs and
registries, and with specific emphasis on trademarks.  ICANN, with its
UDRP and other policy meddling, suffers from the same lack of legal
authority, experience and expertise, protections for the 'accused,'
standards of evidence, and soforth.

Bill Lovell

>
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The URLs for Best Practices:
DNSO Citation:
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaindex.html
(Under "Other Information Documents"; "August 2001:
Proposal for Best Practices for the DNSO GA")
Part I:
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20010813.GA-BestPractices.html
Part II:
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20010813.GA-BP-flowchart.pdf
(Access to the .pdf file requires installing the Adobe Acrobat
Reader, which is available for free down load at
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html.)

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:30:47 +1200
From: Steven Heath <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Re[4]: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

> When I contacted Joop, he told me that he did not plan to 
> apply, because he 
> had not been accepted in the past, and did not see why he 
> would have been 
> accepted this time. It was only after my insisting on him 
> giving another try 
> that he applied.
> 
> I am glad that he will be in Montevideo, otherwise I would 
> not have been 
> able to argue once more with him ;>).

I would like to point out that InternetNZ had offered to pay approx. half of
his travel costs to attend Montevideo and in the past InternetNZ has helped
fund some of his trips.

Steven Heath

 
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:40:16 -0400
From: "Gomes, Chuck" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

Roberto is is right on target.  The Buenos Aires IFWP meeting was extremely
well done.

Chuck Gomes

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roberto Gaetano [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:28 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

I am frankly appalled by the fact that before every ICANN meeting there is a

round of comments about how inconvenient the location is, how insecure the 
country is, that the CIA does not recommend to go, and other amenities.

Anyway, I am sure that you organizers are doing a wonderful job.
As usual in your part of the world, I should add! I still remember that of 
the IFWP meetings by far the most successful was the one that some people 
did not want to take place, the one in Buenos Aires. The only one of the 
series with simultaneous interpretation in three languages, videoconference 
connection, and healthy financial situation thanks to the participation of 
the sponsors!

Regards
Roberto

>From: Raul Echeberria <[email-masked]>
>To: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
>CC: [email-masked]
>Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:24:41 -0500
>
>At 04:37 PM 20/08/01 +0200, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
>
> > But I said and will keep my word that it would be unfair to Joana and
>Eric, if they did be there too.  As you noted a trip to Montevideo is at
>least $ 2500 from Paris, probably $ 2300 from NY. I went to  shop for $
>7300. I found them. And then we considered that the money would be far
>better spent for  computers and teachers in an African school we support.
>
>Jefsey:
>
>I don't know if you travel in business class. If not, I'd be glad to help
>you to buy cheaper tickets to Uruguay.
>
>You can get a ticket from Paris by Air France to Uruguay by U$S 1300. Of
>course, in economy class.
>From NY by United Airlines by U$S 1200. Also in economy class.
>
>Also we have a broad offer of hotels with different rates and all of them
>with a good level of services.
>Probably MdR (as you say) is cheaper for you, but we can help you to have a
>cheap travel to come here.
>
>Hope to see you in Uruguay.
>
>Regards,
>
>Raul.
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:38:41 -0400
From: "Peter de Blanc" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses and Election timing.

A search on www.orbitz.com , which is the "all-airline" co-op web fare
search engine, shows US $ 724.00 from paris to montivideo, via madrid.

There is a fare of $ 871 from new york to montevideo.

The holiday inn next to the conference hotel has rooms under $ 80.00

Add meals, airport transfer, you are looking at less that $ 2,000.

Again, I'll gladly match $ 100 of donation to candidates that can not
afford to come.

Find 19 people who believe in a candidate  well enough to provide $
100.00, and the candidate is there!

Now as to your comment "Either all candidates should be provided travel
and 
hotel, or none, IMO.", well, several candidates are already coming, and
presumably have managed to pay for their travel. So only a few
candidates remain. Why should I, or ICANN donate travel money to someone
who already has a (paid) ticket? I would rather donate MY money to those
who need it! And I am willing to do so!

Peter de Blanc

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
$724 
 
   Air France 2200
  Tue, Sep 4
 8:00p-10:05p
plane change
   Paris, France (CDG)   Madrid, Spain (MAD) 2 
 
  Iberia 6841
  Tue, Sep 4
 11:40p-6:55a
plane change
   Madrid, Spain (MAD)   Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE) 
 
  Aerolineas Argentinas 1218
  Wed, Sep 5
 8:50a-9:30a
   Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE)   Montevideo, Uruguay (MVD)
  total duration: 18h 30min 
 
  Iberia 7401
  operated by partner airline
  Tue, Sep 11
 10:05a-10:45a
plane change
   Montevideo, Uruguay (MVD)   Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE) 2 
 
  Iberia 6840
  Tue, Sep 11
 2:15p-6:45a
plane change
   Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE)   Madrid, Spain (MAD) 
 
  Air Europa 1021
  Wed, Sep 12
 7:55a-10:05a
   Madrid, Spain (MAD)   Paris, France (CDG)
  total duration: 19h 0min 
- ----------------------------------------------------------
 $871 
 
   American Airlines 2111
  Tue, Sep 4
 6:11p-9:30p
plane change
   New York, NY (JFK)   Miami, FL (MIA) 2 
 
  American Airlines 999
  Tue, Sep 4
 11:20p-8:23a
plane change
   Miami, FL (MIA)   Sao Paulo, SP (GRU) 
 
  American Airlines 951
  Wed, Sep 5
 10:45a-1:25p
   Sao Paulo, SP (GRU)   Montevideo, Uruguay (MVD)
  total duration: 18h 14min 
 
  American Airlines 950
  Tue, Sep 11
 5:35p-7:55p
plane change
   Montevideo, Uruguay (MVD)   Sao Paulo, SP (GRU) 2 
 
  American Airlines 906
  Tue, Sep 11
 9:25p-4:27a
plane change
   Sao Paulo, SP (GRU)   Miami, FL (MIA) 
 
  American Airlines 518
  Wed, Sep 12
 7:25a-10:10a
   Miami, FL (MIA)   New York, NY (JFK)
  total duration: 17h 35min 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 -----Original Message-----
From: L Gallegos [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:09 PM
To: Peter de Blanc
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses and
Election timing.

First, with the time frame involved, it could well be impossible to 
apply for and receive a grant for travel from any source.  

Second, $2,500.00 could be a very large hurdle for candidates.

Third, if even one candidate is left out of a f2f due to lack of funds, 
it would create an imbalance and appear to favor those with greater 
financial means.

Fourth, tickets purchased on short notice are much more 
expensive.

F2f is a good idea.  However, it is beyond the means of many of 
thsoe who would like to participate and should not be a barrier to a 
fair election.  Either all candidates should be provided travel and 
hotel, or none, IMO.  Since most business is actually done via the 
lists, perhaps it should continue that way for these elections until 
proper funding can be arranged for all candidates.  Furthermore, if 
all candidates cannot be present in Montevideo, perhaps none of 
them should be presented as a part of the meetings to avoid unfair 
advantage.

In addition, since there are only a few candidates, perhaps ICANN 
could use coach tickets and provide the same for the candidates.

Leah

On 19 Aug 2001, at 22:10, Peter de Blanc wrote:

> That is not a well thought out comment. We are only talking about a 
> small amount of money here, an air ticket and some hotel. Probably 
> about US $ 2,500.00
> 
> 25 persons paying $ 100 each would cover it.
> 
> In fact, I would be happy to match your donation of $ 100 each to the 
> candidates who can not afford the ticket.
> 
> Peter de Blanc
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of 
> pheather Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:23 PM To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses and

> Election timing.
> 
> 
> So much for a level playing field for all candidates. Instead, those 
> with the deepest pockets and the richest supporters are given 
> advantage.
> 
> pheather
> 
> 
> > 
> > I fully expect any person seeking such assistance to organize
> their own
> > financial support, and I am confident that the necessary sources of 
> > funds are out there. It is up to the candidate to identify the 
> > sources
> 
> > and to ask for the money. Or at least to recruit someone or some 
> > organization who supports that candidate's position and will do the 
> > fund-raising for them.
> > 
> 
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:42:58 -0400
From: "Peter de Blanc" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

Wow! $ 3,000 for MdR and you started in san francisco.

I started in Virgin islands- air fare, about $ 900.00, hotel $ 150 /
day, meals $ 50 a day, overall less than $ 2,000!

As for "opportunity cost", well, we all choose to do this service,
which, ultimately is "pro bono" for our time.

That is a part of what we "put back" into the Internet community.

Do you agree?  Or not ?

Peter de Blanc

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roeland Meyer [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:51 AM
To: 'Roberto Gaetano'; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

The point is that there has been small local participation in such
things. Coming down from the SF Bay Area, for MdR, I spent over $3000.
Analysis of Stockholm forcated expenses yields a similar number. My
larger issue is loss of 1.5 weeks of billing, a constant for all ICANN
meetings, with very little/none probable effect on new business or
positive effect on revenue. JavaOne was more beneficial to MHSC core
business then MdR, or any other ICANN meeting.

|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Roberto Gaetano [mailto:[email-masked]]
|> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 8:25 AM
|> 
|> Jefsey,
|> >
|> >I would be really interested if we added all the travel
|> expenses by ICANN
|> >meeting attendees over one year and compared with what they
|> would have been
|> >should all the meetings have been held in MdR.
|> 
|> I understand that for you MdR could be more convenient, but
|> probably most 
|> Uruguayans would find Montevideo less expensive....
|> Roberto

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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:56:38 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] Re:  Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expense

Dear members,

Leah has raised a significant issue that is worthy of debate.  She states:  
"Furthermore, if all candidates cannot be present in Montevideo, perhaps none 
of them should be presented as a part of the meetings to avoid unfair 
advantage."

As I was in favor of a candidates' forum/debate/question-answer session in 
Montevideo, upon hearing Peter deBlanc's remark during the Names Council 
teleconference that funding might be available for the candidates, I wrote to 
Phil Sheppard regarding this issue.  My position was that the constituencies 
had voted in favor of a later date for their NC vote in order to have the 
possibility of face-to-face meetings with the candidates, this decision 
having been made in the full knowledge that certain candidates might not be 
able to attend owing to financial considerations.  

Knowing that the DNSO has a budget category for "travel" and another budget 
category for "contingencies", I argued that we have an opportunity to provide 
every candidate with an equal opportunity to be heard in person, and that a 
failure to do so would not be in the best interests of those constituencies 
that expressed a desire to personally meet all the candidates.  

Phil sheppard made a counter-proposal to hold "telephone hustings for such 
candidates".   

At this point in time, I tend to share Leah's view that any session with only 
some of the candidates present may in fact serve to discriminate against the 
other candidates, but I haven't as yet come to a definate conclusion.  What 
is sufficiently clear is that the Council Chair will not authorize funds for 
the candidates' travel expenses. 

I do have my doubts about a telephone session (having noticed the 
connectivity issues we faced at Stockholm, and the problems at the last ALSC 
session), but perhaps there is some merit in this proposal...  

I leave it to you to decide whether the GA should sponsor a session for the 
candidates.  Please let me know your thoughts.

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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:25:28 -0400
From: "L Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re:  Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expense

If all the candidates can be included in a teleconference open to all 
attendees - IOW a two way from the meeting, I would be in favor.  If 
that session is also part of the webcast, so much the better since 
participants can also pose questions.  That would certainly be less 
expensive than travel expenses for all candidates.  

While not perfect, in that there will be at least one candidate 
physically present, it would at least allow for voice communication, 
which is somewhat more revealing than email forums.

Leah

On 20 Aug 2001, at 19:56, [email-masked] wrote:

> Dear members,
> 
> Leah has raised a significant issue that is worthy of debate.  She
> states:  "Furthermore, if all candidates cannot be present in
> Montevideo, perhaps none of them should be presented as a part of the
> meetings to avoid unfair advantage."
> 
> As I was in favor of a candidates' forum/debate/question-answer
> session in Montevideo, upon hearing Peter deBlanc's remark during the
> Names Council teleconference that funding might be available for the
> candidates, I wrote to Phil Sheppard regarding this issue.  My
> position was that the constituencies had voted in favor of a later
> date for their NC vote in order to have the possibility of
> face-to-face meetings with the candidates, this decision having been
> made in the full knowledge that certain candidates might not be able
> to attend owing to financial considerations.  
> 
> Knowing that the DNSO has a budget category for "travel" and another
> budget category for "contingencies", I argued that we have an
> opportunity to provide every candidate with an equal opportunity to be
> heard in person, and that a failure to do so would not be in the best
> interests of those constituencies that expressed a desire to
> personally meet all the candidates.  
> 
> Phil sheppard made a counter-proposal to hold "telephone hustings for
> such candidates".   
> 
> At this point in time, I tend to share Leah's view that any session
> with only some of the candidates present may in fact serve to
> discriminate against the other candidates, but I haven't as yet come
> to a definate conclusion.  What is sufficiently clear is that the
> Council Chair will not authorize funds for the candidates' travel
> expenses. 
> 
> I do have my doubts about a telephone session (having noticed the
> connectivity issues we faced at Stockholm, and the problems at the
> last ALSC session), but perhaps there is some merit in this
> proposal...  
> 
> I leave it to you to decide whether the GA should sponsor a session
> for the candidates.  Please let me know your thoughts.
> 
> --
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> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
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> 

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:32:18 +0200
From: "MANGIN Luc" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

Dear Mr Gomes,

I'll use the diplomatic langage throught the world  since centuries !!!
(If u cannot I'm convinced people around u can do)

Trés étonné de votre réaction de "haut" fonctionnaire d'une holding d'un
Ministère (de la Défense) Américain(e), je parle de la provenance de vos
budgets, de vos stratégies, de vos objectifs compréhensibles des protections
d'intêret, il me semble regretable que votre esprit Impérialiste ne peut
comprendre les besoins exprimés.
Votre sponsoring de $8000 pour cette manifestation n'est pas à la hauteur de
votre projet, vous devriait les inviter ...

- -----Message d'origine-----
De : [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]De la part de Gomes,
Chuck
Envoyé : lundi 20 août 2001 23:40
À : 'Roberto Gaetano'; [email-masked]
Cc : [email-masked]
Objet : RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

Roberto is is right on target.  The Buenos Aires IFWP meeting was extremely
well done.

Chuck Gomes

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roberto Gaetano [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:28 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses

I am frankly appalled by the fact that before every ICANN meeting there is a

round of comments about how inconvenient the location is, how insecure the
country is, that the CIA does not recommend to go, and other amenities.

Anyway, I am sure that you organizers are doing a wonderful job.
As usual in your part of the world, I should add! I still remember that of
the IFWP meetings by far the most successful was the one that some people
did not want to take place, the one in Buenos Aires. The only one of the
series with simultaneous interpretation in three languages, videoconference
connection, and healthy financial situation thanks to the participation of
the sponsors!

Regards
Roberto

>From: Raul Echeberria <[email-masked]>
>To: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
>CC: [email-masked]
>Subject: RE: [ga] Funding of ICANN Board candidate travel expenses
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:24:41 -0500
>
>At 04:37 PM 20/08/01 +0200, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
>
> > But I said and will keep my word that it would be unfair to Joana and
>Eric, if they did be there too.  As you noted a trip to Montevideo is at
>least $ 2500 from Paris, probably $ 2300 from NY. I went to  shop for $
>7300. I found them. And then we considered that the money would be far
>better spent for  computers and teachers in an African school we support.
>
>Jefsey:
>
>I don't know if you travel in business class. If not, I'd be glad to help
>you to buy cheaper tickets to Uruguay.
>
>You can get a ticket from Paris by Air France to Uruguay by U$S 1300. Of
>course, in economy class.
>From NY by United Airlines by U$S 1200. Also in economy class.
>
>Also we have a broad offer of hotels with different rates and all of them
>with a good level of services.
>Probably MdR (as you say) is cheaper for you, but we can help you to have a
>cheap travel to come here.
>
>Hope to see you in Uruguay.
>
>Regards,
>
>Raul.
>
>
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