Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1635
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Monday, March 17 2003           Volume 01 : Number 1635

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:28:06 -0600
From: Andy Gardner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] so you want to become a registry?

At 1:19 AM +0100 3/16/03, [email-masked] wrote:
>May I ask why do you hate New.net? Any reason for that?

http://www.pestpatrol.com/PestInfo/N/NewNet_Adware.asp ???

- -- 
Andrew P. Gardner
barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:16:58 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] so you want to become a registry?

Thanks for the link. 
"It [New.net software] is not overtly harmful in intent."
"Advertising? No. 
Privacy Violation? No." 

- --> New.net software is no spyware. 

If one hates New.net, don't download it.

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Gardner" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] so you want to become a registry?

> At 1:19 AM +0100 3/16/03, [email-masked] wrote:
> >May I ask why do you hate New.net? Any reason for that?
> 
> http://www.pestpatrol.com/PestInfo/N/NewNet_Adware.asp ???
> 
> -- 
> Andrew P. Gardner
> barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
> We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
> Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
> --
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> 

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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 15:55:48 -0500
From: "L. Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] so you want to become a registry?

That's interesting, Andy.  The link you provided states that the plug-in 
is installed with RealNetworks, yet I don't have it on my system and do 
have RealOne Player.  

I have to agree that if it is installed with unrelated software and is not 
made clear to the user, it is indeed malware, IMO, since it changes DNS 
settings without the user knowing about it.  It should always be an 
option, not stealthware.

Intuit got themselves into trouble with users over the installation of 
Safecast which alters some usability on systems and writes to a sector 
that cannot be easily erased.  NewNet plug-in, if it is being installed 
surrepticiously, is just as bad since it will replace the domains users 
might wish to access with its own (many of which are duplicates of pre-
existing domains) with no warning.  If it is installed by choice, that is 
something else.  

Anyone from New.Net care to comment?

Leah

On 16 Mar 2003 at 11:28, Andy Gardner wrote:

> At 1:19 AM +0100 3/16/03, [email-masked] wrote:
> >May I ask why do you hate New.net? Any reason for that?
> 
> http://www.pestpatrol.com/PestInfo/N/NewNet_Adware.asp ???
> 
> -- 
> Andrew P. Gardner
> barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP? We
> could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare? Get
> active: http://www.tldlobby.com -- This message was passed to you via the
> [email-masked] list. Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message). Archives at
> http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> 
> 

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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:45:33 -0500
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website

> Moreover, there is absolutely nothing to prevent the "At-Large
> Community", or portions of it, from forming one or more websites of
> their own, and I'm sure that they will.
>
> Kent

No. There is a substantial roadblock in the way, namely ICANN, which
systematically destroys every self-organizing attempt by genuine
participants - by engaging in the tactics of pre-emption, by diluting
organizing panels with top down appointees, by witholding available
administrative resources, by ridiculing positive initiatives. Now we see the
"At Large Community" "reforming" behind closed doors, using ICANN appointees
to the ALAC to quietly dismantle the last vestiges of activism.
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/0303/maillist.html
Well done. When can we expect you to rebuild the Icannatlarge.org website?

Regards,
Joanna

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:13:36 +0100
From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website

On 2003-03-16 20:45:33 -0500, Joanna Lane wrote:
> Now we see the "At Large Community" "reforming" behind closed
> doors, using ICANN appointees to the ALAC to quietly dismantle
> the last vestiges of activism.
> http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/0303/maillist.html 

That just means that that particular list hasn't been used this
month...  Which is sad, but certainly not ICANN's (or the ALAC's)
fault.

Regards,
- -- 
Thomas Roessler				<[email-masked]>
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:18:26 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 06:04:42PM +0100,
 J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 17 lines which said:

> As far as I known it CCITT was not a monster. X.400 as you know
> introduced/stabilized key network features. 

:-) Even the ITU did not use X400. Can you imagine the IETF SMTP
working group not using email? But ITU did it.

> X.7X series were nice work. No spam in those days. 

Sure. It never worked. When there is no mail, there is no spam.

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:22:21 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] so you want to become a registry?

On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 02:56:05PM -0800,
 Doug Mehus <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 34 lines which said:

> Very cool stuff, Danny! Now, if only we can convince all of the
> major ccTLD administrators to use OpenReg as their Registry software,
> we'd be doing well. 

I agree that OpenReg is a very good program but I'm not sure that most
of the users are really interested in what program we run. We should
discuss of the *features* and *services* offered by the Registry, the
actual software is less important.

> I'm Canadian, and I know that it would be awesome
> if CIRA decided to use OpenReg. Imagine... a .ca domain name becoming
> active in only a few short minutes. ;)

I do not see the connection between using OpenReg and activating the
domain in a few minutes. With OpenReg, you run the zone file generator
when you decide and it can be only once a week...

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:07:28 +0100
From: Vittorio Bertola <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] so you want to become a registry? 

On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:14:50 EST, you wrote:

>FYI (From the registrars' list):
>
>Yes, everyone has thought about becoming a registry at some time. Now
>there is a freely available implementation of EPP. Its written by the
>folks at ISC, the same organization that develops bind9.
>
>you can read all about it at http://www.isc.org/products/OpenReg/
>
>I personally think this is real cool stuff.

I think this is great news - especially the smaller ccTLDs, which
still have to experience mass registrations, could benefit from such a
tool to help them afford the growth. Also an open source registry
platform potentially is a great tool for non-profit and free voluntary
registries to offer better services to their community while not
having to re-invent the wheel every time.
- -- 
vb.                  [Vittorio Bertola - vb [at] bertola.eu.org]<---
- -------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:54:02 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephane Bortzmeyer [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, 17 March 2003 10:18
> To: J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin
> Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC
> comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)
> 
> 
> :-) Even the ITU did not use X400. Can you imagine the IETF SMTP
> working group not using email? But ITU did it.

As far as I know, there were no wide-scale implementations of X.400
(although there were various prototypes, tests, etc.).

You can't use what isn't available.

And the decision to implement, or not, X.400 was made by companies on a
commercial basis, as are the decisions to implement, or not, any other ITU-T
Recommendation, or any IETF RFC, or any ISO or IEEE standard.

I have the distinct impression that some people still don't understand what
ITU-T is or what it does.  Once again, ITU-T is an organization that
produces non-binding standards, just like IETF.  The ITU-T standards are
called Recommendations.  They are written by and approved by the ITU-T's
membership, which consists of both governments and private companies.  There
is a permanent ITU-T staff (of which I am part), called the TSB.  The
function of this staff is to facilitate the work of the members who write
the Recommendations, by organizing meetings, maintaining the web site,
publishing recommendations, etc.  The staff does not write Recommendations
and cannot vote on their approval.  

Best,
Richard
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:39:52 +0100
From: Vittorio Bertola <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website

On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:45:33 -0500, you wrote:

>No. There is a substantial roadblock in the way, namely ICANN, which
>systematically destroys every self-organizing attempt by genuine
>participants - by engaging in the tactics of pre-emption, by diluting
>organizing panels with top down appointees, by witholding available
>administrative resources, by ridiculing positive initiatives. Now we see the
>"At Large Community" "reforming" behind closed doors, using ICANN appointees
>to the ALAC to quietly dismantle the last vestiges of activism.
>http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/0303/maillist.html

There have been no messages on the icannatlarge.org panel list since
the end of February, for the simple reason that there is no
icannatlarge.org panel any more. New elections are due soon.
- -- 
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- -------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 05:35:46 -0500
From: Joanna Lane <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website

> > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/0303/maillist.html
>
> That just means that that particular list hasn't been used this
> month...  Which is sad, but certainly not ICANN's (or the ALAC's)
> fault.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Thomas Roessler

Then why does ICANN continue to trade on the names of individuals who are
quite obviously not involved? ICANN claims Icannatlarge as it's only
worldwide At Large Structure
<http://www.at-large.org/at-large-structures.htm>, on a website built and
maintained by ICANN Stiffer Kent Crispin. In turn, this "approved" At Large
Structure publishes a website, now under the control of ICANN ALAC
Appointees, claims it is run by a completely fictitious Organizing
Committee, the majority of Panelists having resigned, some more than 6
months ago, http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/

"The panel elected in late July 2002 consists of the following individuals:

Vittorio Bertola
Vivek Durai
Michael Geist
Satyajit Gupta
Richard Henderson
Hans Klein
Joanna Lane
James Love
Jefsey Morfin
Judith Oppenheimer
YJ Park"

This is but one example of how ICANN creates the illusion of At Large
participation through a Structure that does not exist in the form it is
proclaimed to be. And whatever criticism can be laid at the ITU-T door -
such as lack of individual membership - lack of non commercial organization
membership - document fees and so on, one really can't get over the fact
that the ICANN advocated alternatives only exist in the ALAC imagination.

Regards,
Joanna

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:42:44 +0100
From: "J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website

On 11:39 17/03/03, Vittorio Bertola said:
>There have been no messages on the icannatlarge.org panel list since
>the end of February, for the simple reason that there is no
>icannatlarge.org panel any more. New elections are due soon.

Interesting. It should be known to all that:

1. Vittorio Bertola is the Chair of the Icannatlarge Panel

2. Vittorio Bertola is the Chair of the WG-Web maintaining
     the site discussed by Joanna, being the only one
     having the password.

3. there is a panel made of three not resigning Panelists
     including Vittorio Bertola, and there is a list of elected
     replacements that Viottorio refused to call. We will note
     that the last Panelist to resign were bored out by
     Vittorio innaction and that after the last resignation
     Vittorio ran a 8 days long vote of the Panel.

4. New elections are blocked because Vittorio Bertola
     made sure that the list of the Members would be
     given to two members with no mandate and no way
     to proceed, rather than to the Panel he chairs, as
     he publicly committed, and as any non ICANNer
     would do.

I thought that correcting a few erroneous details in the
valuable communication of the ALAC Chair, could help
better understanding the ICANN semantic. In ICANNers
language NO means YES, etc. Once you understdood
that, they become an as reliable source of information
as any other one.
jfc

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:43:40 +0100
From: Vittorio Bertola <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website

On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:42:44 +0100, you wrote:

>2. Vittorio Bertola is the Chair of the WG-Web maintaining
>     the site discussed by Joanna, being the only one
>     having the password.

False. I gave the password to the watchdogs. And I am not Chair of anything
any more.

>3. there is a panel made of three not resigning Panelists
>     including Vittorio Bertola, and there is a list of elected
>     replacements that Viottorio refused to call. We will note
>     that the last Panelist to resign were bored out by
>     Vittorio innaction and that after the last resignation
>     Vittorio ran a 8 days long vote of the Panel.

You fail to mention that the three not resigning Panelists, including you,
voted unanimously to have new elections rather than call replacements in and
continue working. I simply applied what we decided. You could have voted
against the election if you didn't want the Panel to stop working.

>4. New elections are blocked because Vittorio Bertola
>     made sure that the list of the Members would be
>     given to two members with no mandate and no way
>     to proceed, rather than to the Panel he chairs, as
>     he publicly committed, and as any non ICANNer
>     would do.

This was my decision (given the complete lack of rules about what to do in
this case) to ensure the exact opposite - that elections would actually
happen, and that the rest of the Panel would not be able to cancel them. If
there are practical problems that prevent the election from happening, I
have said a number of times that I am available to help the watchdogs.

>I thought that correcting a few erroneous details in the
>valuable communication of the ALAC Chair, could help
>better understanding the ICANN semantic. In ICANNers
>language NO means YES, etc. Once you understdood
>that, they become an as reliable source of information
>as any other one.

Jefsey, I might say the same about you and all your dramatic postings, with
which apparently you are trying to put pressure on me so that I give the
list to you and you can actually put your hands on the organization. Why
can't we simply have elections and let the members vote on who should lead
them, rather than you and Bruce ruling the organization alone? There's no
necessity for you to have the membership list before the elections.
- -- 
vb.               [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a] bertola.eu.org]<------
- --------> http://bertola.eu.org/ - Archivio FAQ e molto altro... <--------
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:09:17 +0100
From: "J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] ALAC Chairs resignation

Intersting, because it shows the way ICANNers wants to rule us.
Whithout interest oterwise.

At 17:43 17/03/03, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
>False. I gave the password to the watchdogs. And I am not Chair of 
>anything any more.

King Joop, you may now be a candidate as an ALAC Chair.

>You fail to mention that the three not resigning Panelists, including you,
>voted unanimously to have new elections rather than call replacements in and
>continue working. I simply applied what we decided. You could have voted
>against the election if you didn't want the Panel to stop working.

We never vote anything like that. You made us to waste 10 days voting on 
what we all asked for weeks, elections in good order, respecting the rules 
and the legitimacy.

>This was my decision (given the complete lack of rules about what to do in
>this case) to ensure the exact opposite - that elections would actually
>happen, and that the rest of the Panel would not be able to cancel them.

Let enjoy this.

When I say that ICANNers say YES for NO. We voted for election and
you committed to give the Panel the Members list so we could organize
them. Then you "ensured he exact opposite" in giving the list to people
unable/unwilling to organize election.

>If there are practical problems that prevent the election from happening, I
>have said a number of times that I am available to help the watchdogs.

Their fuits judge the trees. Where are the elections results?

>Jefsey, I might say the same about you and all your dramatic postings, with
>which apparently you are trying to put pressure on me so that I give the
>list to you and you can actually put your hands on the organization.

When I say that ICANNers ... :-)

I committed to serve that organization through its election because
it is my duty to do it. To make sure that I could never "put my hands"
I published I would not be a candidate.

I am just a democrat. Not an ICANNer....

>Why can't we simply have elections and let the members vote
>on who should lead them, rather than you and Bruce ruling the
>organization alone?

When I say that ICANNers say YES for NO ....:-)

Bruce and me got a duty in being elected. We try to protect an
action which actually is very similar to the GAn from you. .

But as soon as these elections are over, believe me I will
not do anything there. Ruling ??? Bruce and me ????
Childish.

But may be another one will return you your help:
http://www.icannatlarge.com/voting.htm

>There's no necessity for you to have the
>membership list before the elections.

Better to have the voters list before to run an election.
But you did not want that election.

What for now you resigned every Chair you had?
BTW a right move: putting your hands on the ALAC
was not your style.

jfc

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1635
*************************