Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #180
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GA-DIGEST           Monday, November 6 2000           Volume 01 : Number 180

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Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:12:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

Entrenchment of policy positions to make them harder to change after the
Board elections.

On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, Harald Alvestrand wrote:

> In order to achieve what? A tradition of instability of the bylaws?`

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A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
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Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 20:34:38 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

At 15:12 05/11/2000 +0100, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
>IMHO this petty, poor and boring comedy should be simply addressed in
>having a petition signed during the MDR meeting to sue the ICANN, demanding
>the respect of the CA law regarding the Members.

a matter of practical procedure:
I believe that now that we have a voting registry and a voting rule, any 
decision purporting to be backed by the GA *must* be processed according to 
this rule.

Otherwise, we disenfranchise the majority of the GA who is not in LA.

- --
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
+47 41 44 29 94
Personal email: [email-masked]

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Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 22:29:34 +0100
From: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

Harald,
as you may note I have proposed two things:
1. one petition concerning every one outside of DNSO as well.
     I think we can hardly vote to sue the ICANN ... according to
     an internal ICANN procedure? And to pay an atty on the
     DNSO budget?
     You are the CHairman: if you think wecann, let do it.
2. motions according to the rules you quote.
Jefsey

At 20:34 05/11/00, you wrote:
>At 15:12 05/11/2000 +0100, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
>>IMHO this petty, poor and boring comedy should be simply addressed in
>>having a petition signed during the MDR meeting to sue the ICANN, demanding
>>the respect of the CA law regarding the Members.
>
>a matter of practical procedure:
>I believe that now that we have a voting registry and a voting rule, any 
>decision purporting to be backed by the GA *must* be processed according 
>to this rule.
>
>Otherwise, we disenfranchise the majority of the GA who is not in LA.
>
>--
>Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
>+47 41 44 29 94
>Personal email: [email-masked]

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Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:19:02 -0800 
From: Roeland Meyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

I submit that Harald has a point. I assume that, as co-chair, Harald wil be
present in MDR. Let's discuss, informally, ways and means, there. If
something comes of it we can bring it up in the GA session, which if I
understand correctly, will be online.

Personally, I think a suit to be very expensive and not cost-beneficial. The
DNSO has not the funding and is a wholly owned part of the ICANN. The way
that the DNSO charter is written, it has no recourse. I doubt that a suit
would get very far. It would be like your hand suing your face. How would
reparations be made?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jefsey Morfin [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 1:30 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors
> 
> 
> Harald,
> as you may note I have proposed two things:
> 1. one petition concerning every one outside of DNSO as well.
>      I think we can hardly vote to sue the ICANN ... according to
>      an internal ICANN procedure? And to pay an atty on the
>      DNSO budget?
>      You are the CHairman: if you think wecann, let do it.
> 2. motions according to the rules you quote.
> Jefsey
> 
> At 20:34 05/11/00, you wrote:
> >At 15:12 05/11/2000 +0100, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
> >>IMHO this petty, poor and boring comedy should be simply 
> addressed in
> >>having a petition signed during the MDR meeting to sue the 
> ICANN, demanding
> >>the respect of the CA law regarding the Members.
> >
> >a matter of practical procedure:
> >I believe that now that we have a voting registry and a 
> voting rule, any 
> >decision purporting to be backed by the GA *must* be 
> processed according 
> >to this rule.
> >
> >Otherwise, we disenfranchise the majority of the GA who is not in LA.
> >
> >--
> >Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
> >+47 41 44 29 94
> >Personal email: [email-masked]
> 
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> 
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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:23:02 +0100
From: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

To Harald, Roberto, and all,
during the past days we have had several motions discussed and
seconded but not acted upon. From the following exchange with
Jeff, further to a mail from Harald, I think it is time we respond to
Roberto's proposition. I therefore formaly propose the following
motion which has been already seconded by Jeff to be voted in the
appropriate form chosen by Harald and Roberto. Anyone wanting
to second it too is welcome.

Text of the motion:

   "The Members of the DNSO GA wants the ICANN by laws
     to be modified so the next Chairman of the DNSO/GA ans his
    successors will be elected by the Members of the DNSO/GA."

I am leaving for the day, so I leave it to your care.
Jefsey

>From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
>Jefsey,
>Jefsey Morfin wrote:
> > Jeff,
> > I see you got the humour of my response and responded well
> > to Harald. However I do not think Harald is that much tricky. I
> > think we face a very special situation where much is at stake.
> > I warned Harald and others a few days ago that DNSO could not
> > motion against ICANN. They kept talking (without voting).
>
>Well some discussion is necessary so that other points of view
>are articulated.  But I understand your point and agree with it.
>
> > So I wanted to show them what it really meant. I read Harald's
> > response as a normal call to the order, of which you give the right
> > explanation, to my de facto call of Harald himself to the order
> >
> > The lesson is that we could certainly correct the DNSO errors
> > should we agree together and act as if we could do it. But we
> > will go nowhere as long as we do not concert. Your response
> > show you are in agreement with everyone. Why not to drop the
> > personnal and the historics aspects and go ahead step by step.
>
>Well I not necessarily in agreement with everyone.  But I am
>in agreement that is is log past time to get the DNSO reformed
>and policies changed or new ones established.
>
> > Step one to vote as per the sacro sancto procedure that we
> > want to have the Chair elected by the DNSO GA. And then
> > to build form there.
>
>And I agree with this.  Their also needs to be procedures by which
>the potentially newly ELECTED chair must follow.
>
> > I think than everyone wants with Roberto that the ever moving
> > ICANN by laws be enhanced once more and say that the Chair
> > of the DNSO/GA is to be elected by the Members of the
> > DNSO/GA.
>
>Agreed.
>
> > So will you second the following motion:
>
>Yes, consider it seconded.  Please post this response to the DNSO GA
>list as currently Harald has me SELECTIVELY CENSORED from
>posting.

<Text of the seconded motion :>

> > "The Members of the DNSO GA wants the ICANN by laws
> > to be modified so the next Chairman of the DNSO/GA ans his
> > successors will be elected by the Members of the DNSO/GA."
>
>Agreed.

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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 07:31:31 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

At 01:23 06/11/2000 +0100, Jefsey Morfin wrote:
>Text of the motion:
>
>   "The Members of the DNSO GA wants the ICANN by laws
>     to be modified so the next Chairman of the DNSO/GA ans his
>    successors will be elected by the Members of the DNSO/GA."
proposal for modification:

    The Members of the DNSO GA request that the ICANN Board of Directors
    and the Names Council amend the DNSO rules so that the General Assembly
    elects the Chair and Alternate Chair using the GA voting registry

I also motion that we delay action for a week, so that we can discuss this
in Marina Del Rey before taking action.

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Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [email-masked]
+47 41 44 29 94
Personal email: [email-masked]

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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:00:38 +0100
From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Extension of the Interim Board Directors

On 2000-11-05 15:12:05 +0100, Jefsey Morfin wrote:

> IMHO this petty, poor and boring comedy should be simply
> addressed in having a petition signed during the MDR meeting to
> sue the ICANN, demanding the respect of the CA law regarding the
> Members. ie that every person sharing into the process of
> electing a Board Director is a Member. A non profit organization
> without Member and a permanent "interim" board, changing the very
> nature of the Board at unexpected will, is pure joke. 

> As Esther Dyson says, it has no legitimacy.

Don't mix up legitimacy (which is certainly problematic) and
legality (which is just an open question).

Some even say that the "At Large Members trick" in the bylaws -
basically, don't put elections into the bylaws, but do a board
decision instead - may be a nice and effective way to work around
the California law's provisions.  One comment I heared was: "if that
law really looks like this, it's just inviting work-arounds".

> We need members (@large plus representative entities) as an ICANN
> GA, the by laws changes to be approved by the ICANN GA, as
> anywhere else in the world. Such an action could be carried
> through a Political Action Comity or equivalent (I propose ICAPAC
> for a name easy to recall and make press), with a Membership fee
> of $100 to pay for the costs. I am ready to subscribe.

I do agree with you that the current process for bylaw changes is
inappropriate, and should be changed in a way which makes it much
harder for the board to change the rules of the game.

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Thomas Roessler                         <[email-masked]>
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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:32:00 -0400
From: "Peter de Blanc" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2650485,00.html

The popular press seems to think there is some impropriety in the ICANN
board process, vis-a-vis new board members having no say in new TLD's.

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2650485,00.html

several of my professional colleagues have been calling or e-mailing on this
subject.

peter de Blanc

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #180
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