Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1595
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Thursday, February 13 2003         Volume 01 : Number 1595

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:59:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] RE: Joe Baptista Fantasie

On 12 Feb 2003, Joe Kelsey wrote:

> The Register is not known for either fact checking or spell checking.
> Having your diatribe appear in The Register does not impress anyone,
> least of all me.  It only servers to provide proof of your total lack of
> any subject-area knowledge.

what about playboy - does that impress you - or at least pop your eyes
out.  maybe the wall street journal.

you know something Joe - you are trully a twit.  The register is the best
know rag in the techi field.  thats why i'm writing there.  i choose them
for my message.  because i know what people read - and so far i have been
impressed by them.

and your claims that i lack knowledge in the subject-area.  baby - i am
the leading expert in the field who can draw the dots for you.  Obviously
the experts you feel more comfortable with are the ones using jeff
williams as their source.

go ahead joey - show us your stuff.  show us how pretty you are.  if you
question my knowledge show me - quote me where i have mislead.

you can't.  can you.  ignorant twit go home.

> You have no personal credibility on this list.  Your prior actions speak
> much louder than anything else.  Anyone who is tempted to place any
> import behind your words would do well to research what the entity known
> here as "Joe Baptista" has done in the past.

i don't need credibility.  i have protocols.  never asked you people to
trust me.  those who need trust are people like ester - et al.  i'm a one
man show baby - with sponsors - god bless.  have you leanred nothing of
me.  i'm not here to entertain you - your here to entertain me.  and god
bless that.

regards
joe baptista

Joe Baptista - only at www.baptista.god

      http://www.nic.god /
   http://www.nic.satan /
                       / or if your computer is backwards
                      / http://www.dot-god.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:35:54 -0500
From: "L. Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

On 12 Feb 2003 at 17:50, Joe Kelsey wrote:

> Are there pictures of you anywhere on the Web, Joe?

Actually, there have been pictures of Joe on the web.  I don't know if 
they are still up anwhere, but what has that to do with anything he might 
have to say.  FYI, I have, indeed, seen photos of him.  Are there photos 
of you on the web?  Are you obligated to point them out?  I don't think 
so.

Leah

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:12:45 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: Joe Baptista Fantasie

Both Joes,

This is shear silliness.  Kelsey are you an idiot or just playing devil's
advocate?
Dr. Babtista trumps you seven times over.
You have no knowledge reaching the actions, knowledge and intelligence of the
good Doctor.
Kelsy wake up or go back to sleep.
e
Joe Baptista wrote:

> On 12 Feb 2003, Joe Kelsey wrote:
>
> > The Register is not known for either fact checking or spell checking.
> > Having your diatribe appear in The Register does not impress anyone,
> > least of all me.  It only servers to provide proof of your total lack of
> > any subject-area knowledge.
>
> what about playboy - does that impress you - or at least pop your eyes
> out.  maybe the wall street journal.
>
> you know something Joe - you are trully a twit.  The register is the best
> know rag in the techi field.  thats why i'm writing there.  i choose them
> for my message.  because i know what people read - and so far i have been
> impressed by them.
>
> and your claims that i lack knowledge in the subject-area.  baby - i am
> the leading expert in the field who can draw the dots for you.  Obviously
> the experts you feel more comfortable with are the ones using jeff
> williams as their source.
>
> go ahead joey - show us your stuff.  show us how pretty you are.  if you
> question my knowledge show me - quote me where i have mislead.
>
> you can't.  can you.  ignorant twit go home.
>
> > You have no personal credibility on this list.  Your prior actions speak
> > much louder than anything else.  Anyone who is tempted to place any
> > import behind your words would do well to research what the entity known
> > here as "Joe Baptista" has done in the past.
>
> i don't need credibility.  i have protocols.  never asked you people to
> trust me.  those who need trust are people like ester - et al.  i'm a one
> man show baby - with sponsors - god bless.  have you leanred nothing of
> me.  i'm not here to entertain you - your here to entertain me.  and god
> bless that.
>
> regards
> joe baptista
>
> Joe Baptista - only at www.baptista.god
>
>       http://www.nic.god /
>    http://www.nic.satan /
>                        / or if your computer is backwards
>                       / http://www.dot-god.com
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:23:20 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

What garbage is this?

Does how a man or woman look effect argument in a logical scenario?
Now I admit my photos on it.com.vn are not pretty but it does not make me a
bad person.
e

"L. Gallegos" wrote:

> On 12 Feb 2003 at 17:50, Joe Kelsey wrote:
>
> > Are there pictures of you anywhere on the Web, Joe?
>
> Actually, there have been pictures of Joe on the web.  I don't know if
> they are still up anwhere, but what has that to do with anything he might
> have to say.  FYI, I have, indeed, seen photos of him.  Are there photos
> of you on the web?  Are you obligated to point them out?  I don't think
> so.
>
> Leah
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:32:01 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

Dear remaining members,

First of all if we are still functioning it is time for new elections.
Period, end of story.
Second, Jeff Williams is a fine contributor here and detractors have alterior
motives.
Playing Ostrich is stupid and looks stupid to those who pay attention.
e

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:11:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Karl Auerbach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Registrars as censors?

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:

> "Computer Service Langenbach, which operates the Joker.com registrar in
> Dusseldorf, Germany, yanked the Ogrish.com domain name from its database
> this week in response to a request from a German prosecutor, said the
> hosting service and the owner of the site Tuesday."

This came up previously in the Napster wars - some copyright folks 
realized that it would be a lot easier to shut down Napster if they could 
just get the domain name yanked.

I disagree with the implication that registration of a name is equivalent
to use of that name, and that if a use is found to be wrong that the
remedy is to remove the registration.  The remedy ought to be to require
the cesation of the offending use.

The second thing that irks me is the continuing implication that the
world-wide-web is the Internet and vice versa.  Any evaluation of how a
domain name is used really ought to examine all uses not merely those
available via an http TCP connection to port 80 (and I'm not even going to
go into virtual servers occupying the same IP address. ;-)

		--karl--

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:17:56 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois

Eric, Jeff N., Michael, and all former DNSO GA members,

  Thank you Eric for pointing out that privacy is again a primary
right in our country as it is in many others.  It seem pretty obvious
that some ICANN Registries/Registrars such as Nuelevel/Afilias,
are unwilling to recognize that basic fact and would seek to
titillate or flirt with legal incumbency for the sake of being able
to thwart registrants privacy for financial gain through using their
names, addresses, and E-Mail addresses in BULK unwanted
advertisement and the like, spam or near-spam...

  As such, and in part as a result of this attitude or lack or
cooperation by the registries/registrars of ICANN, legislation
for spam along with ever increasing demand for severe punishment
is being sought of written into law in many countries, including
the US.

  So I will begin tracking Johnson& Johnson stock very soon as
they are one of the producers of Soap-on-a-Rope, which I
have an idea may see a jump in sales in the mid term.  >;)

[email-masked] wrote:

> Mr. Neuman,
>
> 1) Clearly Mr. Williams represents many in our community and if you took the
> time to notice you would even read dissenting voices on this list.  I have met
> several in foreign lands that acknowledge his pre-eminence in this field.
> Personal attacks are silly and unwarranted. The lack of a whois for his group
> only shows a proprietary correctness for their right of privacy.
> 2} What you have to say here is bullshit.  Common sense, Common Law, Civil Law
> will tell you that a contract may not violate law.  Opt-out and getting off a
> spaming list is by law allowed.
> DoC will back you up or find themselves fired.
> There are two dotBiZ's and you should find a way to get along to fight any of
> this nonsense you encounter.
> Good luck,
> Eric Hugh Dierker
> "Neuman, Jeff" wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Thanks for your comments.  But let me turn the table on you at this point.
> > Can you answer the following questions?
> >
> > 1)  Who exactly are your members?  If you can please spell those specific
> > members out on this list, I would be most grateful.  In the 8 years I have
> > been involved in this industry (which I admit is not as long as others, but
> > still not insignificant), I have NEVER heard of anyone who admitted to be
> > affiliated with you or your organization.
> >
> > 2)  Please tell me how I personally can set an opt-out policy for .BIZ
> > NeuLevel is contractually governed by the ICANN Registry Agreement with
> > ICANN?  If I were to somehow dictate this new policy, please tell me how I
> > would avoid a breach of contract action from ICANN? Also, tell me how I
> > would not be in breach of my contracts with the Registrars?
> >
> > 3)  What financial burden are you referring to?
> >
> > Thanks for your time and I await your response.
> >
> > P.S. Feel free to call me if you have any questions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Williams [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:54 PM
> > To: [email-masked]
> > Cc: Michael D. Palage; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> > Steinle and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,
> >
> >   I know our members that are Nuelevel customers have frequently
> > complained about this problem with Nuelevel and other customer
> > service related communications as well.
> >
> >   Opt-Out should be allowed and acted upon by any honest
> > Registry/registrar.  Why Mr. Nueman has not directed his
> > people from a policy standpoint in this direction remains
> > a mystery and a travesty...
> >
> >   Perhaps it is time for another legal challenge to Nuelevel
> > in this area, in order to get their attention, as well as perhaps
> > relieve Mr. Nueman of some of his financial burden.
> >
> > [email-masked] wrote:
> >
> > >    Thanks for your reply.
> > >
> > > However I know that there is a "ordinary whois access" and a bulk
> > > whois access.
> > > All people involved always wrote about bulk whois.
> > >
> > > Neulevel Support:
> > > "ICANN requires that we provide full WHOIS information for each domain
> > > name we register.
> > > You may, however, have your domain name removed from the list of bulk
> > > registration records that we maintain.
> > > Please contact your Registrar directly if you would like your domain
> > > name to be removed from that list."
> > >
> > > I forwarded this message to my Registrar (to have my domains removed
> > > from the list of bulk registration record).
> > >
> > > My registrar contacted Neulevel via Phone and wrote following
> > > sentences: "We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us,
> > > that this change cannot be done. The previous mail was an failure of
> > > the NEWLEVEL Supporter."
> > >
> > > According to NeuLevel (via my Registrar) there is no way to opt-out!
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Michael D. Palage
> > >   To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
> > >   Cc: [email-masked]
> > >   Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:59 PM
> > >   Subject: RE: [ga] BULK whois
> > >
> > >
> > >   You are mixing apples with oranges.
> > >
> > >   Bulk Access DOES NOT EQUAL public access to individual Whois queries
> > > via port 43 or a web based interface.
> > >
> > >   Both the registrar and registry (in the case of thick registry
> > > operators) are required by ICANN contract to provide whois information
> > > in response to an individual whois query either via port 43 or a web
> > > based tool. There is no opt provision for access to this data.
> > >
> > >   However, the registrar in his ICANN accreditation agreement is
> > > required to provide "bulk access" to their Whois data (minus those
> > > registrants that opt out) to any party that request it. In return the
> > > registrar is able to charge up to $10,000 annually.
> > >
> > >   The only way I know of to remove your information from both public
> > > access Whois and Bulk Whois is through Go Daddy's Domain Proxy
> > > service.
> > >
> > >   I hope this helps navigates these complex issues,
> > >
> > >   Best regards,
> > >
> > >   Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    -----Original Message-----
> > >   From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > >   Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:58 AM
> > >   To: Michael D. Palage; [email-masked]
> > >   Cc: [email-masked]
> > >   Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois
> > >
> > >
> > >     This is what I get from my Registrar and from NeuLevel:
> > >
> > >
> > >     Dear Mr. Steinle,
> > >
> > >     Unfortunatelly we were not able to assert your interests regarding
> > > in this matter.
> > >     We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us, that this change
> > > cannot be done.
> > >
> > >     The previous mail was an failure of the NEWLEVEL Supporter.
> > >
> > >     We apologize for the trouble this may caused.
> > >
> > >     We really did our best.
> > >
> > >     Thank you for understanding in this matter.
> > >
> > >     Should you have any further questions or require any assistance at
> > > all,
> > >     please do not hesitate to contact us.
> > >
> > >     With kindest regards,
> > >
> > >     Your Team @ ...
> > >
> > >
> > >     > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >     > > > > > > From: "Support" <[email-masked]>
> > >     > > > > > > To: <[email-masked]>
> > >     > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:47 PM
> > >     > > > > > > Subject: RE: {Registry#213-999} remove bulk access
> > >     > > > > > >
> > >     > > > > > >
> > >     > > > > > > Dear Simon-
> > >     > > > > > >
> > >     > > > > > > ICANN requires that we provide full WHOIS information
> > > for each
> > >     > domain
> > >     > > > > name
> > >     > > > > > > we register. You may, however, have your domain name
> > > removed
> > >     from
> > >     > the
> > >     > > > > list
> > >     > > > > > > of bulk registration records that we maintain. Please
> > > contact
> > >     your
> > >     > > > > > Registrar
> > >     > > > > > > directly if you would like your domain name to be
> > > removed from
> > >     > that
> > >     > > > > list.
> > >     > > > > > >
> > >     > > > > > > Kind Regards
> > >     > > > > > > Neulevel Support
> > >     > > > > > > ___________________________________________
> > >     > > > > > > NeuLevel - The home of .biz
> > >     > > > > > > Email:    [email-masked]
> > >     > > > > > > Web Site: http://www.neulevel.biz
> > >
> > >       ----- Original Message -----
> > >       From: Michael D. Palage
> > >       To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
> > >       Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:12 PM
> > >       Subject: RE: [ga] BULK whois
> > >
> > >
> > >       Speaking only on the topic of .info and .biz, it is my
> > > understanding of the contracts that the registries do not have a bulk
> > > access per se because it is the registrars that own the data.
> > > Therefore, if one was to purchase Network Solution's bulk whois data
> > > they would  be entitled to all ICANN sanctioned domain names that it
> > > sponsors (.com, .org, .net .info, .biz ,etc), provided that the
> > > registrant did not opt out as provided for in the ICANN Registrar
> > > Accreditation Agreement.
> > >
> > >       Mike
> > >         -----Original Message-----
> > >         From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
> > > [email-masked]
> > >         Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:04 PM
> > >         To: [email-masked]
> > >         Subject: [ga] BULK whois
> > >
> > >
> > >         Is there a BULK whois file for .info, .biz and .us like there
> > > is one for cno domains?
> > >         And how could one opt-out of this?
> > >
> > >         Thanks!
> > >         Simon
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > ================================================================
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail [email-masked]
> > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Kindest regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:12:20 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 08:08:54PM -0500,
 Joe Baptista <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 96 lines which said:

> what about all the newspaper articles where he has been quoted as a
> leading expert.  lots of those about.

All written by Joe Baptista or Jim Fleming. What a record :-)

> i'm afraid i just can't buy the jeff williams faq - when the press telss
> me otherwise.

I'm deeply sorry for the Register, a very fine journal otherwise. They
made a big mistake (publishing *one* article by Joe Baptista), I'll
write them to inform them about their mistake but I would like people
to be reminded that it is a worthy source of information otherwise.

http://www.theregister.co.uk

Read <URL:http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/29308.html> for
instance: "Gates holds forth on the 'pervasive Linux' threat".
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:16:44 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 02:44:01PM -0800,
 [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 252 lines which said:

> 1) Clearly Mr. Williams represents many in our community 

Yes, even jerks have unions :-)

> time to notice you would even read dissenting voices on this list. 

That's the biggest lie in this discussion (and, unfortunately, in many
others of the former DNSO GA mailing list): to merge "dissenting
voices" with "jerks". There are many dissenting (I mean dissenting
with ICANN) voices here. Not all of them are jerks. Not everybody who
criticizes ICANN (or bulk whois or whois or IDN or Verisign) supports
Joe Baptista.

> I have met several in foreign lands that acknowledge his
> pre-eminence in this field.

Since I live in a foreign land (which seems to be "anywhere outside
of the United States of America"), I can testify noone in France seems
to know Jeff Williams either :-)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:23:24 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 02:44:01PM -0800,
 [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 252 lines which said:

> 2} What you have to say here is bullshit.  Common sense, Common Law, Civil Law
> will tell you that a contract may not violate law.  Opt-out and getting off a
> spaming list is by law allowed.

In a sea of garbage (such as the mythical "two .biz" or the not-less
mythical Jeff Williams), this is a good point. Now, IANAL but:

* I'm not aware of any such law in the USA. If some people who know
this country better than I do can give actual references?

* Even in France, where the privacy law is generally regarded as quite
comprehensive, there is no general opt-out right. You have an
information right ("Your name and address will be recorded and sent to
the whole Universe on port 43. Click on Cancel if you do not want to
register a domain"), an access right ("What is exactly about me in
that file?"), which is provided by whois, BTW, a fixing right ("I was
never convicted, erase that erroneous information and do it now!"),
and a few others but not a general right to be removed from any list
you want. I would use it a lot, otherwise!

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:53:31 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] Re: {Registry#213-999} remove bulk access

Thanks for further clarification.
But it was my Registrar who told me AFTER CONTACTING NEULEVEL VIA PHONE that
opting-out from bulk whois.

E-mail from my registrar:

"Dear Mr. Steinle,

Unfortunatelly we were not able to assert your interests regarding in this
matter.
We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us, that this change cannot be
done.

The previous mail was an failure of the NEWLEVEL Supporter"

Btw. was it really necessary to make my domain name public?

Simon

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Support" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: {Registry#213-999} remove bulk access

Dear Simon,

We refer to your response to your customer below, in which you claim that
the .BIZ registry had declined your request, on behalf of your customer, to
have their information removed from bulk WHOIS. Your response was inaccurate
because NeuStar Registry Services, which runs the .BIZ  and .US registries,
does not keep bulk WHOIS.

Please note the following facts for future purposes:

1. the .BIZ and .US registries only operate and maintain the public whois;
we do not have a bulk WHOIS.
2. registrars maintain their own individual bulk WHOIS records for sell to
interested parties. By opting out of that bulk WHOIS, a registrant removes
its name from the bulk WHOIS that registrars sell to purchasers.
3. as of today (February 13, 2003) a registrant cannot opt out of the public
whois for either .US or .BIZ.  These policies are set by the (US) Department
of Commerce and ICANN, respectively.
4. Registrars are responsible for providing bulk whois access, as outlined
in their contracts. They also may have provisions for opting out.
5. a registrant who does not want their street address to appear in the
public WHOIS can replace their street address with a working P.O. Box
mailing address; the email address is not optional.

We hope these points help put things in perspective.

Best Regards,

NeuLevel/NeuStar Registrar Support

 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: [email-masked][[email-masked]]
 >Date: Tuesday, February 04, 2003  03:03 PM
 >To: [email-masked][[email-masked]]
 >Subject: Fw: remove bulk access
 >
 >
 >Please remove all domains registered in my name from bulk WHOIS
 >database/file.
 >
 >also see message below.
 >
 >Simon Steinle
 >
 >----- Original Message -----
 >From: Supporter <mailto:[email-masked]>
 >To: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
 >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:43 PM
 >Subject: Re: remove bulk access
 >
 >Dear Sir,
 >
 >Regarding .biz domains, the provider of whois-services is NeuLevel Inc.
 >Please be so kind as to contact them directly.
 >
 >Best regards,
 >
 >Your Team @ domaindiscount24.com
 >
 >Key-Systems GmbH
 >Saarpfalz-Park, Building 7
 >66450 Bexbach
 >Tel.: +49 (0) 6826 - 52 41 70
 >Fax.: +49 (0) 6826 - 52 41 71
 >Email: [email-masked]
 ><mailto:[email-masked]>
 >www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  /
 >www.domaindiscount24.com
 ><http://www.domaindiscount24.com>   / www.cd <http://www.cd>
 >
 >----- Original Message -----
 >From: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
 >To: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
 >Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:00 AM
 >Subject: remove bulk access
 >
 >
 >
 >Please remove all domains registered in my name from bulk WHOIS
 >database/file.
 >I will verify if this opt-out request was executed successfully by you
 >via
 >Bulk Whois databases, e.g.'Domain Registrant Search on SAEGIS'.
 >
 >The domains in question are listed below.
 >
 >
 >PUSSY.BIZ
 >
 >Simon Steinle
 >

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:32:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[ga]_BULK_whois?=

Well then I suggest you get a hold of a pre-eminent member in your country 
and ask him about a wonderful teleconference, with Jeff Williams regarding 
the development of dotVN. That would be Jefsey. You pale in comparison in 
France.  Funny, but it seems to my recollection Roeland Meyers and Sotiris 
attended the same conference and gave advice on development along with Mr. 
Williams.
It is from the advice of these Canadian, US, French members of the community 
that dotVN did not become another .LA or .WS. It progresses to help the 
local internet community and assure "stability, accessibility and security".
Jeff Williams has been a major advisor in many of the rolls in our 
developing countries.

(I do not suggest that these men are affiliated with my group and only 
mention that they tried to help a developing country from their experience)

I suggest you curb your tongue or become the fool Ms. SB
e

> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 02:44:01PM -0800,
>  [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote 
>  a message of 252 lines which said:
> 
>> 1) Clearly Mr. Williams represents many in our community 
> 
> Yes, even jerks have unions :-)
> 
>> time to notice you would even read dissenting voices on this list. 
> 
> That's the biggest lie in this discussion (and, unfortunately, in many
> others of the former DNSO GA mailing list): to merge "dissenting
> voices" with "jerks". There are many dissenting (I mean dissenting with
> ICANN) voices here. Not all of them are jerks. Not everybody who
> criticizes ICANN (or bulk whois or whois or IDN or Verisign) supports
> Joe Baptista.
> 
>> I have met several in foreign lands that acknowledge his
>> pre-eminence in this field.
> 
> Since I live in a foreign land (which seems to be "anywhere outside of
> the United States of America"), I can testify noone in France seems to
> know Jeff Williams either :-)
> 
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:42:20 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois

On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 05:32:26AM -0800,
 Eric Dierker <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 48 lines which said:

> Well then I suggest you get a hold of a pre-eminent member in your country 
...
> That would be Jefsey. 
...
> > Yes, even jerks have unions :-)

And we even have members of this union in France!

> I suggest you curb your tongue or become the fool Ms. SB

Why the Ms? Because of my diploma?

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:01:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[ga]_BULK_whois?=

I am very sorry to have used the Ms.
Perhaps my year at the American college in Paris under Dr. Kissinger and Dr. 
Sallenger jaded my perspective. (1975)and you may check those records along 
with 1992 in Puebla, Mexico. 
My Doctorate has given me no right to attack you.

However it would appear that something has given you the right to attack 
others. And my ministry certificate prohibits me fighting you further.
I apologize for any wrongs.
e

> On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 05:32:26AM -0800,
>  Eric Dierker <[email-masked]> wrote 
>  a message of 48 lines which said:
> 
>> Well then I suggest you get a hold of a pre-eminent member in your
>> country 
> ...
>> That would be Jefsey. 
> ...
>> > Yes, even jerks have unions :-)
> 
> And we even have members of this union in France!
> 
>> I suggest you curb your tongue or become the fool Ms. SB
> 
> Why the Ms? Because of my diploma?

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:26:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 08:08:54PM -0500,
>  Joe Baptista <[email-masked]> wrote
>  a message of 96 lines which said:
>
> > what about all the newspaper articles where he has been quoted as a
> > leading expert.  lots of those about.
>
> All written by Joe Baptista or Jim Fleming. What a record :-)

Not one article written by me.

But this sort of claim is what I would not expect from the french nic.  A
bold lie like this should not be the currency of your trade.

> > i'm afraid i just can't buy the jeff williams faq - when the press telss
> > me otherwise.
>
> I'm deeply sorry for the Register, a very fine journal otherwise. They
> made a big mistake (publishing *one* article by Joe Baptista), I'll
> write them to inform them about their mistake but I would like people
> to be reminded that it is a worthy source of information otherwise.
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk
>
> Read <URL:http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/29308.html> for
> instance: "Gates holds forth on the 'pervasive Linux' threat".

Yes it is an excellent paper and if you can find anything wring with mine
i'm sure they'll pay you attention.

cheers
joe

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1595
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