Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #349
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Thursday, April 5 2001           Volume 01 : Number 349

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:52:47 +1200
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Final Statement

At 07:10 5/04/01 +1000, Patrick Corliss wrote:
>
>> I feel that this is unfair to the other candidates. Danny has pledged that
>> he will work as the GA's humble servant. If he is elected, it is up to the
>> GA members to make proposals, motions, seconds and he will be the one who
>> makes sure that the will of the GA is given expression.
>
>I make the same pledge.  You understood that when you nomnated me.
>

I most certainly did. :-)
It is at this point that a good Chair deserves so much respect. 
Roberto and Harald have been praised, but also criticised, when their own
convictions got sometimes in the way of the will of the Assembly.

It is not easy to give up advocacy and candidate Eric's honesty about it is
refreshing.
I don't think I could be a good chair myself either--at least not as long
as there is still no recognized Individuals' constituency in the DNSO. :-(

- -joop
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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:05:16 +1200
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] No Members?

At 22:17 4/04/01 +0200, Thomas Roessler wrote:

>So, please, let's get away from the legal battle on whether or not
>ICANN successfully managed to avoid a statutory membership. Instead,
>let's look at what kind of at large membership would be helpful,
>healthy and reasonable for ICANN.
>

Yes, I think it is a good suggestion to leave the legal battle to that
particular battlefield. We have heard both sides and there is little to add.

Following Thomas'  choice of criteria:

Helpful: the kind of at large members who have so far been touched by the
outreach and have actually taken the trouble of signing up as ICANN @large
members, waiting for their PIN and voting for their area's director. To
tell these people to go home now is going to be unhelpful to ICANN.

Healthy: the same members who are gathering here on the mailing lists and
who went to the physical ICANN meetings as "members" and who are bending
over backwards to keep favouring ICANN over other governance solutions, in
spite of having been excluded so far.  To tell the people that they have
wasted their time will be unhealthy to ICANN.

Reasonable: all individuals, such as Domain Name Holders,  who  have a
stake in the DNS and who are directly affected by the outcome of ICANN
policymaking.
To exclude stakeholders in the DNS is unreasonable.

This last category should, of course, not only be @large members, where
they cannot do more than elect their Board members, but it would be helpful
, healthy and reasonable to let them be part of the DNSO policy advising
structure, FWIW now, as well.  

- --Joop--
Former bootstrap of the CA/idno
       The Polling Booth 
www.democracy.org.nz/vote1/

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:43:15 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] No Members?

No!  In case no one noticed this is the type of post I am campaigning against.
It is anit-outreach, anti-education and it basically stinks. It makes one want to
ask "who do you work for Mr. Crocker?"  This post is speciffically designed to
drive people off the list.  Joanna has contributed more to these lists then 20
years of this brutal attack will ever contribute.  this post is generally
designed to attack the integrity of this fine human being.

I now publicly ask that the same rules be applied to him as were applied to Mr.
Williams and have him banned from the list.  I believe that if this is not done
that we have a clear reason to change the method of censorship.

To Joanna, you rock!!

To Mr. Crocker i hope you are well paid. Because that issue started this did it
not? and yet you have still not given us an answer.

I say all this after being censored by Mr. Harald for doing just what he did do
me, saying he does not read any of my posts, even though I am a popular
candidate.  This is nasty pollitics at its' worst.

Extremely sincerely,

Eric Dierker

Dave Crocker wrote:

> At 07:02 PM 4/4/2001, Joanna Lane wrote:
> >At 03:17 PM 4/4/2001, Joanna Lane wrote:
> > >You know, I would be most interested to know where you get this kind of
> > >information from. ... Very odd to my way of thinking.
> >
> >...
> >
> >No. You do realize I hope that you are attacking me for requesting the
> >source of hearsay information. This was a reasonable enquiry.
>
> You were not primarily requesting information.  the text I quoted (see
> directly above here) is judgemental and tailored to impune questions of
> ethics, or the like.  f
>
> If you are insensitive to the challenging tone in your wording, a course in
> writing (probably best to focus on business writing) would be helpful.
>
> (by the way, i tried to find a more neutral way to word the above, but your
> attempt at wide eyed innocence does not leave any choice.)
>
> >Dave Crocker wrote:-
> >And you further appear to believe that because you have not been tracking
> >the history of these activities closely (or for a long time) ...
> >
> >No, and just because a person says something repeatedly (or for a long time)
> >doesn't mean it is true.
>
> Clearly you should not be involved in discussions on an open email list,
> since you only will be satisfied by sitting in directly during the meetings
> that you ask about.
>
> >Dave Crocker wrote:-
> >Even when the details
> >about those individuals have been discussed and re-discussed many times.
> >
> >OIC. You mean I should have known that Kent is engaged in offlist dialogue
> >with ICANN staff. Thank you for the confirmation.
>
> OIC.  You are so interested in placing your own interpretation on things
> that you are willing to invent interpretations to statements that provide
> no basis for the interpretations.
>
> Thank YOU for the confirmation.
>
> If you ever interested in serious discussion about serious ICANN issues,
> please do let us know.
>
> d/
>
> ----------
> Dave Crocker   <mailto:[email-masked]>
> Brandenburg InternetWorking   <http://www.brandenburg.com>
> tel: +1.408.246.8253;   fax: +1.408.273.6464
>
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:51:12 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] No Members?

You know that Joop is a preverbial pain but danged if he doesn't hit the nail on
the head!!  Joops' transparency is a lesson for us all.

I have to comment that during this time before chair,  I am most concerned that
Mr. Corliss is not so transparent and pushing his obvious agenda, it seems
disingenous at best.  I become worried in his motives when he is so non-caring
of his personal bias.

Sincerely,

Joop Teernstra wrote:

> At 22:17 4/04/01 +0200, Thomas Roessler wrote:
>
> >So, please, let's get away from the legal battle on whether or not
> >ICANN successfully managed to avoid a statutory membership. Instead,
> >let's look at what kind of at large membership would be helpful,
> >healthy and reasonable for ICANN.
> >
>
> Yes, I think it is a good suggestion to leave the legal battle to that
> particular battlefield. We have heard both sides and there is little to add.
>
> Following Thomas'  choice of criteria:
>
> Helpful: the kind of at large members who have so far been touched by the
> outreach and have actually taken the trouble of signing up as ICANN @large
> members, waiting for their PIN and voting for their area's director. To
> tell these people to go home now is going to be unhelpful to ICANN.
>
> Healthy: the same members who are gathering here on the mailing lists and
> who went to the physical ICANN meetings as "members" and who are bending
> over backwards to keep favouring ICANN over other governance solutions, in
> spite of having been excluded so far.  To tell the people that they have
> wasted their time will be unhealthy to ICANN.
>
> Reasonable: all individuals, such as Domain Name Holders,  who  have a
> stake in the DNS and who are directly affected by the outcome of ICANN
> policymaking.
> To exclude stakeholders in the DNS is unreasonable.
>
> This last category should, of course, not only be @large members, where
> they cannot do more than elect their Board members, but it would be helpful
> , healthy and reasonable to let them be part of the DNSO policy advising
> structure, FWIW now, as well.
>
> --Joop--
> Former bootstrap of the CA/idno
>        The Polling Booth
> www.democracy.org.nz/vote1/
>
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:11:11 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] FW: [registrars] Tucows' Privacy Initiative

Dear Mr. Rader.,

I have read your material and am generally impressed by your tenor.
I have to assume a questionable aspect and so I pose this question and one other and would like your response
to this list;  (before I start the roast I want to congratulate you and your firm for your business plan and
model for ROI)

We are often told that this list is useless and only deals in trivia and minutiae, Why did you take the
obviously open and transparent tact of posting here and opening your self up to professional protagaonists and
antogonists.  Our own board chose not to do the same open and transparent act, why did you?

And second, didn't the Ip guys do the anti-privacy thing and how can you possibly defeat their right to know
who to sue?

Sincerely,
Eric -- a guy mainly concerned with Outreach, Education and Multiligualism.
Thank you in advance for any attention paid to this list.

"Ross Wm. Rader" wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of Timothy M. Denton
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 5:39 PM
> To: Vinton Cerf
> Cc: Dennis Jennings ; Patricio Poblete ; Nii Quaynor ; Philip Sheppard;
> Masanobu Katoh ; Theresa Swinehart ; Roger Cochetti ; Hirofumi Hotta ;
> Antonio Harris ; Michael Schneider ; Kathryn Kleiman ; Zakaria Amar ;
> Youn Jung Park ; Ken Stubbs ; Erica Roberts ; Paul Kane ; Caroline
> Chicoine; Axel Aus der Muhlen ; Guillermo Carey ; San-hyon Kyong; Philip
> Davidson; Nii Quaynor; Masanobu Katoh; M. Stuart Lynn; Linda S. Wilson;
> Ken Fockler; Karl Auerbach; Jun Murai; Jonathan Cohen; Helmut Schink;
> Hans Kraaijenbrink; Frank Fitzsimmons; Andy Mueller-Maguhn; Amadeu
> Abril; Alejandro Pisanty; Registrars@Dnso. Org; [email-masked]; Louis
> Touton; [email-masked]
> Subject: [registrars] Tucows' Privacy Initiative
>
> To the Members of the Board of ICANN, ICANN staff, the Names Council of the
> DNSO:
>
> In Melbourne at the last ICANN meeting, Tucows launched a privacy
> initiative. We are following up on that initiative by placing in your hands
> the documents that set forth our position, answer some questions, and
> explain who we are.
> The titles of the documents are self-explanatory.
>
> We suggest that you store these attachments for future reference.
>
> The attachments to this email contain:
> 1) Tucows' Privacy Initiative: a letter calling for changes to the
> Registrars' Accreditation Agreement with ICANN on the matter of bulk access
> to personal data
> 2) A fact sheet answering some questions about this initiative
> 3) A fact sheet about Tucows business and personnel
>
> You will be contacted over the next few weeks about this. We will start with
> the names council of the DNSO and move on to the ICANN Board. We are aware
> that the names council will soon be working on this issue and we welcome
> their attention to it.
>
> We are seeking your support to cause this amendment to happen.
> Please note that our proposed changes deal only with bulk access - mass
> marketing, and do not affect legitimate interests of IP holders and law
> enforcement in the Whois look up.
> On behalf of Tucows, I am
>
> T.M.Denton, BA,BCL
> tmdenton.com
> 1-613-789-5397
> 37 Heney Street
> Ottawa, Ontario
> Canada K1N 5V6
> www.tmdenton.com
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                       Name: An open letter regarding Registrant privacy.pdf
>    An open letter regarding Registrant privacy.pdf    Type: Portable Document Format (application/pdf)
>                                                   Encoding: base64
>
>                                    Name: Tucows.fact.sheet.final..doc
>    Tucows.fact.sheet.final..doc    Type: Microsoft Word Document (application/msword)
>                                Encoding: base64
>
>                                                      Name: Fact Sheet on Tucows' Privacy Policy(sent).doc
>    Fact Sheet on Tucows' Privacy Policy(sent).doc    Type: Microsoft Word Document (application/msword)
>                                                  Encoding: base64

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:42:32 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] No Members?

Mr. Walsh,

But of course you are right and I am wrong.  OTOH I do not want him banned, and i want
any complaints aired openely and transparently. And I want them heard by an equally
open and transparent body of three selected by the new chair.

This whole new Problem with privacy must bring these issues to the forefront.  I
believe you get the connection.  I apologize if I set you up for this one, but you are
a great straight man. And just so no one is wondering, yes much to his dismay Mr. Walsh
has tutored me extensively, and quit every other day in disgust at my lack of accument
but he is patient and honorable and even teaches us newbies how to work in the big
city.

Anything I say is not his fault but if it is acceptable it may be due to him.

Sincerely,

p.s. did he set me up for this one?, I have been once again used by Prof Walsh.

"William X. Walsh" wrote:

> Hello Eric,
>
> REad the rules, complaints do not go to the list.
>
> We have a structure, and there is a reason for it.
>
> Complaint sent to the list serve ONLY to inflame and make things
> worse.  That is why the special address was setup for complaints.
>
> Stop going off the deepend so quickly, you only hurt yourself.
>
> For your information, I know personally that at least 5 complaints
> have already been filed, privately, about the same comment, including
> my own.
>
> They were smart enough and wise enough to do it properly, and off
> list.
>
> Friday, February 25, 2000, 9:43:15 PM, Eric Dierker wrote:
>
> > No!  In case no one noticed this is the type of post I am campaigning against.
> > It is anit-outreach, anti-education and it basically stinks. It makes one want to
> > ask "who do you work for Mr. Crocker?"  This post is speciffically designed to
> > drive people off the list.  Joanna has contributed more to these lists then 20
> > years of this brutal attack will ever contribute.  this post is generally
> > designed to attack the integrity of this fine human being.
>
> > I now publicly ask that the same rules be applied to him as were applied to Mr.
> > Williams and have him banned from the list.  I believe that if this is not done
> > that we have a clear reason to change the method of censorship.
>
> > To Joanna, you rock!!
>
> > To Mr. Crocker i hope you are well paid. Because that issue started this did it
> > not? and yet you have still not given us an answer.
>
> > I say all this after being censored by Mr. Harald for doing just what he did do
> > me, saying he does not read any of my posts, even though I am a popular
> > candidate.  This is nasty pollitics at its' worst.
>
> > Extremely sincerely,
>
> > Eric Dierker
>
> > Dave Crocker wrote:
>
> >> At 07:02 PM 4/4/2001, Joanna Lane wrote:
> >> >At 03:17 PM 4/4/2001, Joanna Lane wrote:
> >> > >You know, I would be most interested to know where you get this kind of
> >> > >information from. ... Very odd to my way of thinking.
> >> >
> >> >...
> >> >
> >> >No. You do realize I hope that you are attacking me for requesting the
> >> >source of hearsay information. This was a reasonable enquiry.
> >>
> >> You were not primarily requesting information.  the text I quoted (see
> >> directly above here) is judgemental and tailored to impune questions of
> >> ethics, or the like.  f
> >>
> >> If you are insensitive to the challenging tone in your wording, a course in
> >> writing (probably best to focus on business writing) would be helpful.
> >>
> >> (by the way, i tried to find a more neutral way to word the above, but your
> >> attempt at wide eyed innocence does not leave any choice.)
> >>
> >> >Dave Crocker wrote:-
> >> >And you further appear to believe that because you have not been tracking
> >> >the history of these activities closely (or for a long time) ...
> >> >
> >> >No, and just because a person says something repeatedly (or for a long time)
> >> >doesn't mean it is true.
> >>
> >> Clearly you should not be involved in discussions on an open email list,
> >> since you only will be satisfied by sitting in directly during the meetings
> >> that you ask about.
> >>
> >> >Dave Crocker wrote:-
> >> >Even when the details
> >> >about those individuals have been discussed and re-discussed many times.
> >> >
> >> >OIC. You mean I should have known that Kent is engaged in offlist dialogue
> >> >with ICANN staff. Thank you for the confirmation.
> >>
> >> OIC.  You are so interested in placing your own interpretation on things
> >> that you are willing to invent interpretations to statements that provide
> >> no basis for the interpretations.
> >>
> >> Thank YOU for the confirmation.
> >>
> >> If you ever interested in serious discussion about serious ICANN issues,
> >> please do let us know.
> >>
> >> d/
> >>
> >> ----------
> >> Dave Crocker   <mailto:[email-masked]>
> >> Brandenburg InternetWorking   <http://www.brandenburg.com>
> >> tel: +1.408.246.8253;   fax: +1.408.273.6464
> >>
> >> --
> >> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> >> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> >> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> >> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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>
> --
> Best regards,
>  William                            mailto:[email-masked]

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:53:04 -0800
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] No Members?

I reread this post and now I definately want you to give some disclosure or be
accepted as a paid antogonist to this list.  If Mr. Williams gets kicked off for
saying what he believes, what is our standard for saying what we are paid to say,
and what is our standard if someone is paid to stop the directive of the WHITE
PAPER?

Ms. Joanna was right on track.  And the respondent did a Texas Two Step.

Dave Crocker wrote:

> At 07:02 PM 4/4/2001, Joanna Lane wrote:
> >At 03:17 PM 4/4/2001, Joanna Lane wrote:
> > >You know, I would be most interested to know where you get this kind of
> > >information from. ... Very odd to my way of thinking.
> >
> >...
> >
> >No. You do realize I hope that you are attacking me for requesting the
> >source of hearsay information. This was a reasonable enquiry.
>
> You were not primarily requesting information.  the text I quoted (see
> directly above here) is judgemental and tailored to impune questions of
> ethics, or the like.  f
>
> If you are insensitive to the challenging tone in your wording, a course in
> writing (probably best to focus on business writing) would be helpful.
>
> (by the way, i tried to find a more neutral way to word the above, but your
> attempt at wide eyed innocence does not leave any choice.)
>
> >Dave Crocker wrote:-
> >And you further appear to believe that because you have not been tracking
> >the history of these activities closely (or for a long time) ...
> >
> >No, and just because a person says something repeatedly (or for a long time)
> >doesn't mean it is true.
>
> Clearly you should not be involved in discussions on an open email list,
> since you only will be satisfied by sitting in directly during the meetings
> that you ask about.
>
> >Dave Crocker wrote:-
> >Even when the details
> >about those individuals have been discussed and re-discussed many times.
> >
> >OIC. You mean I should have known that Kent is engaged in offlist dialogue
> >with ICANN staff. Thank you for the confirmation.
>
> OIC.  You are so interested in placing your own interpretation on things
> that you are willing to invent interpretations to statements that provide
> no basis for the interpretations.
>
> Thank YOU for the confirmation.
>
> If you ever interested in serious discussion about serious ICANN issues,
> please do let us know.
>
> d/
>
> ----------
> Dave Crocker   <mailto:[email-masked]>
> Brandenburg InternetWorking   <http://www.brandenburg.com>
> tel: +1.408.246.8253;   fax: +1.408.273.6464
>
> --
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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:01:57 +1000
From: "Patrick Corliss" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Fw: [apnic-announce] RIR Comparative Policy Overview document

FYI

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: APNIC Secretariat <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:12 AM
Subject: [apnic-announce] RIR Comparative Policy Overview document

> [Note "reply-to:" field]
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> JOINT RIR COMPARATIVE POLICY OVERVIEW DOCUMENT
>   - First draft released
> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> APNIC, ARIN, and RIPE NCC have coordinated to produce the first draft of the
> RIR Comparative Policy Overview document.
> 
> The goal of this document is to provide a comparative overview of the
> policies in the RIR system.  It is not a policy statement by the RIRs, but
> is intended to serve as a reference for the Internet community.  This is a
> public document that will be reviewed and revised
> through the coordinated effort of the RIRs.
> 
> This document is available at:
> 
> http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/mem-services/registration/rir-comp-matrix-rev.ht
> ml
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> APNIC Secretariat
> <[email-masked]>
>                                                      Tel: +61-7-3367-0490
> Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Ltd  Fax: +61-7-3367-0482
> Level 1, 33 Park Road, PO Box 2131, Milton, QLD 4064, Australia
> _________________________________________________________________________
> 
> *            APNIC-ANNOUNCE: Announcements concerning APNIC              *
> * To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to [email-masked] *
> 

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:21:41 +1200
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] New Privacy Initiative

At 16:19 4/04/01 -0700, Bret Fausett wrote:
>Kudos to Tucows for taking the first steps in making the privacy of
>registrant data a new ICANN consensus policy. You can find a letter sent
>today from Tucows to the ICANN Board, DNSO Names Council, and registrar
>community here:
>
>  http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/registrars/Arc01/msg00465.html
>
>The goal apparently is to create a new ICANN consensus policy that will
>prevent the misuse of a registrant's personal data for mass marketing
>purposes. 
>
>This seems like something that the General Assembly could and should
>support.
>
Especially for Individual Domain Name Holders privacy of their home
adresses and protection against abuse of their email adresses is a crucial
issue.

At this point in time, only EU citizens enjoy such protection.

- -joop

- --Joop Teernstra LL.M.--  
the Cyberspace Association and 
the constituency for Individual Domain Name Owners
Elected representative.
http://www.idno.org  

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:38:41 +0200
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of Dave Crocker

The monitor has watched with sadness and some amazement the degree of 
innuendo and accusations being tossed around in the debate between Dave 
Crocker and Joanna Lane.

However, a new low was reached in 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00133.html, the last sentence of 
Dave Crocker's mail.

This was entirely irrelevant, inappropriate, and probably intended to be 
insulting.
(not being a native English speaker, I'm not even sure I get the point...)

Dave Crocker <[email-masked]> is hereby suspended from the list for 2 
weeks, until April 19, 2001.

BTW: Initial complaints came from William Walsh and Chris Ambler. The 
source of complaint was not a factor in the evaluation, but it is not only 
me who think this was over the line.

             Harald Alvestrand
             List monitor

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 13:13:40 +0200
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] [ADMIN] Election matters

The Chairs have noted Jonathan Weinberg's intention to remove himself from
consideration as GA chair.
After consultation with the Watchdog committee, the Chairs have deemed the
following course of action to be in accordance with the rules for elections:

- - The election will go ahead as scheduled, with the same slate and deadlines.
   This is because we have no rules that allow us to change a running election.
- - In the case of someone sending multiple votes, the LAST vote to arrive
   before the deadline will be counted.
   The Secretariat will resend the ballots, in case people have lost the
   original message.
- - If Jonathan Weinberg should be elected, and chooses to follow up on his
   intent to resign, the new chair or co-chair should call
   a new election to fill the vacancy.

This seems to be the best we can do under the circumstances.
Note that the deadline for voting is Saturday 7 April 2001, 16:00 UTC
(18:00 CET (Paris), 9:00 LA, 12:00 New York, 18:00 Paris, 01:00 next day 
Tokyo)

         Harald Alvestrand, on behalf of the chairs.

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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:20:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Joe Gluza <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] New Privacy Initiative

On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Joop Teernstra wrote:

<snip>
> Especially for Individual Domain Name Holders privacy of their home
> adresses and protection against abuse of their email adresses is a crucial
> issue.
>
> At this point in time, only EU citizens enjoy such protection.
<snip>

But probably not for much longer.  The story is that the US is about to use the
WTO to overturn EU privacy laws concerning Data Security which are thought to
constrain US business.

Joe

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Gluza                      Cambridge University Computing Service,
[email-masked]                 New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email-masked]        England.  Phone: +44 1223 334701
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:00:16 +0200
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] No Members?

Eric,

>I now publicly ask that the same rules be applied to him as were applied to 
>Mr.
>Williams and have him banned from the list.  I believe that if this is not 
>done
>that we have a clear reason to change the method of censorship.

Complaints should be addressed to [email-masked].

Regards
Roberto

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:27:48 +0200
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] [ADMIN] Admonishment on use of derogatory name corruption

Note from the list monitor:

The list monitor has received a comment that if making obscure/obscene 
jokes out of one person's name is an offense, then doing so to another's 
name is also an offense.

Multiple repetition of the same offense does not make it less offensive.
Examples of what I am talking about are in

http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00103.html
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc06/msg00926.html

to name a few.
This is a warning.

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:36:54 +0200
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] No Members?

Joanna,

Now that the intervention of the list monitor has reconducted the thread 
into the limits of civil discourse, may I add something.

>Kent,
>You know, I would be most interested to know where you get this kind of
>information from. It's almost as if there's a private dialogue running
>offlist between you and a member of staff, providing you with answers to
>questions as they crop up. I mean, how could you possibly know there are
>boxes and boxes of undeliverable letters that contain a very large number 
>of
>addresses with non-roman character set unless you were there at the time
>physically in the office handling the post. Very odd to my way of thinking.

I knew that too.
In fact, I had several private conversations and exchange of e-mail messages 
with ICANN Staff on this subject, mostly with Andrew McLaughlin.

My point is that there is nothing secret in what Kent has said. There have 
been some postings from Andrew on this subject on icann-eu, a public list 
about European AtLarge members(1).

I am not sure, but I think that the issue about boxes of returned letters 
has been even mentioned by Andrew in Marina del Rey.

Regards
Roberto

(1) Disclaimer: I mean members in the broad sense, not necessarily in the 
sense of California Law ;>)

>
>
>On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 01:54:24PM -0700, Kristy McKee wrote:
> > Now that we've heard from the cheerleaders will someone from the team
> > please answer the question... I'd like to know where the money went as
>well.
>
>The original Markle grant was for a total of $200000, as I recall.
>There were over 150000 people who signed up, every one of them had a
>letter printed and mailed to them, and most of those were overseas.
>Though I don't know the details, obviously the entire original grant
>could easily have been swallowed in letter production and mailing costs
>alone.  More than half of the people sent letters did not finish the
>registration process; a very large number of letters were returned,
>especially from countries with non-roman character sets.
>
>Jody Baram was the project manager, her $30,000 for 6 months included
>benefits; that translates to around $30-40K per year as a normal paid
>employee.  Chicken feed, considering how incredibly thankless and
>stressful the job was.  I sure hope her next job was more congenial.
>
>The program went way over budget; I believe that the shortfall was made
>up through ICANN's operating funds, and perhaps an additional grant from
>Markle.  Jody's contract was extended at least once to help deal with
>the left over work, of which there was a lot.  There are boxes and boxes
>of undeliverable letters that were returned.  They were still getting
>returns from far away places, last I heard.
>
>--
>Kent Crispin                               "Be good, and you will be
>[email-masked]                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain
>--
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 08:39:55 -0400
From: "Kevin J. Connolly" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of Dave Crocker

I object.
I object to the lack of even-handedness.
While so many posters on this list feel not the least constrained by the 5-posts per day limit, others are squashed for making the very obvious observation that the non-suspended partner in the exchange does indeed have an email address that makes an English speaker think that it's some kind of JOKE.

Okay, go ahead. I said it too. You wanna suspend me now, too?

Kevin J. Connolly
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Robinson Silverman Pearce Aronsohn & Berman, LLP
1290 Sixth Aveue of the Americas
New York, NY 10104
212-541-1066/fax 212-541-1346
This note is not legal advice. If it were legal advice, it would come with an invoice.

Live, like there's no tomorrow.....
     Love, like you've never been hurt.....
          And dance, like no one's watching.

>>> Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]> 04/05/01 05:38AM >>>
The monitor has watched with sadness and some amazement the degree of 
innuendo and accusations being tossed around in the debate between Dave 
Crocker and Joanna Lane.

However, a new low was reached in 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00133.html, the last sentence ofD
 ave Crocker's mail.

This was entirely irrelevant, inappropriate, and probably intended to be 
insulting.
(not being a native English speaker, I'm not even sure I get the point...)

Dave Crocker <[email-masked]> is hereby suspended from the list for 2 
weeks, until April 19, 2001.

BTW: Initial complaints came from William Walsh and Chris Ambler. The 
source of complaint was not a factor in the evaluation, but it is not onlym
 e who think this was over the line.

             Harald Alvestrand
             List monitor

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #349
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