Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1627
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Tuesday, March 11 2003           Volume 01 : Number 1627

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:49:44 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [ga] Karl's latest posting

> -----Original Message-----
> From: L. Gallegos [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Sunday, 09 March 2003 19:11
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] Karl's latest posting
> 
> 
> If I am not mistaken, Karl's post was a bit sarcastic in that neither 
> ICANN nor the ITU represent the entire user community, but 
> only special 
> interests and government respectively.  The users  have no 
> voice in either 
> organization.  

As you can see from

http://www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/mm/scripts/mm.list?_search=SEC&_languageid=1

(scroll down to the bottom), there are many non-profit organizations who are
members of ITU.  Some of those represent telecommunications users.

Also, consumers are represented in ITU-T through their governments, and I
can assure you that issues related to consumers are regularly brought up.

Best,
Richard
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:45:02 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Auerbach [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Sunday, 09 March 2003 0:43
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC
> comments on proposed Bylaws modifications)
> 
>     ITU Participants who have actual roles in the making of policy:
>       - Governments (through formally appointed representatives) 
>       - Selected industries

A very minor quibble.  I would say "self-selected industry members", since
any commercial company or non-profit organization can apply for membership
in ITU.

Best,
Richard
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:15:16 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Baptista [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, 10 March 2003 16:34
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC
> comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> > Anybody can download up to three ITU-T Recommendations per 
> year for free
> > from our web site.
> >
> > I agree that this is not the same as IETF or ICANN where 
> everything is
> > available for free.
> 
> Richard - may i make a recommendation to you.  To remain relevant in
> cyberspace you can't put up roadblocks to propaganda.  The 
> only people who
> are going to be interested in it are indeed very small in 
> number.  If you
> want to be relevant to the internet community then you make your stuff
> free.

Our publication policy is set by our membership (that is, consensus of
Member States and Sector Members), not by the ITU staff.

I will pass your suggestion (which has arisen before) to the members with
whom I'm in touch.

> 
> This policy is one of those dino affairs.  Obvioulsy the ITU is run by
> professional bureacrats

As mentioned above, the publication policy is set by the membership, not the
staff.

Best,
Richard Hill

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:03:33 -0500
From: Ken Stubbs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comments on proposed Bylaws modifications)

Can i assume here from your statement then that:
1. ITU allows commercial companies & non-profit organizations to apply for
membership.

2. governments assume the role as the spokesman for individuals ?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comments
on proposed Bylaws modifications)

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Karl Auerbach [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > Sent: Sunday, 09 March 2003 0:43
> > To: [email-masked]
> > Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC
> > comments on proposed Bylaws modifications)
> >
> >     ITU Participants who have actual roles in the making of policy:
> >       - Governments (through formally appointed representatives)
> >       - Selected industries
>
> A very minor quibble.  I would say "self-selected industry members", since
> any commercial company or non-profit organization can apply for membership
> in ITU.
>
> Best,
> Richard
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>
>
>

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:19:37 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Stubbs [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, 10 March 2003 18:04
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC
> comments on proposed Bylaws modifications)
> 
> Can i assume here from your statement then that:
> 1. ITU allows commercial companies & non-profit organizations 
> to apply for
> membership.

Yes.

> 
> 2. governments assume the role as the spokesman for individuals ?

What I have observed is that governments tend to bring up consumer-related
issues in ITU, as appropriate.  Most consumer-related issues are national
matters, and so not discussed in ITU.

An individual might also find that his or her interests are represented by
some other organization, either a non-profit, or a commercial company.  It
depends very much on the specifics.

Best,
Richard

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:36:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment  s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

Dear richard - i think i'm falling in love - some civil servants appeal to
my better half.  ... so let us proceed ... seems to me unlike some of the
civil service snot around here you pay attention.  and thats rare to find
in the bureacracy.  thanks for the refresher - now on to the questions at
hand.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 [email-masked] wrote:

> > Richard - may i make a recommendation to you.  To remain relevant in
> > cyberspace you can't put up roadblocks to propaganda.  The
> > only people who
> > are going to be interested in it are indeed very small in
> > number.  If you
> > want to be relevant to the internet community then you make your stuff
> > free.
>
> Our publication policy is set by our membership (that is, consensus of
> Member States and Sector Members), not by the ITU staff.

well that explains the nonsense.  governments are idiots when it come to
net policy.  the internet as i have repeatedly pointed out is controlled
at the ends.  that is at user level.  i think we all know the icann policy
of hyping the dns to the status of religious iconolgy is a ficticious bit
of bull.

so to appeal to users is the goal.  the users power in all of this has
remained a silent issue.  it is the users that you need to sell.

now - i'm pleased to see the itu is trying to sell us on the great itu
icann takeover.  it will be a disaster if it is not user driven.  the
powers that be must realize that the scales of power and control of espace
can not ever be the same as that one gets in meat space.  existing
meanspace is finite - i.e. that third planet called earth - unless of
course the stars become our goal.  but for all practical purposes it is
finite.  and finite systems are easy to control.

however espace is infinite and trasparent to time.  data accumulates etc.
etc. etc.  and espace is only limited by the numbers of bits and bytes one
can fit on the head of a pin.  which essentially means an entire universe
can be created on the head of a pin.  namespace is part if the process of
creating that expansion - what icann has done is crazy.  it has been the
propagation of a false monopoly and the creation of a false scarcity of
names at the top level.  thats the biggest nonsense i have ever seen in my
whole life.  watching bureacrats limiting namespace and the bullshit that
results.  fallout.  and lots of it.  i think the itu is in an excellent
place to take over icann - but without user support those governments are
going to look like fools.  namespace is what i like to call a pandoras
box.  once opened your guranteed the icann yellow brick road treatment -
unless you can get the users on your side.

and itu policies as they exist do not allow joe average users or mrs.
nobody to participate - and it should be at no cost.  if the itu wants to
run namespace you better get ready to subsidize user participation - or
you'll end up as relevant and laughable as icann.  namespace has ruined
reputaions - look at an excellent disaster - the dyson critter.  she went
from guru to big booboo real fast.  the same treatment is guranteed of the
itu if it ddoes not cover it's ass and vbring the users in.

internet governance starts at the user level.  anyone wanting to
centralize it is gurantted a kick in the ass.

and the itu can do this with simple user permission and participation.
icanns control of the root does not exist.  the root server operators will
bend to the way of the community.  and those legacy roots must be replace.
look at the data from caida and see for yourself.  caida is funded by the
spooks at darpa FYI - which see

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29185.html

> I will pass your suggestion (which has arisen before) to the members with
> whom I'm in touch.

you do that.  also pass along a kick to each head - maybe their brain
jiuce will coagulate fast enought to respond to immediate needs.  this
windows for the itu to take action will not last forever.  you need to
actu quickly and become an inclusive - or create an inclusive internation
organization of users - as equals.  commercial - non profit or state are
equals.

but i doubt the memberstates will be appropriately responsive and the
result will be failure if you try the icann takeover.

>
> >
> > This policy is one of those dino affairs.  Obvioulsy the ITU is run by
> > professional bureacrats
>
> As mentioned above, the publication policy is set by the membership, not the
> staff.

my appologies to the staff.  the blame is best left at the foot of
governments.

regards
joe baptista

Joe Baptista - only at www.baptista.god

          .film domain registration available at http://www.register.film
             another inclusive namespace Top Level Domain

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:13:56 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

Richard and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,

  Gee, three free recommendations!  How magnanimous of the ITU! >:)
Is Mayo extra?  How many free downloadable recommendations
do ITU member organizations get?  Do associate members get
any extra free recommendations?  Can they get Mayo with that
for free too? Or is that extra?  >;)

  Will I be getting an invoice for sending you this E-mail also Richard?
If so, don't expect payment in your lifetime, as I will use it for
toilet paper...  >;)

  One heck of a racket the ITU has here boyo!  >;)

[email-masked] wrote:

> Please see below for free access to ITU-T Recommendations.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marc Schneiders [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > Sent: Monday, 10 March 2003 4:46
> > To: [email-masked]
> > Cc: [email-masked]
> > Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC
> > comment s on proposed Bylaws modifications)
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, at 09:55 [=GMT+0100], [email-masked] wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yes, but to read the text you mention, [ITU-T Recommendation E.164.1] so
> that one
> > knows how  to apply, one
> > has to make a small investment. 20 Swiss Franks for 20 pages.
>
> Anybody can download up to three ITU-T Recommendations per year for free
> from our web site.
>
> I agree that this is not the same as IETF or ICANN where everything is
> available for free.
>
> Best,
> Richard Hill
> --
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:42:38 +0100 (CET)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment  s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, at 14:31 [=GMT+0100], [email-masked] wrote:

[I wrote:]
> > Yes, but to read the text you mention, [ITU-T Recommendation E.164.1] so
> that one
> > knows how  to apply, one
> > has to make a small investment. 20 Swiss Franks for 20 pages.
>
> Anybody can download up to three ITU-T Recommendations per year for free
> from our web site.
>
> I agree that this is not the same as IETF or ICANN where everything is
> available for free.

Or WIPO, IIRC. Makes one think about IntProp.

It isn't enough, 3 texts. There are more than 3 documents about e.164. So
anyone interesting in _studying_ e.164, has to come up with cash, or
cannot get the full ITU picture. I must say that I find it outrageous that
we are charged to be able to participate. This does not at all suggest
that there is a open bottom up process. And even apart from participation,
standards should be freely available. It is the best road to get them
implemented, I guess.

I can understand there is a charge for printed material, as long as it is
at cost. For downloading _official_ electronic texts from a UN
organization there should be no charge. Unless there are reasons why it is
good that as little people as possible actually read the texts. Could be.

I do understand that the ITU needs financing. But the path it has chosen,
to do this in part by charging for texts, has the side effect that it will
make participation more difficult, except for companies. Is that what you
want?

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:44:11 -0800
From: Barbara Simons <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: A Question for the Candidates

If I am elected to the ICANN Board, I shall work at making the Board and its
decision making process more open, responsible, and transparent.  In
particular, I pledge to:

    * Be accessible and responsive to the members of the public;
    * Create an advisory group of experts in technological, policy,
economics, and the law;
    * Work to build a decision-making process that is open and inclusive -
and that involves two-way communications from the Board to the public and
from the public to the Board;
    * Establish well defined procedures that will allow sufficient time for
people to read and comment on issues, proposals, and initiatives;
    * Guarantee that policy decisions are initiated and made by the Board,
not by the staff.

One of the aspects of having well defined procedures is that issues would
not be voted on without first providing the public with reasonable notice
and the opportunity to comment.  Votes would be made in public and the
results, together with how the individual Board members voted, would be
posted in a prominent location on the ICANN website.

I am uncomfortable with the idea of requiring that all email among Board
members be made public.  I think that such a step would inhibit the give and
take that is required in order for a body to reach a negotiated decision.
Based on my experiences of working with a group with a variety of opinions
(the U.S. Public Policy Committee of ACM), I have found that I frequently
need to engage in side email conversations with individuals in order to
determine both what their primary concerns are and what kind of compromise
might allow them to support a particular position.  These would be very
awkward discussions to have in public, and I believe that my effectiveness
would be reduced were I required to archive such discussions.

Regards,
Barbara

On 3/5/03 10:44 PM, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> We now have the following individuals nominated to fill ICANN Board Seat #14:
> 
> Barbara Simons
> Alejandro Pisanty
> Philip Sheppard
> Michael Palage
> Jonathan Cohen
> Susan Crawford
> 
> I would like to hear the views of these candidates, so I will pose this
> following preliminary question to prompt some initial discussion:
> 
> Our bylaws state:  "ICANN and its constituent bodies shall operate to the
> maximum extent feasible in an open and transparent manner and consistent with
> procedures designed to ensure fairness."  We are aware that the Board and
> certain constituencies do not publicly archive their discussion lists... in
> your view, does this comport with the bylaws requirement on transparency?

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:16:01 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: A Question for the Candidates

Barbara and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,

Barbara Simons wrote:

> If I am elected to the ICANN Board, I shall work at making the Board and its
> decision making process more open, responsible, and transparent.  In
> particular, I pledge to:
>
>     * Be accessible and responsive to the members of the public;

  Does this part of you pledge include responsible to the members
of the public and/or any and all stakeholders/users as well?

>
>     * Create an advisory group of experts in technological, policy,
> economics, and the law;

  Would such a advisory "Group of Experts" be open to any and all
that wish to participate?

>
>     * Work to build a decision-making process that is open and inclusive -
> and that involves two-way communications from the Board to the public and
> from the public to the Board;

  Very good here!  >;)

>
>     * Establish well defined procedures that will allow sufficient time for
> people to read and comment on issues, proposals, and initiatives;

  Will any and all interested parties or stakeholders/users in your
pledge here also have the contracted right to also have a vote in the
determination of any issues, proposals, and initiatives taken as well
before considered a standard/regulation by ICANN in your pledge?

>
>     * Guarantee that policy decisions are initiated and made by the Board,
> not by the staff.

  Does this include technical policy as well?  Will any and all stakeholders/usres
also have a vote before implementation or a decision of such policies are
adopted in your pledge?

>
>
> One of the aspects of having well defined procedures is that issues would
> not be voted on without first providing the public with reasonable notice
> and the opportunity to comment.

  Comment is wonderful Barbara, but is often ignored not considered
seriously.  Hence comment only is not good enough.  Therefore,
unless or until any and all stakeholders/usres vote on any and all
regulations, standards, initiatives, proposals, and/or policies before
they can be adopted or otherwise enacted.  Hence the board
should act as a enforcement arm of ICANN as much as it does
a facilitator.

>  Votes would be made in public and the
> results, together with how the individual Board members voted, would be
> posted in a prominent location on the ICANN website.
>
> I am uncomfortable with the idea of requiring that all email among Board
> members be made public.  I think that such a step would inhibit the give and
> take that is required in order for a body to reach a negotiated decision.

  Why would such inhibit give and take?  It shouldn't..  Openness is
always the best policy and practice.

>
> Based on my experiences of working with a group with a variety of opinions
> (the U.S. Public Policy Committee of ACM), I have found that I frequently
> need to engage in side email conversations with individuals in order to
> determine both what their primary concerns are and what kind of compromise
> might allow them to support a particular position.  These would be very
> awkward discussions to have in public, and I believe that my effectiveness
> would be reduced were I required to archive such discussions.
>
> Regards,
> Barbara
>
> On 3/5/03 10:44 PM, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> > We now have the following individuals nominated to fill ICANN Board Seat #14:
> >
> > Barbara Simons
> > Alejandro Pisanty
> > Philip Sheppard
> > Michael Palage
> > Jonathan Cohen
> > Susan Crawford
> >
> > I would like to hear the views of these candidates, so I will pose this
> > following preliminary question to prompt some initial discussion:
> >
> > Our bylaws state:  "ICANN and its constituent bodies shall operate to the
> > maximum extent feasible in an open and transparent manner and consistent with
> > procedures designed to ensure fairness."  We are aware that the Board and
> > certain constituencies do not publicly archive their discussion lists... in
> > your view, does this comport with the bylaws requirement on transparency?
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:17:36 +0200
From: Webcop Dude <[email-masked]>
Subject: [none]

Can you only send check commands over 'drop pool 3' connections or you can send 
bulk ORDER commands all the time as well?

Thanks
WD

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:13:28 -0500
From: "John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] GNSO/ICANN Board elections: Candidate's statement 

Since we are all just spectators out here in the cheap seats, is there going
to be a swimsuit or evening gown competition for us to watch.

I've heard that Mike Palage has a great set of legs.

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:26:22 -0500
From: "L. Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Karl's latest posting

On 10 Mar 2003 at 11:49, [email-masked] wrote:

> Also, consumers are represented in ITU-T through their governments, and I
> can assure you that issues related to consumers are regularly brought up.

But as with ICANN, there is no direct participation of users and they must
rely upon governments to address those issues.  Without direct user
participation, there is no more advantage for users to suport ITU than
there is to support ICANN.  Heck, in the US, the government has eroded
user's rights rather methodically based on influence of the corporate
sector.  Users are steadfastly ignored when it comes right down to 
crafting
legislation or rules that effect them.

Leah

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:27:17 -0500
From: "John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment  s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

> at cost. For downloading _official_ electronic texts from a UN
> organization there should be no charge. Unless there are reasons why it is
> good that as little people as possible actually read the texts. Could be.

All parties to this discussion need to read Carl Malamud's book on his
odyssey to try to publish ITU recommendations on the internet.

Do you remember when WIPO was suggesting that all International
Non-Proprietary Pharmaceutical Names (maintained in a list by WHO) be subject
to protection in domain name space?  I challenge you to find a list of them.

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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:21:39 +0100 (CET)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment  s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, at 17:27 [=GMT-0500], John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D. wrote:

> > at cost. For downloading _official_ electronic texts from a UN
> > organization there should be no charge. Unless there are reasons why it is
> > good that as little people as possible actually read the texts. Could be.
>
> All parties to this discussion need to read Carl Malamud's book on his
> odyssey to try to publish ITU recommendations on the internet.
>
> Do you remember when WIPO was suggesting that all International
> Non-Proprietary Pharmaceutical Names (maintained in a list by WHO) be subject
> to protection in domain name space?  I challenge you to find a list of them.

I like challenges, but I give in. By the way, one cannot find out whether
something is a trademark in all countries for free. So WIPO is not
inconsistent :-)

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:29:10 -0500
From: "Ross Wm. Rader" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment  s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

> Do you remember when WIPO was suggesting that all 
> International Non-Proprietary Pharmaceutical Names 

When did they stop? This one ranks right up there with the Sunrise +5
gobbledy-gook. Just be glad that out of the two choices that we got
albatrossed with the sunrise...INN's would be a massive mistake.

My question is why is it even a question as to what's good for us -
unless this is the "beat up the ITU hour" and I missed my invitation...

                       -rwr

"There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an
idiot."
- - Steven Wright

Get Blog... http://www.byte.org/

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:38:15 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: A Question for the Candidates

Hello,

I'd be curious to know the position of each candidate as it relates to
the WLS proposal by Verisign, which the Board accepted, despite lack of
a consensus (and indeed, a consensus against it) at the DNSO. It's
currently being appealed by Dotster.

For a backgrounder, see:

http://www.dotster.com/resources/wlsresponse.asp
http://forum.icann.org/wls/
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?antiwls

I'd like to also see your reasoning for your position, as that's
ultimately more important than whether you support it or not, as it
provides a glimpse as to the philosophies and values you will bring to
the Board. [ignoring the question entirely will also reveal a lot!]

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/
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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:13:06 +1300
From: Joop Teernstra <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: A Question for the Candidates

At 07:44 a.m. 11/03/2003, Barbara Simons wrote:
>If I am elected to the ICANN Board, I shall work at making the Board and its
>decision making process more open, responsible, and transparent.  In
>particular, I pledge to:
>
>     * Be accessible and responsive to the members of the public;
>     * Create an advisory group of experts in technological, policy,
>economics, and the law;
>     * Work to build a decision-making process that is open and inclusive -
>and that involves two-way communications from the Board to the public and
>from the public to the Board;
>     * Establish well defined procedures that will allow sufficient time for
>people to read and comment on issues, proposals, and initiatives;
>     * Guarantee that policy decisions are initiated and made by the Board,
>not by the staff.

Thank you, Barbara.
Not only for responding, but also for these (huge) undertakings.

- --Joop--
www.icannatlarge.com

Sign up and spread the word.

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:27:09 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The telephone network and the internet (RE: [ga] ALAC comment  s on proposed Bylaws modifications)

John and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,

John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D. wrote:

> > at cost. For downloading _official_ electronic texts from a UN
> > organization there should be no charge. Unless there are reasons why it is
> > good that as little people as possible actually read the texts. Could be.
>
> All parties to this discussion need to read Carl Malamud's book on his
> odyssey to try to publish ITU recommendations on the internet.

  Yes, I read it!  And "Odyssey" is exactly what it was too!

>
>
> Do you remember when WIPO was suggesting that all International
> Non-Proprietary Pharmaceutical Names (maintained in a list by WHO) be subject
> to protection in domain name space?  I challenge you to find a list of them.
>
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> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:33:19 -0800
From: Barbara Simons <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: A Question for the Candidates

Dear Jeff et al,
Please see my responses below.
Barbara

On 3/10/03 4:16 PM, "Jeff Williams" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Barbara and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,
> 
> 
> Barbara Simons wrote:
> 
>> If I am elected to the ICANN Board, I shall work at making the Board and its
>> decision making process more open, responsible, and transparent.  In
>> particular, I pledge to:
>> 
>>     * Be accessible and responsive to the members of the public;
> 
> Does this part of you pledge include responsible to the members
> of the public and/or any and all stakeholders/users as well?

As a Board member, I would attempt to be responsive to all stakeholders and
users, most certainly including members of the public.  Obviously, a single
individual cannot communicate with thousands of stakeholders.  But I would
do my best to be clear about my positions and to listen and be responsive to
the concerns of others.

>>     * Create an advisory group of experts in technological, policy,
>> economics, and the law;
> 
> Would such a advisory "Group of Experts" be open to any and all
> that wish to participate?

I would be looking for volunteers, but I would select the people who would
be advising me, based on their expertise, their willingness to work, their
ability to get along with others, and my comfort at interacting with them.

>>     * Work to build a decision-making process that is open and inclusive -
>> and that involves two-way communications from the Board to the public and
>> from the public to the Board;
> 
> Very good here!  >;)
> 
>> 
>>     * Establish well defined procedures that will allow sufficient time for
>> people to read and comment on issues, proposals, and initiatives;
> 
> Will any and all interested parties or stakeholders/users in your
> pledge here also have the contracted right to also have a vote in the
> determination of any issues, proposals, and initiatives taken as well
> before considered a standard/regulation by ICANN in your pledge?

I don't see how I could hold a vote on all issues and proposals.  I have a
track record of having spent years working in an organization with strong
democratic principles - ACM.  I care deeply about the future of the
Internet, and I would do my best to preserve the Internet as an open channel
of communication.
 
>>     * Guarantee that policy decisions are initiated and made by the Board,
>> not by the staff.
> 
> Does this include technical policy as well?  Will any and all
> stakeholders/usres
> also have a vote before implementation or a decision of such policies are
> adopted in your pledge?

As I said above, I don't see how I can hold a vote of stakeholders.  As far
as technical policy issues are concerned, it would depend on how much policy
was involved with the technology.  We know that some technologies are
relatively neutral, and others have significant policy implications.  It's
the later ones about which I have the greatest concern.
 
>> One of the aspects of having well defined procedures is that issues would
>> not be voted on without first providing the public with reasonable notice
>> and the opportunity to comment.
> 
> Comment is wonderful Barbara, but is often ignored not considered
> seriously.  Hence comment only is not good enough.  Therefore,
> unless or until any and all stakeholders/usres vote on any and all
> regulations, standards, initiatives, proposals, and/or policies before
> they can be adopted or otherwise enacted.  Hence the board
> should act as a enforcement arm of ICANN as much as it does
> a facilitator.

If I am elected, I'll be only one member of the Board.  I'll do my best to
bring about the creation of well defined and observed policies and
procedures within ICANN.  Without such policies and procedures, it becomes
impossible for small stakeholders and individuals to participate in the
ICANN process, because they don't have the resources to read and respond to
documents on very short notice.

>>  Votes would be made in public and the
>> results, together with how the individual Board members voted, would be
>> posted in a prominent location on the ICANN website.
>> 
>> I am uncomfortable with the idea of requiring that all email among Board
>> members be made public.  I think that such a step would inhibit the give and
>> take that is required in order for a body to reach a negotiated decision.
> 
> Why would such inhibit give and take?  It shouldn't..  Openness is
> always the best policy and practice.

I agree about openness in public meetings.  Additionally, I don't approve of
policy decisions being made behind closed doors, and would adamantly oppose
such an activity.  However, I also would need the ability to conduct off the
record discussions with fellow Board members.  I understand your reluctance
to go along with such a proposal, and my view is that ICANN is so heavily
political that it will be impossible to achieve any of the goals that I've
stated above if I am unable to engage in frank discussions with other Board
members.
 
>> Based on my experiences of working with a group with a variety of opinions
>> (the U.S. Public Policy Committee of ACM), I have found that I frequently
>> need to engage in side email conversations with individuals in order to
>> determine both what their primary concerns are and what kind of compromise
>> might allow them to support a particular position.  These would be very
>> awkward discussions to have in public, and I believe that my effectiveness
>> would be reduced were I required to archive such discussions.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Barbara

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1627
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