Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1691
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Saturday, May 10 2003           Volume 01 : Number 1691

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 00:14:57 +0000
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Choose your own

Hi.
I´m catching up with email, and when I saw the huge backlog piled up in few 
days I thought that something really serious had happened.
What a relief to see it was only the periodic remake of the "censorhip is 
good/bad" movie.
I´m cumulating the answers, not necessarily in priority nor in chronological 
order.

Richard Henderson:
>  I suspect that the German sense of humour is the problem here.

Yuo´re right, but it´s probably the European sense of humour, more than the 
German alone. Although we (Italians) mostly make fun of the German sense of 
humour, I have to admit my solidarity with the Germans here.
You quote sketches I unfortunately did not see, neither I´m aware of, so I 
might be off mark, but I don´t underestimate the sensitivity to a tragedy 
that has hit a great part (if not even the vast majority) of Europeans. We 
also have sketches on TV, but we take personal offense to be compared to 
people, like the fascists and the nazists, who have caused several millions 
deaths. The size of few thousands twin towers blowups. In fact, there are 
lots of similarities. First of all, the victims were innocent. Their fault, 
in the case of AlQaida´, to be there. In the case of fascists and nazists, 
to be of a certain race or religion, or to have certain sexual inclination, 
or other factors that you cannot easily control (and for which you should 
not be discriminated in first place).
Try to think of thousands of 9/11 over few years, affecting most of the 
families in a country, and you will realize how the sense of humour might be 
affected for generations. Of course, Europeans have to get out of it, but 
please understand that it is not easy.

To the general issue of "censorship":
Well, I am *not* against censorship, but I do believe that it is justified 
only in extereme circumstances, and under the control of an appropriate body 
who applies rules decided *before* the event. As an example, I do believe 
that (please forgive methe abused example) screaming "Fire" in an 
overcrowded theatre is not expression of free speech, that journalists on 
the front in case of war cannot divulgate any piece of information they 
have, and so on.
So I agree with the principle of censorship (under extreme and controlled 
circumstances) but I disagree on how it was applied here.
I personally know how INEGroup grows only through the replies of other 
participants of this list. I firmly believe that those who are annoyed by 
Jeff Williams posts have long ago learned how to deal with this. Those who 
think that INEGroup is a legitimate stakeholder of this process, are going 
only to be confirmed that there is an international plot against the 
legitimate interests of the cowboys of Grapewine. Everybody will keep 
his/her/its opinion regardless any action. In real life, there are many Jeff 
Williams. You cannot shut up them. You shall not shut up them. You must only 
prevent DoS attacks. Which is not the case. On the contrary, stopping Jeff, 
who is a benign contributor, might only trigger other less benign 
contributors to take different actions, that might be a real DoS.
Incidentally, I remember years ago, before the GA (even before ICANN), I was 
surprised by Jeff wishing Happy Thanksgiving to everybody on the list we 
happened to participate. You´ll never know. Well, I don´t know. The 
wonderful sentence by Jon Postel about being conservative in writing and 
liberal in reading might be appropriate. Anybody here can quote it exactly?

To Leah:
>As for the word fascist, the dictionary says this:
>
>   1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as 
>that   of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the 
>individual   and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed 
>by a   dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and 
>forcible   suppression of opposition
>   2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or   
>dictatorial control

Fine.
But I do believe that "your dictionary" only tells the Anglo-Saxon 
interpretation of the word "fascist".
Unfortunately, we Italians have the privilege to be the authority about the 
meaning, :<( so may I quote one of the authorities (IMHO, *THE* authority, 
your mileage may vary) [Gabrielli (1989), Mondadori, page 1449], whose only 
non-historical quote is "arrogant, tyrannical, violent person" (remark: 
Incidentally, the example happens to say "With this fascist you cannot even 
discuss").

About the Vittorio Bertola story:
I know personally Vittorio, and I can say not only that he is in good faith, 
but also that he puts his extra personal engagement for moving things 
forward. Incidentally, I am saying this against my personal interests, 
because Vittorio has run against me (and beaten me) for offices, and will 
probably do so in the future.
It is very easy to find things that people do wrong, except when people do 
nothing. By extension, we can say that the more people do, the more they 
will do wrong. What is the measure of things? Your mistakes? Or your 
successes?
I am frankly appalled by the many who only complain, judge, spit sentences 
(as we say in Italian), and never get their hands durty.

To Stéphane Bortzmeyer:
I followed the discussion on poisson (I also reported there on the situation 
in the GA), but I do believe they happen in two different contexts. The 
population of the poisson list is different from the GA list, and the people 
that contribute to the two pretend to speak for different communities. 
Rose´s draft fits there, I doubt it does hes here. Of course, I´d be 
delighted to be wrong.

Bottom line, anybody?
I´ll try one. Or two.
Do we really need to shutup a voice to make the information flow better?
Is censorship the favourite subject because we have little to say on ohters?

Regards
Roberto

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Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:56:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Albert Brickel <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Choose your own

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Scroll to the bottom of the list for Jeff Williams lies and antics in 2003.In response to the following rants from Jeff (Zombie-Kook) Williams find below some appropriate information: FROM: Jason Watkins 
DATE: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT) 
TO: <[email-masked]>   [atlarge-discuss] Reminder: Jeff Williams is mentally Ill 
Just a reminder and a repost of the Jeff Williams FAQ.  I see that Jeff Williams has been writing not as an individual, but in the plural again.  Using phrases like "At such time as we [INEGroup] have done a complete review" This is just a reminder that INEG group does not exist, that Jeff Williams is not to be taken seriously, and that he speaks only for himself and not for a group of over 100,000 people.  Frankly it is sad, and I wish he would get help.  Regular readers will ignore his inane ramblings, but new readers may be tricked into replying. Among the "nutsy-cukoo" things he has said in the last few weeks are: That he met personally with President George Bush in Waco Texas and that he is having secret email conversations with government officials. Here is the rest of the FAQ: 
Jeff Williams' FAQ. (99/01) 
- -- 1. Who is Jeff Williams? Jeffrey A. Williams,  has claimed in postings to various lists: 
- -- to be the Chief Executive Officer and the Co-Founder of the 4.8 billion dollar privately held employee owned INEG. INC 
- -- to be the Director of Internet Network Engineering and Senior Java/CORBA Engineer for the Information Network Engineering Group, INEG INC. 
- -- to be an ex-IBM Fellow, 
- -- to have to have graduated from UTD and to have a law degree from SMU Law School 
- -- to have three degrees, MBA, Masters in Computer Science and Engineering, and Law 
- -- to have served as a judge for 7 years 
- -- to be a member of the IETF -- to serve on several medium sized business boards and on the boards of several banks 
- -- to be the author of two books and is working on a third 
- -- to own 3 ISPs, including Frisco net, Deltanet and Wiltel, with 1.6 million users 
- -- to have been a fighter pilot with USMC, flying missions in Chile and for the DEA, as a reserve pilot in the USMC, stationed out of Grand Prairie air station just south of Dallas 
- -- to have been acting squadron commander of the Marine combat F4 squadron VMF214 (Black Sheep) at Tan Son Nhut during the Viet Nam war 
- -- to have spent several years in NIS (Naval Investigative Service) 
- -- Graduate of Naval Staff & War College 
- -- Retired Colonel, United States Marine Corps -- to own 8% of eBay However, 
- -- Jeff's 'INEG. INC' does not exist except as a fantasy in Jeff Williams' mind. 
- -- Jeff changed the name of the company in his .sig, in Jan 1998, from  'Information Eng. Group' to Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC., when the real Information Engineering Group <http://www.ieg-america.com/>, became aware of Jeff's use of their name. 
- -- SMU Law School Registrar's office, (214) 768-2618, disclaims all knowledge of Jeff. Jeffrey A. Williams is a fake and an imposter. 
- -- 2. Why should I take care in sending private email to Jeff Williams? He may post it to the list. Ironically, in his postings of others' private email so far the content has been counter-productive to his reputation and credibility. You should presume any email to him will posted to the list. 
- -- 3. Is there other material available on Jeff Williams? 
http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/03504.html
http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05347.html
http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05398.html
http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05525.html
http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08015.html     Please find below some additional claims he has made in 2002, regarding his exploits: 
1.  worked at CMA (an IT consulting firm) developing management principals (his spelling not mine) 
2.  worked for the United States government on a program called Krypto (must be top secret because a Google search reveals only that it was the dog companion of Superboy) 
3.  worked for Systems Administration, Networking, and Security Institute (sans.org) on BIND security 
4.  worked for the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) 
5.  worked for the Vietnam Veterans Association 
6.  worked for the Dallas Businessmen's Association (a Google search revealed no such organization) 
7.  worked for the United States Department of Defense as a project coordinator on the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) 
8.  worked for the World Trade Organization on General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) 
9.  worked on the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) 
10.  attended the Economic Summit meeting held by President George. W. Bush in Waco, TX, in August, 2002 
11.  worked for the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) for six (6) years on Internet Protocol Version 6 
12.  flew F-4, F-14, F-18 jets for the United States Marine Corps but is now retired
13.  is a private pilot
14.  to have served as a county judge for 1 year 8 months
15.  has a law degree and specializes in trademark, business, and antitrust law
16.  given award as "Outstanding Texan" by Texas Chamber of Commerce in 1998 (Google search reveals Chamber of Commerce are by city only; there is no Texas State Chamber of Commerce)
16.  performs volunteer police work (and carries a gun!) once a month in the state of Texas
17.  claims membership in both Texas State Republican Party and Texas State Democratic Party Caucuses
18.  his family has six attorneys on retainer, two for him, two for his elderly parents, and one each for his daughters
19.  teaches speed reading and basic reading courses to underprivileged children and adults (where does he find the time to do all this and still rant online?) 
20.  claims to have US$4555 in a trust account held for icannatlarge.org but will not reveal name of bank nor provide any proof of account (and says that he can raise US$100K more with little effort)
21.  is working with Richard Clark, Chairman of the U.S. Critical Infrastructure Protection Board (Cybersecurity Czar) and Andrew Card, Chief of Staff of U.S. President Geo. W. Bush Whitehouse Administration, on cyber security issues
22.  has over 23 years experience starting up companies including non-profit corporations
23.  intimidated and threatened to report a fellow member of ICANNatLarge.org to the U.S. Homeland Security Department and the F.B.I. for making a comment about President Bush (he claims to be on speaking terms with department managements)
  
The above items are directly from his OWN statements:
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00457.html 
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0208/msg00619.html 
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0208/msg00657.html 
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0209/msg00584.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00641.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00654.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00675.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg01053.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00106.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00200.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00303.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00313.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00410.html
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga-full/Arc11/msg02724.html 
Some other sources for the "real" Jeff Williams:
http://www.angelfire.com/clone/jeffwilliams/Please find below some additional claims he has made in 2003, regarding his exploits:
1.  alleges to be in the United States Government Federal Registry but a federal registry does not exist; although there is a Federal Register it has no association with any Jeff Williams persona regarding related fields or topics near what the Zombi/Kook rants (find out for yourself at http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aces140.html)
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0301/msg00258.
2.  claims to be a wireless internet provider for China although his fictitious company is not remotely connected with ISP and there is no reference anywhere through Google that mentions INEG and China in the same search except for postings by Jeff Williams (which means he references himself as proof he exists)
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00242.html 
3.  seems to have attracted another 2 thousand fictitious members to his fake corporation (from 127k to 129k) as stated by his signature
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00242.html 
4.  accused a fellow member of ICANNatLarge.org of cheating the outcome of several internet based elections and when challenged he only made more unfounded accusations and provided no proof
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0302/msg00400.html 
5.  always talks about members of INEG attending various internet related meetings but nobody ever sees them or speaks with them or even finds anyone wearing an INEG name tag , and Jeff always says "they are too busy to meet with you"
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00247.html 
6.  claims to be one of the originators of ARPANET
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00331.html
7.  claims to be an employee of the United States Government and threatened to sue another member as well as inform both U.S. and Canadian authorities of alleged illegal activities (the member was charged by Jeff of supposedly mailing the membership list without authority)
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00082.html
8.  claims to have over $6700 in funds for ICANNatLarge organization but does not provide proof the money exists
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00192.html
9.  claims to be an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.) of the United States Government
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00451.html
10.  talks about the openness and transparency of his alleged INEGroup but has never revealed even one member's name and, if pressured, will state that one can get the membership list via a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request by the United States Government law allowing access to records of Federal agencies (but he states that it is available from the FEC which is the Federal Election Commission which has nothing to do with INEGroup members)
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00466.html 
11.  claims to have over 11K members in INEGroup from mainland China
see: http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0305/msg00068.html

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<DIV>Scroll to the bottom of the list for Jeff Williams lies and antics in 2003.</DIV>
<DIV>In response to the following rants from Jeff (Zombie-Kook) Williams find below some appropriate information: </DIV>
<DIV>FROM: Jason Watkins <BR>DATE: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT) <BR>TO: &lt;<A href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; [atlarge-discuss] Reminder: Jeff Williams is mentally Ill </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Just a reminder and a repost of the Jeff Williams FAQ.&nbsp; I see that Jeff Williams has been writing not as an individual, but in the plural again.&nbsp; Using phrases like "At such time as we [INEGroup] have done a complete review" This is just a reminder that INEG group does not exist, that Jeff Williams is not to be taken seriously, and that he speaks only for himself and not for a group of over 100,000 people.&nbsp; Frankly it is sad, and I wish he would get help.&nbsp; Regular readers will ignore his inane ramblings, but new readers may be tricked into replying. Among the "nutsy-cukoo" things he has said in the last few weeks are: That he met personally with President George Bush in Waco Texas and that he is having secret email conversations with government officials. Here is the rest of the FAQ: <BR>Jeff Williams' FAQ. (99/01) <BR>-- 1. Who is Jeff Williams? Jeffrey A. Williams,&nbsp; has claimed in postings to various lists: <BR>-- to be the Chief Executive Officer and the Co-Founder of the 4.8 billion dollar privately held employee owned INEG. INC <BR>-- to be the Director of Internet Network Engineering and Senior Java/CORBA Engineer for the Information Network Engineering Group, INEG INC. <BR>-- to be an ex-IBM Fellow, <BR>-- to have to have graduated from UTD and to have a law degree from SMU Law School <BR>-- to have three degrees, MBA, Masters in Computer Science and Engineering, and Law <BR>-- to have served as a judge for 7 years <BR>-- to be a member of the IETF -- to serve on several medium sized business boards and on the boards of several banks <BR>-- to be the author of two books and is working on a third <BR>-- to own 3 ISPs, including Frisco net, Deltanet and Wiltel, with 1.6 million users <BR>-- to have been a fighter pilot with USMC, flying missions in Chile and for the DEA, as a reserve pilot in the USMC, stationed out of Grand Prairie air station just south of Dallas <BR>-- to have been acting squadron commander of the Marine combat F4 squadron VMF214 (Black Sheep) at Tan Son Nhut during the Viet Nam war <BR>-- to have spent several years in NIS (Naval Investigative Service) <BR>-- Graduate of Naval Staff &amp; War College <BR>-- Retired Colonel, United States Marine Corps -- to own 8% of eBay </DIV>
<DIV>However, <BR>-- Jeff's 'INEG. INC' does not exist except as a fantasy in Jeff Williams' mind. <BR>-- Jeff changed the name of the company in his .sig, in Jan 1998, from&nbsp; 'Information Eng. Group' to Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC., when the real Information Engineering Group &lt;<A href="http://www.ieg-america.com/">http://www.ieg-america.com/</A>&gt;, became aware of Jeff's use of their name. <BR>-- SMU Law School Registrar's office, (214) 768-2618, disclaims all knowledge of Jeff. Jeffrey A. Williams is a fake and an imposter. <BR>-- 2. Why should I take care in sending private email to Jeff Williams? He may post it to the list. Ironically, in his postings of others' private email so far the content has been counter-productive to his reputation and credibility. You should presume any email to him will posted to the list. <BR>-- 3. Is there other material available on Jeff Williams? <BR><A href="http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/03504.html">http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/03504.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05347.html">http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05347.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05398.html">http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05398.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05525.html">http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/05525.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08015.html">http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08015.html</A>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>Please find below some additional claims he has made in 2002, regarding his exploits: <BR>1.&nbsp; worked at CMA (an IT consulting firm) developing management principals (his spelling not mine) <BR>2.&nbsp; worked for the United States government on a program called Krypto (must be top secret because a Google search reveals only that it was the dog companion of Superboy) <BR>3.&nbsp; worked for Systems Administration, Networking, and Security Institute (sans.org) on BIND security <BR>4.&nbsp; worked for the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) <BR>5.&nbsp; worked for the Vietnam Veterans Association <BR>6.&nbsp; worked for the Dallas Businessmen's Association (a Google search revealed no such organization) <BR>7.&nbsp; worked for the United States Department of Defense as a project coordinator on the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) <BR>8.&nbsp; worked for the World Trade Organization on General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) <BR>9.&nbsp; worked on the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) <BR>10.&nbsp; attended the Economic Summit meeting held by President George. W. Bush in Waco, TX, in August, 2002 <BR>11.&nbsp; worked for the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) for six (6) years on Internet Protocol Version 6 <BR>12.&nbsp; flew F-4, F-14, F-18 jets for the United States Marine Corps but is now retired<BR>13.&nbsp; is a private pilot<BR>14.&nbsp; to have served as a county judge for 1 year 8 months<BR>15.&nbsp; has a law degree and specializes in trademark, business, and antitrust law<BR>16.&nbsp; given award as "Outstanding Texan" by Texas Chamber of Commerce in 1998 (Google search reveals Chamber of Commerce are by city only; there is no Texas State Chamber of Commerce)<BR>16.&nbsp; performs volunteer police work (and carries a gun!) once a month in the state of Texas<BR>17.&nbsp; claims membership in both Texas State Republican Party and Texas State Democratic Party Caucuses<BR>18.&nbsp; his family has six attorneys on retainer, two for him, two for his elderly parents, and one each for his daughters<BR>19.&nbsp; teaches speed reading and basic reading courses to underprivileged children and adults (where does he find the time to do all this and still rant online?) <BR>20.&nbsp; claims to have US$4555 in a trust account held for icannatlarge.org but will not reveal name of bank nor provide any proof of account (and says that he can raise US$100K more with little effort)<BR>21.&nbsp; is working with Richard Clark, Chairman of the U.S. Critical Infrastructure Protection Board (Cybersecurity Czar) and Andrew Card, Chief of Staff of U.S. President Geo. W. Bush Whitehouse Administration, on cyber security issues<BR>22.&nbsp; has over 23 years experience starting up companies including non-profit corporations<BR>23.&nbsp; intimidated and threatened to report a fellow member of ICANNatLarge.org to the U.S. Homeland Security Department and the F.B.I. for making a comment about President Bush (he claims to be on speaking terms with department managements)<BR>&nbsp; <BR>The above items are directly from his OWN statements:<BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00457.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00457.html</A> <BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0208/msg00619.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0208/msg00619.html</A> <BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0208/msg00657.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0208/msg00657.html</A> <BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0209/msg00584.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0209/msg00584.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00641.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00641.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00654.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00654.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00675.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00675.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg01053.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg01053.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00106.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00106.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00200.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00200.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00303.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00303.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00313.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00313.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00410.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00410.html</A><BR><A href="http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga-full/Arc11/msg02724.html">http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga-full/Arc11/msg02724.html</A> <BR>Some other sources for the "real" Jeff Williams:<BR><A href="http://www.angelfire.com/clone/jeffwilliams/">http://www.angelfire.com/clone/jeffwilliams/</A></DIV>
<DIV>Please find below some additional claims he has made in 2003, regarding his exploits:<BR>1.&nbsp; alleges to be in the United States Government Federal Registry but a federal registry does not exist; although there is a Federal Register it has no association with any Jeff Williams persona regarding related fields or topics near what the Zombi/Kook rants (find out for yourself at <A href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aces140.html">http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aces140.html</A>)<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0301/msg00258">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0301/msg00258</A>.<BR>2.&nbsp; claims to be a wireless internet provider for China although his fictitious company is not remotely connected with ISP and there is no reference anywhere through Google that mentions INEG and China in the same search except for postings by Jeff Williams (which means he references himself as proof he exists)<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00242.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00242.html</A> <BR>3.&nbsp; seems to have attracted another 2 thousand fictitious members to his fake corporation (from 127k to 129k) as stated by his signature<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00242.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00242.html</A> <BR>4.&nbsp; accused a fellow member of ICANNatLarge.org of cheating the outcome of several internet based elections and when challenged he only made more unfounded accusations and provided no proof<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0302/msg00400.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0302/msg00400.html</A> <BR>5.&nbsp; always talks about members of INEG attending various internet related meetings but nobody ever sees them or speaks with them or even finds anyone wearing an INEG name tag , and Jeff always says "they are too busy to meet with you"<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00247.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00247.html</A> <BR>6.&nbsp; claims to be one of the originators of ARPANET<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00331.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0303/msg00331.html</A><BR>7.&nbsp; claims to be an employee of the United States Government and threatened to sue another member as well as inform both U.S. and Canadian authorities of alleged illegal activities (the member was charged by Jeff of supposedly mailing the membership list without authority)<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00082.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00082.html</A><BR>8.&nbsp; claims to have over $6700 in funds for ICANNatLarge organization but does not provide proof the money exists<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00192.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00192.html</A><BR>9.&nbsp; claims to be an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.) of the United States Government<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00451.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00451.html</A><BR>10.&nbsp; talks about the openness and transparency of his alleged INEGroup but has never revealed even one member's name and, if pressured, will state that one can get the membership list via a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request by the United States Government law allowing access to records of Federal agencies (but he states that it is available from the FEC which is the Federal Election Commission which has nothing to do with INEGroup members)<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00466.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0304/msg00466.html</A> <BR>11.&nbsp; claims to have over 11K members in INEGroup from mainland China<BR>see: <A href="http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0305/msg00068.html">http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0305/msg00068.html</A><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 20:20:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] GoDaddy: "We adamantly oppose the WLS as proposed and intend to use any means available to block its implementation"

Hello,

GoDaddy's complete letter to ICANN has been posted at:

http://www.icann.org/correspondence/parsons-to-halloran-08may03.htm

As a sign of what can happen in a free and competitive market, GoDaddy
has innovated and come out with its own DomainAlert system, which
attempts to acquire deleted domains on behalf of their clients. This
creates yet another choice for consumers.

ICANN's Reconsideration Committee has an opportunity to gain some
legitimacy and respect by following the consensus policy established at
the Names Council, namely to deny WLS. To do otherwise will simply
squander further legal resources, and set the stage for yet another
humiliating defeat in court as registrars enforce the terms of their
contracts against ICANN to block WLS.

Other registrars who support competition and innovation should take the
time to voice their position on this important appeal.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/
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Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:34:01 +0200
From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] [fwd] [alac] Fwd: [gtld-com] Draft final report (v4) (from: [email-masked])

FYI.  Comments on both the draft and ALAC's statement so far can be
sent to [email-masked]; they'll be archived at
http://forum.icann.org/alac-forum/.

Regards,
- -- 
Thomas Roessler			<[email-masked]>

- ----- Forwarded message from Wendy Seltzer <[email-masked]> -----

From: Wendy Seltzer <[email-masked]>
To: Interim ALAC <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 17:57:29 -0700
Subject: [alac] Fwd: [gtld-com] Draft final report (v4)
Envelope-to: [email-masked]
Delivery-date: Sat, 10 May 2003 02:59:01 +0200
X-No-Spam: whitelist

Here's the GNSO gTLDs committee's latest draft (rudimentary HTML 
conversion at 
<http://wendy.seltzer.org/icann/gTLDS_committee_conclusions_v4.html> )

It seems to have changed considerably from the version we commented 
upon, and now recommends a more highly structured space with more 
specific criteria for approval of new gTLDs.  We had endorsed the 
earlier statement that any "structure" should come from user demand, 
fostering competition, and avoiding confusion.  Although the ALAC 
does not have a vote in the GNSOs "gTLDs Committee of the Whole", we 
can still offer further comments, and may want to consider sending 
comments directly to the Board as well.

I'm concerned that the detailed recommendations perpetuate the 
"beauty contest" mode of selecting new gTLDs rather than making name 
addition a routine process.

- --Wendy

>From: "Philip Sheppard" <[email-masked]>
>To: "Council gTLds" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: [gtld-com] Draft final report (v4)
>
>
>Please find attached a draft final report for the Council gTLDs committee.
>The report attempts to include input received via the various 
>telephone conferences and written papers sent to the group.The 
>report itself is just 3 pages but there are 15 pages of attachments 
>of the written papers received. Print with caution! The report seeks 
>to answer the question asked of us by the Board and in so 
>doing seeks to provide appropriate recommendations in accordance 
>with the role of the GNSO as outlined in X.1 of the by-laws.
>
>Your comments are welcome. This or a revised version will be 
>submitted for adoption at the May 22 meeting of Council in 
>accordance with the timetable agreed with Council chair and the 
>ICANN Board. In order to give all parties a reasonable time I 
>request first comments no later than May 16, which will then allow 
>Council just under a week to consider any revision.
>
>Philip
>
>

- -- 
- --
Wendy Seltzer -- [email-masked] || [email-masked]
Staff Attorney, Electronic Frontier Foundation
Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html

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Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:59:02 +0100
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: Choose your own

Thanks for these intelligent remarks, Roberto.

I do not wish to demean the memory of the victims of true fascism. Those are
too many millions of intimate family tragedies and devastated communities.

Your remarks deserve serious reflection.

Richard H

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Roberto Gaetano <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>;
<[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 1:14 AM
Subject: Choose your own

> Hi.
> I´m catching up with email, and when I saw the huge backlog piled up in
few
> days I thought that something really serious had happened.
> What a relief to see it was only the periodic remake of the "censorhip is
> good/bad" movie.
> I´m cumulating the answers, not necessarily in priority nor in
chronological
> order.
>
> Richard Henderson:
> >  I suspect that the German sense of humour is the problem here.
>
> Yuo´re right, but it´s probably the European sense of humour, more than
the
> German alone. Although we (Italians) mostly make fun of the German sense
of
> humour, I have to admit my solidarity with the Germans here.
> You quote sketches I unfortunately did not see, neither I´m aware of, so I
> might be off mark, but I don´t underestimate the sensitivity to a tragedy
> that has hit a great part (if not even the vast majority) of Europeans. We
> also have sketches on TV, but we take personal offense to be compared to
> people, like the fascists and the nazists, who have caused several
millions
> deaths. The size of few thousands twin towers blowups. In fact, there are
> lots of similarities. First of all, the victims were innocent. Their
fault,
> in the case of AlQaida´, to be there. In the case of fascists and nazists,
> to be of a certain race or religion, or to have certain sexual
inclination,
> or other factors that you cannot easily control (and for which you should
> not be discriminated in first place).
> Try to think of thousands of 9/11 over few years, affecting most of the
> families in a country, and you will realize how the sense of humour might
be
> affected for generations. Of course, Europeans have to get out of it, but
> please understand that it is not easy.
>
> To the general issue of "censorship":
> Well, I am *not* against censorship, but I do believe that it is justified
> only in extereme circumstances, and under the control of an appropriate
body
> who applies rules decided *before* the event. As an example, I do believe
> that (please forgive methe abused example) screaming "Fire" in an
> overcrowded theatre is not expression of free speech, that journalists on
> the front in case of war cannot divulgate any piece of information they
> have, and so on.
> So I agree with the principle of censorship (under extreme and controlled
> circumstances) but I disagree on how it was applied here.
> I personally know how INEGroup grows only through the replies of other
> participants of this list. I firmly believe that those who are annoyed by
> Jeff Williams posts have long ago learned how to deal with this. Those who
> think that INEGroup is a legitimate stakeholder of this process, are going
> only to be confirmed that there is an international plot against the
> legitimate interests of the cowboys of Grapewine. Everybody will keep
> his/her/its opinion regardless any action. In real life, there are many
Jeff
> Williams. You cannot shut up them. You shall not shut up them. You must
only
> prevent DoS attacks. Which is not the case. On the contrary, stopping
Jeff,
> who is a benign contributor, might only trigger other less benign
> contributors to take different actions, that might be a real DoS.
> Incidentally, I remember years ago, before the GA (even before ICANN), I
was
> surprised by Jeff wishing Happy Thanksgiving to everybody on the list we
> happened to participate. You´ll never know. Well, I don´t know. The
> wonderful sentence by Jon Postel about being conservative in writing and
> liberal in reading might be appropriate. Anybody here can quote it
exactly?
>
> To Leah:
> >As for the word fascist, the dictionary says this:
> >
> >   1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as
> >that   of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the
> >individual   and that stands for a centralized autocratic government
headed
> >by a   dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and
> >forcible   suppression of opposition
> >   2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
> >dictatorial control
>
> Fine.
> But I do believe that "your dictionary" only tells the Anglo-Saxon
> interpretation of the word "fascist".
> Unfortunately, we Italians have the privilege to be the authority about
the
> meaning, :<( so may I quote one of the authorities (IMHO, *THE* authority,
> your mileage may vary) [Gabrielli (1989), Mondadori, page 1449], whose
only
> non-historical quote is "arrogant, tyrannical, violent person" (remark:
> Incidentally, the example happens to say "With this fascist you cannot
even
> discuss").
>
>
> About the Vittorio Bertola story:
> I know personally Vittorio, and I can say not only that he is in good
faith,
> but also that he puts his extra personal engagement for moving things
> forward. Incidentally, I am saying this against my personal interests,
> because Vittorio has run against me (and beaten me) for offices, and will
> probably do so in the future.
> It is very easy to find things that people do wrong, except when people do
> nothing. By extension, we can say that the more people do, the more they
> will do wrong. What is the measure of things? Your mistakes? Or your
> successes?
> I am frankly appalled by the many who only complain, judge, spit sentences
> (as we say in Italian), and never get their hands durty.
>
> To Stéphane Bortzmeyer:
> I followed the discussion on poisson (I also reported there on the
situation
> in the GA), but I do believe they happen in two different contexts. The
> population of the poisson list is different from the GA list, and the
people
> that contribute to the two pretend to speak for different communities.
> Rose´s draft fits there, I doubt it does hes here. Of course, I´d be
> delighted to be wrong.
>
> Bottom line, anybody?
> I´ll try one. Or two.
> Do we really need to shutup a voice to make the information flow better?
> Is censorship the favourite subject because we have little to say on
ohters?
>
> Regards
> Roberto
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1691
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