Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #193
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Wednesday, November 15 2000         Volume 01 : Number 193

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:20:48 -0800
From: "William X. Walsh" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

Hello Harald,

Consider it appealed. I did not call him any names, or make any
personal attacks.

I simply stated the fact, that the membership list in question is not
verified and the world and the DNSO is required to accept his word
alone that it is accurate.

That is a fact, one that Joop doesn't like to have commented on in
public.

Monday, November 13, 2000, 2:43:59 PM, you wrote:

> The list monitor has received a complaint from Joop Ternstra about the message
> sent by William X. Walsh <[email-masked]> on Nov 8, 2000, 
> containing the paragraph

>>Only you can tell us this, since you are the only one with access to
>>the membership list, and for all we know, half of those people are
>>made up.

> The list monitor finds that this is a personal attack that is in conflict 
> with the list rules, and therefore asks the list manager to suspend William 
> Walsh' posting rights to the list for 2 weeks, until November 27, 2000.

> Decisions of the list monitor can be appealed to the GA chair.

> --
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
> +47 41 44 29 94
> Personal email: [email-masked]

> --
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Best regards,
 William                            mailto:[email-masked]

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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:27:51 -0800
From: "William X. Walsh" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

Just for the record, so everyone knows.

You can now make any claim you want to on the DNSO GA list, regardless
of how unfounded or unproven it is, and not face any opposition to it,
because anyone who questions your veracity is guilty of a personal
attack under the rules.

Spare me.

Monday, November 13, 2000, 2:43:59 PM, you wrote:

> The list monitor has received a complaint from Joop Ternstra about the message
> sent by William X. Walsh <[email-masked]> on Nov 8, 2000, 
> containing the paragraph

>>Only you can tell us this, since you are the only one with access to
>>the membership list, and for all we know, half of those people are
>>made up.

> The list monitor finds that this is a personal attack that is in conflict 
> with the list rules, and therefore asks the list manager to suspend William 
> Walsh' posting rights to the list for 2 weeks, until November 27, 2000.

> Decisions of the list monitor can be appealed to the GA chair.

> --
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
> +47 41 44 29 94
> Personal email: [email-masked]

> --
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- -- 
Best regards,
 William                            mailto:[email-masked]

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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:33:10 -0800
From: Joe Kelsey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

To Whom It May Concern,

William is exactly correct.  He was not making a personal attack, simply
asserting a claim of his own to counter Joop's numerous unsupported and
unsupportable claims to the opposite.  Unitl someone can verify the
facts, they can both be considered to be making unverifiable claims of
fact and so can both be considered to be unsupported by truth.

Therefore, if William is barred, Joop should also be barred.

/Joe

William X. Walsh writes:
 > Hello Harald,
 > 
 > Consider it appealed. I did not call him any names, or make any
 > personal attacks.
 > 
 > I simply stated the fact, that the membership list in question is not
 > verified and the world and the DNSO is required to accept his word
 > alone that it is accurate.
 > 
 > That is a fact, one that Joop doesn't like to have commented on in
 > public.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Monday, November 13, 2000, 2:43:59 PM, you wrote:
 > 
 > > The list monitor has received a complaint from Joop Ternstra about the message
 > > sent by William X. Walsh <[email-masked]> on Nov 8, 2000, 
 > > containing the paragraph
 > 
 > >>Only you can tell us this, since you are the only one with access to
 > >>the membership list, and for all we know, half of those people are
 > >>made up.
 > 
 > > The list monitor finds that this is a personal attack that is in conflict 
 > > with the list rules, and therefore asks the list manager to suspend William 
 > > Walsh' posting rights to the list for 2 weeks, until November 27, 2000.
 > 
 > > Decisions of the list monitor can be appealed to the GA chair.
 > 
 > > --
 > > Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
 > > +47 41 44 29 94
 > > Personal email: [email-masked]
 > 
 > > --
 > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
 > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
 > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
 > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > Best regards,
 >  William                            mailto:[email-masked]
 > 
 > 
 > --
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 > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
 > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
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 > 
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:21:15 +0100
From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

On 2000-11-13 15:27:51 -0800, William X. Walsh wrote:

> You can now make any claim you want to on the DNSO GA list,
> regardless of how unfounded or unproven it is, and not face any
> opposition to it, because anyone who questions your veracity is
> guilty of a personal attack under the rules.

Don't you think that there is a difference between asking for hard
facts or improved security at IDNO (such as: Create a strong
verification system for IDNO membership), and claiming that "for all
we know, half of those people are made up" - without giving any
proof for that?

- -- 
Thomas Roessler                         <[email-masked]>
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:54:50 -0800
From: Kent Crispin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 10:21:15AM +0100, Thomas Roessler wrote:
> On 2000-11-13 15:27:51 -0800, William X. Walsh wrote:
> 
> > You can now make any claim you want to on the DNSO GA list,
> > regardless of how unfounded or unproven it is, and not face any
> > opposition to it, because anyone who questions your veracity is
> > guilty of a personal attack under the rules.
> 
> Don't you think that there is a difference between asking for hard
> facts or improved security at IDNO (such as: Create a strong
> verification system for IDNO membership), and claiming that "for all
> we know, half of those people are made up" - without giving any
> proof for that?

You are reading the phrase "for all we know, half of those people are
made up" as a "claim".  I don't read it that way at all -- it is clearly
a hypothetical.  Moreover, it doesn't say that *Joop* made up those
names -- just that there could be bogus identities (created by anyone)
on that list.  This is a serious expression of a serious security flaw. 
No one can see the list of names, there is absolutely no way to validate
those votes. 

Exaggerated example:

If I said: "Hey everybody, I have created a voting site, 500 ga
members joined up, and voted me in as list chair", would you consider 
someone saying "half of those could be made up" as a personal attack?  

- -- 
Kent Crispin                               "Be good, and you will be
[email-masked]                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:04:47 -0500
From: "J. William Semich" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Verisign Launches Multilingual .COM, .NET and .ORG today

Hello;

FYI, VeriSign Global Registry Services (formerly NSI Registry) opened its
testbed for registration of Chinese, Japanese and Korean .com, .net and
.org domain names at 00:00 UTC this morning. About 20 registrars and
resellers are currently offering this service to Internet users world wide,
including WorldNames, Inc. 

If any ccTLD or reseller or other domain name registration service provider
would like to offer this multilingual registration service to their
customers either using the ccTLD itself or as a Reseller for ML .COM, I'd
be happy to discuss it "off -list". FYI, WorldNames is offering a no-cost
semi-GPL license to its Multilingual BIND source code to all ICANN
Certified Registrars, TLD Registries (gTLD and ccTLD) and root server
managers at http://www.worldnames.net/NUBIND so Registrars and ccTLDs can
test out this new technology at no cost and can support customers in the
future as standards are developed. WorldNames MLBIND is plug-and-play
compatible with BIND 8.2.2 Patch 5, and has been field tested under the .NU
Domain for the past 10 months.

VeriSign has certified WorldNames technology as compatible with the
VeriSign Multilingual Testbed for .com, .net and .org registration service
as well.

Also, for more info on the WorldNames Verisign Multilingual .com
registration service, see:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/001110/ny_worldna.html

"WorldNames Announces Low Price of $8.88 to Register New Chinese, Japanese,
or Korean .COM, .NET and .ORG Domain Names"

Multilingual domain names are in your future. <smile>

Regards,

Bill Semich

Bill Semich
President and Founder
WorldNames, Inc.
http://www.worldnames.net
[email-masked]
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:47:36 -0800
From: Kristy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

I do and quite frankly I am very tired of everyone dogging the IDNO
and Joop.  I also recall Jeff W was suspended for repeating verifiable
information about a man's sexual conduct.  This was not a personal
attack:  it was VERIFIABLE INFORMATION.  Walsh has personally
attacked Joop over and over and over and over.  It is not helpful, fun,
or interesting to read.  Maybe if Mr. Walsh would apologize to Joop
& stop the personal attacks:  the rest of the personal attackers will
stop as well.  Although, one thing I've noticed about people no matter
how old, experienced, or knowledgeable:  they attack others and seem
to care less about progress when they feel threatened.

This list is moderated:  let's support our moderator.

~k

At 01:21 AM 11/14/2000, Thomas Roessler wrote:
>On 2000-11-13 15:27:51 -0800, William X. Walsh wrote:
>
> > You can now make any claim you want to on the DNSO GA list,
> > regardless of how unfounded or unproven it is, and not face any
> > opposition to it, because anyone who questions your veracity is
> > guilty of a personal attack under the rules.
>
>Don't you think that there is a difference between asking for hard
>facts or improved security at IDNO (such as: Create a strong
>verification system for IDNO membership), and claiming that "for all
>we know, half of those people are made up" - without giving any
>proof for that?
>
>--
>Thomas Roessler                         <[email-masked]>
>--
>This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
>Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:57:12 +0100
From: Robin Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: FW: CONSENSUS? [ga] DNSO General Assembly call to change seating  rule

I agree

"PMIW, Ken Stoen" wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Stoen [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 6:09 PM
> To: Thomas Roessler; [email-masked]
> Subject: CONSENSUS? [ga] DNSO General Assembly call to change seating
> rule
> 
> Hi
>  Let us cut to the chase here.
> Consider this a call to the list.
> 
> A: Is there a CONSENSUS on the following issue:
> 
> 1) The newly elected board members should take
>    their seats before the general meeting, not after.
> 
> 2) All non-elected members whose terms have been
>    extended beyond their original time should immediately
>    resign.
> 
> Please reply with yes "I agree"  or "I don't agree"
> 
> Ken
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:15:28 -0800
From: "Ben Edelman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] FW: REMINDER: ICANN-LA GA Meeting About to Begin

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ben Edelman [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 9:14 AM
To: ICANN-LA Remote Participants
Subject: REMINDER: ICANN-LA GA Meeting About to Begin

Just a quick reminder that today's meeting of the DNSO General Assembly is
now in progress.

(It started at 9AM local time, noon US Eastern time, 5PM UTC.  The Names
Council meeting begins approximately four hours later -- 1PM local, 4PM US
Eastern, 9PM UTC.)

Join the webcast via <http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/la2000>.  Full
archives will be posted at the conclusion of the meeting.

Ben Edelman
Berkman Center for Internet & Society
Harvard Law School

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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:16:29 +0100
From: Robin Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CONSENSUS? [ga] DNSO General Assembly call to change seating rule

Roeland Meyer wrote:
> 
> > Would you subscribe to the idea that only those who pay tax, should
> > have a vote?
> 
> SOmething similar was tried and argued in the early days of the USA.
> Hamilton held the belief that only land-owners should be able to vote. The
> theory is that only those with a vested interest should have control. Of
> course, that was before the day of Income Taxes.

I seem to remember that Thomas Jefferson called Alexander Hamilton a
'monarchist'... :) 

all the best, Robin
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:26:22 -0800
From: Simon Higgs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

At 10:47 AM 11/14/00 -0800, Kristy wrote:

I agree. The moderator has spoken.

>I do and quite frankly I am very tired of everyone dogging the IDNO
>and Joop.  I also recall Jeff W was suspended for repeating verifiable
>information about a man's sexual conduct.  This was not a personal
>attack:  it was VERIFIABLE INFORMATION.  Walsh has personally
>attacked Joop over and over and over and over.  It is not helpful, fun,
>or interesting to read.  Maybe if Mr. Walsh would apologize to Joop
>& stop the personal attacks:  the rest of the personal attackers will
>stop as well.  Although, one thing I've noticed about people no matter
>how old, experienced, or knowledgeable:  they attack others and seem
>to care less about progress when they feel threatened.
>
>This list is moderated:  let's support our moderator.
>
>~k
>
>At 01:21 AM 11/14/2000, Thomas Roessler wrote:
>>On 2000-11-13 15:27:51 -0800, William X. Walsh wrote:
>>
>> > You can now make any claim you want to on the DNSO GA list,
>> > regardless of how unfounded or unproven it is, and not face any
>> > opposition to it, because anyone who questions your veracity is
>> > guilty of a personal attack under the rules.
>>
>>Don't you think that there is a difference between asking for hard
>>facts or improved security at IDNO (such as: Create a strong
>>verification system for IDNO membership), and claiming that "for all
>>we know, half of those people are made up" - without giving any
>>proof for that?
>>
>>--
>>Thomas Roessler                         <[email-masked]>
>>--
>>This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
>>Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
>>("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
>>Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
>--
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Best Regards,

Simon Higgs

- --
It's a feature not a bug...

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:10:56 +0100
From: Robin Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

Kristy wrote:
> 
> I do and quite frankly I am very tired of everyone dogging the IDNO
> and Joop.  I also recall Jeff W was suspended for repeating verifiable
> information about a man's sexual conduct.  This was not a personal
> attack:  it was VERIFIABLE INFORMATION.  Walsh has personally
> attacked Joop over and over and over and over.  It is not helpful, fun,
> or interesting to read.  Maybe if Mr. Walsh would apologize to Joop
> & stop the personal attacks:  the rest of the personal attackers will
> stop as well.  Although, one thing I've noticed about people no matter
> how old, experienced, or knowledgeable:  they attack others and seem
> to care less about progress when they feel threatened.
> 
> This list is moderated:  let's support our moderator.
> 
> ~k

I agree totally, and you said it better than I could have ever said it myself.

all the best, Robin
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:56:28 -0500
From: Sandy Harris <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> 
> The list monitor has received a complaint from Joop Ternstra about the message
> sent by William X. Walsh <[email-masked]> on Nov 8, 2000,
> containing the paragraph
> 
> >Only you can tell us this, since you are the only one with access to
> >the membership list, and for all we know, half of those people are
> >made up.

This could of course have been put more politely, but it certainly strikes
me as fair comment. Methinks Joop's response should be one or more of:

	explain how we can verify his claim
	ignore it
	tell Walsh he is free to imagine whatever silliness he likes, but
	   the list is none the less real for that
	point out that, this being the net, for all we know Walsh is made up
 
> The list monitor finds that this is a personal attack ...

That's your perogative, but I find it surprising. I'm not saying we should
be flaming each other to cinders, but we should be free to attack each
other's positions with some vigour.
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:18:55 -0600
From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] ICANN meeting lunch spot

Please forgive this abuse of the list, but there is an interesting 
restaurant, right behind the Marriott and across Washington, that I would 
like to commend to all attendees this week:

It is called Killer Shrimp and serves only that.

You get a choice of side starch and that is all.  The shrimp is spicy and 
probably Carribean-derived.

d/

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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:26:14 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Resolutions from the GA physical meeting in Los Angeles

The detailed minutes of the meeting are available from the Berkman Center.
However, it's worth calling special attention to the resolutions adopted.
The gropu was informed that the resolutions were to be considered the 
opinions of the meeting, not of the GA; resolutions for which it made sense 
would be forwarded to the list for further discussion, possible revision 
and eventual vote.

The following resolutions were voted on in the GA meeting in LA:

Chair election:

•       The Chair of the GA should be the person who wins the vote of the 
GA Voting Registry

Carried, with 42 for, 2 against, 52 abstain.

Under new gTLDs, four motions were proposed.

•       Resolution: The Board should not decide upon new gTLDs until after 
the new Board members are seated. (60:83, 8 abstain) - FAILED
•       Resolution: The Board should not decide upon new gTLDs until the 
appicants have had time to respond to the Staff reports (78:52, 23 abstain)
•       Resolution: If the Board adopts any new gTLD, it should also adopt 
all competent applications (subject to name conflict resolution). (39:90, 
16 abstain) - FAILED
•       Resolution: The Board should adopt new gTLDs at this meeting. 
(77:59, 44 abstain)

There were 2 proposed resolutions on the remaining Board members, one of 
which was accepted.

•       Resolution 1: The four initial board members should step down now, 
and be replaced with people selected by the at-large elected members. 
(25:41, 23 abstain) - FAILED
•       Resolution 2: The Board should expedite the process of replacing 
the four remaining members ASAP, and at the latest by November 2001. (63:2, 
13 abstain)

- --
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
+47 41 44 29 94
Personal email: [email-masked]

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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:22:18 +1100
From: "Dassa" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

|>-----Original Message-----
|>From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
Harald
|>Alvestrand
|>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 9:44 AM
|>To: [email-masked]
|>Cc: [email-masked]
|>Subject: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of William X. Walsh

<SNIP>

|>>Only you can tell us this, since you are the only one with access
to
|>>the membership list, and for all we know, half of those people are
|>>made up.
|>
|>The list monitor finds that this is a personal attack that is
|>in conflict
|>with the list rules, and therefore asks the list manager to
|>suspend William
|>Walsh' posting rights to the list for 2 weeks, until November
|>27, 2000.

<SNIP>

Without presuming to contradict the findings of the monitor, I must
say that I am surprised by this action for a number of reasons.

This sets a very dangerous precedent and the monitor may find that
this ruling will be held up as an example of how such posts should be
judged.  Such ambiguous statements used in a definition for action
pave the way towards spurious allegations of impropriety and an
expectation that such complaints will be upheld.

I am also very surprised the complaint was lodged over such a
paragraph.  I have seen both Joop and WXW indulge in more heated
discussions, together and with others.  I have also seen worse on this
list from others.

It behoves me to say I find the whole incident petty and irrelevant.

+===========================+
|   Darryl Lynch (Dassa)    |
| DHS International Pty Ltd |
+===========================+

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #193
************************