Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1594
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Thursday, February 13 2003         Volume 01 : Number 1594

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:42:02 +0100
From: "DNSO SECRETARIAT" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] GNSO Council Deletes task Force Initial report open for Public comment

[To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]]
[To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]]

The Deletes Task Force of the Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO)
has posted its Initial Report at:
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20030211.DeletesTF-initial-report.html

Public comments  should  be submitted by e-mail to:
[email-masked] NO LATER THAN 3 MARCH 2003

Archives at:
http://dnso.dnso.org/dnso/dnsocomments/comments-deletes/Arc02/

GNSO Secretariat

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:44:01 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois

Mr. Neuman,

1) Clearly Mr. Williams represents many in our community and if you took the
time to notice you would even read dissenting voices on this list.  I have met
several in foreign lands that acknowledge his pre-eminence in this field.
Personal attacks are silly and unwarranted. The lack of a whois for his group
only shows a proprietary correctness for their right of privacy.
2} What you have to say here is bullshit.  Common sense, Common Law, Civil Law
will tell you that a contract may not violate law.  Opt-out and getting off a
spaming list is by law allowed.
DoC will back you up or find themselves fired.
There are two dotBiZ's and you should find a way to get along to fight any of
this nonsense you encounter.
Good luck,
Eric Hugh Dierker
"Neuman, Jeff" wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your comments.  But let me turn the table on you at this point.
> Can you answer the following questions?
>
> 1)  Who exactly are your members?  If you can please spell those specific
> members out on this list, I would be most grateful.  In the 8 years I have
> been involved in this industry (which I admit is not as long as others, but
> still not insignificant), I have NEVER heard of anyone who admitted to be
> affiliated with you or your organization.
>
> 2)  Please tell me how I personally can set an opt-out policy for .BIZ
> NeuLevel is contractually governed by the ICANN Registry Agreement with
> ICANN?  If I were to somehow dictate this new policy, please tell me how I
> would avoid a breach of contract action from ICANN? Also, tell me how I
> would not be in breach of my contracts with the Registrars?
>
> 3)  What financial burden are you referring to?
>
> Thanks for your time and I await your response.
>
> P.S. Feel free to call me if you have any questions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:54 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: Michael D. Palage; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois
>
> Steinle and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,
>
>   I know our members that are Nuelevel customers have frequently
> complained about this problem with Nuelevel and other customer
> service related communications as well.
>
>   Opt-Out should be allowed and acted upon by any honest
> Registry/registrar.  Why Mr. Nueman has not directed his
> people from a policy standpoint in this direction remains
> a mystery and a travesty...
>
>   Perhaps it is time for another legal challenge to Nuelevel
> in this area, in order to get their attention, as well as perhaps
> relieve Mr. Nueman of some of his financial burden.
>
> [email-masked] wrote:
>
> >    Thanks for your reply.
> >
> > However I know that there is a "ordinary whois access" and a bulk
> > whois access.
> > All people involved always wrote about bulk whois.
> >
> > Neulevel Support:
> > "ICANN requires that we provide full WHOIS information for each domain
> > name we register.
> > You may, however, have your domain name removed from the list of bulk
> > registration records that we maintain.
> > Please contact your Registrar directly if you would like your domain
> > name to be removed from that list."
> >
> > I forwarded this message to my Registrar (to have my domains removed
> > from the list of bulk registration record).
> >
> > My registrar contacted Neulevel via Phone and wrote following
> > sentences: "We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us,
> > that this change cannot be done. The previous mail was an failure of
> > the NEWLEVEL Supporter."
> >
> > According to NeuLevel (via my Registrar) there is no way to opt-out!
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Michael D. Palage
> >   To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
> >   Cc: [email-masked]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:59 PM
> >   Subject: RE: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >   You are mixing apples with oranges.
> >
> >   Bulk Access DOES NOT EQUAL public access to individual Whois queries
> > via port 43 or a web based interface.
> >
> >   Both the registrar and registry (in the case of thick registry
> > operators) are required by ICANN contract to provide whois information
> > in response to an individual whois query either via port 43 or a web
> > based tool. There is no opt provision for access to this data.
> >
> >   However, the registrar in his ICANN accreditation agreement is
> > required to provide "bulk access" to their Whois data (minus those
> > registrants that opt out) to any party that request it. In return the
> > registrar is able to charge up to $10,000 annually.
> >
> >   The only way I know of to remove your information from both public
> > access Whois and Bulk Whois is through Go Daddy's Domain Proxy
> > service.
> >
> >   I hope this helps navigates these complex issues,
> >
> >   Best regards,
> >
> >   Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    -----Original Message-----
> >   From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:58 AM
> >   To: Michael D. Palage; [email-masked]
> >   Cc: [email-masked]
> >   Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >     This is what I get from my Registrar and from NeuLevel:
> >
> >
> >     Dear Mr. Steinle,
> >
> >     Unfortunatelly we were not able to assert your interests regarding
> > in this matter.
> >     We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us, that this change
> > cannot be done.
> >
> >     The previous mail was an failure of the NEWLEVEL Supporter.
> >
> >     We apologize for the trouble this may caused.
> >
> >     We really did our best.
> >
> >     Thank you for understanding in this matter.
> >
> >     Should you have any further questions or require any assistance at
> > all,
> >     please do not hesitate to contact us.
> >
> >     With kindest regards,
> >
> >     Your Team @ ...
> >
> >
> >     > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >     > > > > > > From: "Support" <[email-masked]>
> >     > > > > > > To: <[email-masked]>
> >     > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:47 PM
> >     > > > > > > Subject: RE: {Registry#213-999} remove bulk access
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > > Dear Simon-
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > > ICANN requires that we provide full WHOIS information
> > for each
> >     > domain
> >     > > > > name
> >     > > > > > > we register. You may, however, have your domain name
> > removed
> >     from
> >     > the
> >     > > > > list
> >     > > > > > > of bulk registration records that we maintain. Please
> > contact
> >     your
> >     > > > > > Registrar
> >     > > > > > > directly if you would like your domain name to be
> > removed from
> >     > that
> >     > > > > list.
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > > Kind Regards
> >     > > > > > > Neulevel Support
> >     > > > > > > ___________________________________________
> >     > > > > > > NeuLevel - The home of .biz
> >     > > > > > > Email:    [email-masked]
> >     > > > > > > Web Site: http://www.neulevel.biz
> >
> >       ----- Original Message -----
> >       From: Michael D. Palage
> >       To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
> >       Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:12 PM
> >       Subject: RE: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >       Speaking only on the topic of .info and .biz, it is my
> > understanding of the contracts that the registries do not have a bulk
> > access per se because it is the registrars that own the data.
> > Therefore, if one was to purchase Network Solution's bulk whois data
> > they would  be entitled to all ICANN sanctioned domain names that it
> > sponsors (.com, .org, .net .info, .biz ,etc), provided that the
> > registrant did not opt out as provided for in the ICANN Registrar
> > Accreditation Agreement.
> >
> >       Mike
> >         -----Original Message-----
> >         From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
> > [email-masked]
> >         Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:04 PM
> >         To: [email-masked]
> >         Subject: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >         Is there a BULK whois file for .info, .biz and .us like there
> > is one for cno domains?
> >         And how could one opt-out of this?
> >
> >         Thanks!
> >         Simon
> >
> >
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
> ================================================================
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:55:19 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois

Jeff and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,

Neuman, Jeff wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your comments.  But let me turn the table on you at this point.
> Can you answer the following questions?

  Ah yes now we are going to enter the "Spin Zone" I see.  Very well...  >;)

>
>
> 1)  Who exactly are your members?

  Our members are listed on the Federal regristrar and with the FEC,
as you have been informed a number of times before.  You'll I hope
understand that I do not know all of them by name, and could not
list all of them here in this reply as it would violate Thomas's rather
sensitive adversion for posts exceeding 10k is size, a list rule.
However, Mr. Nueman, Jeff, if I may? You of course are or should
be very familier with submitting a FOIA request for the complete
list of our members, should you feel so inclined.

>  If you can please spell those specific
> members out on this list, I would be most grateful.

  I don't know each of them by name, and would not do so as it would
violate our privacy agreement with each of our members, unless I had
their spicific written permission to do so.  I can say that there are
aproximittly 35 - 40 or them at my last count.  As I am aware
they each have documented the history of their contact with Nuelevel
in some detail per my spicific advice some time ago now.  As most of
them are wll legally represented, I am sure they can take the necessary
steps if they deem it advisible to do so, to direct their further actions
whatever those actions may be.  Of course that may create a
financial burdon upon Nuelevel and perhaps yourself personally,
but that now seems far beyond my control or influence.  I am only
parroting the responses and concerns that I am getting to this
forum and yourself so as to at least bring some attention to
this growing/spreading and concerning problem.  As we, through
myself have already offered a number of times, alternitives or
solutions to correct this sort of problem the exausting of that
effort has now reached a point of germinating a more drastic
and perhaps much more costly remedy to be sought.  This I find
distastful and unfortunate, but with the obvious lack of cooperation
from ICANN and it's Registrars/Registries with Registrants, legal
actions may become the only method of addressing and perhaps
eventually solving these types of problems for some registrants,
now obviously growing in number.

  Given the wanton disenfranchizement of many participating
registrants as this thread brings out nicely, but tragically, the
unfortunate and to me personally, disturbing chain of events
is heading in a direction that will cause great constranation
to ICANN as a Organization, and many of it's Registries/Registrars.
However as far back as MdR 2000 some of us saw this perhaps
becomming necessary.

>  In the 8 years I have
> been involved in this industry (which I admit is not as long as others, but
> still not insignificant), I have NEVER heard of anyone who admitted to be
> affiliated with you or your organization.
>
> 2)  Please tell me how I personally can set an opt-out policy for .BIZ
> NeuLevel is contractually governed by the ICANN Registry Agreement with
> ICANN?  If I were to somehow dictate this new policy, please tell me how I
> would avoid a breach of contract action from ICANN? Also, tell me how I
> would not be in breach of my contracts with the Registrars?
>
> 3)  What financial burden are you referring to?
>
> Thanks for your time and I await your response.
>
> P.S. Feel free to call me if you have any questions.

  I just did, and the number you provided is a general Phone #
that has only a voice message...  Of course you may call me
at my phone # listed below any time, and I will either answer,
or return your voice mail message the same day....

> ....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:54 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: Michael D. Palage; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois
>
> Steinle and all former DNSO GA members or other interested parties,
>
>   I know our members that are Nuelevel customers have frequently
> complained about this problem with Nuelevel and other customer
> service related communications as well.
>
>   Opt-Out should be allowed and acted upon by any honest
> Registry/registrar.  Why Mr. Nueman has not directed his
> people from a policy standpoint in this direction remains
> a mystery and a travesty...
>
>   Perhaps it is time for another legal challenge to Nuelevel
> in this area, in order to get their attention, as well as perhaps
> relieve Mr. Nueman of some of his financial burden.
>
> [email-masked] wrote:
>
> >    Thanks for your reply.
> >
> > However I know that there is a "ordinary whois access" and a bulk
> > whois access.
> > All people involved always wrote about bulk whois.
> >
> > Neulevel Support:
> > "ICANN requires that we provide full WHOIS information for each domain
> > name we register.
> > You may, however, have your domain name removed from the list of bulk
> > registration records that we maintain.
> > Please contact your Registrar directly if you would like your domain
> > name to be removed from that list."
> >
> > I forwarded this message to my Registrar (to have my domains removed
> > from the list of bulk registration record).
> >
> > My registrar contacted Neulevel via Phone and wrote following
> > sentences: "We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us,
> > that this change cannot be done. The previous mail was an failure of
> > the NEWLEVEL Supporter."
> >
> > According to NeuLevel (via my Registrar) there is no way to opt-out!
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Michael D. Palage
> >   To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
> >   Cc: [email-masked]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:59 PM
> >   Subject: RE: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >   You are mixing apples with oranges.
> >
> >   Bulk Access DOES NOT EQUAL public access to individual Whois queries
> > via port 43 or a web based interface.
> >
> >   Both the registrar and registry (in the case of thick registry
> > operators) are required by ICANN contract to provide whois information
> > in response to an individual whois query either via port 43 or a web
> > based tool. There is no opt provision for access to this data.
> >
> >   However, the registrar in his ICANN accreditation agreement is
> > required to provide "bulk access" to their Whois data (minus those
> > registrants that opt out) to any party that request it. In return the
> > registrar is able to charge up to $10,000 annually.
> >
> >   The only way I know of to remove your information from both public
> > access Whois and Bulk Whois is through Go Daddy's Domain Proxy
> > service.
> >
> >   I hope this helps navigates these complex issues,
> >
> >   Best regards,
> >
> >   Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    -----Original Message-----
> >   From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:58 AM
> >   To: Michael D. Palage; [email-masked]
> >   Cc: [email-masked]
> >   Subject: Re: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >     This is what I get from my Registrar and from NeuLevel:
> >
> >
> >     Dear Mr. Steinle,
> >
> >     Unfortunatelly we were not able to assert your interests regarding
> > in this matter.
> >     We contacted Newlevel via phone and they told us, that this change
> > cannot be done.
> >
> >     The previous mail was an failure of the NEWLEVEL Supporter.
> >
> >     We apologize for the trouble this may caused.
> >
> >     We really did our best.
> >
> >     Thank you for understanding in this matter.
> >
> >     Should you have any further questions or require any assistance at
> > all,
> >     please do not hesitate to contact us.
> >
> >     With kindest regards,
> >
> >     Your Team @ ...
> >
> >
> >     > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >     > > > > > > From: "Support" <[email-masked]>
> >     > > > > > > To: <[email-masked]>
> >     > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:47 PM
> >     > > > > > > Subject: RE: {Registry#213-999} remove bulk access
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > > Dear Simon-
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > > ICANN requires that we provide full WHOIS information
> > for each
> >     > domain
> >     > > > > name
> >     > > > > > > we register. You may, however, have your domain name
> > removed
> >     from
> >     > the
> >     > > > > list
> >     > > > > > > of bulk registration records that we maintain. Please
> > contact
> >     your
> >     > > > > > Registrar
> >     > > > > > > directly if you would like your domain name to be
> > removed from
> >     > that
> >     > > > > list.
> >     > > > > > >
> >     > > > > > > Kind Regards
> >     > > > > > > Neulevel Support
> >     > > > > > > ___________________________________________
> >     > > > > > > NeuLevel - The home of .biz
> >     > > > > > > Email:    [email-masked]
> >     > > > > > > Web Site: http://www.neulevel.biz
> >
> >       ----- Original Message -----
> >       From: Michael D. Palage
> >       To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
> >       Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:12 PM
> >       Subject: RE: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >       Speaking only on the topic of .info and .biz, it is my
> > understanding of the contracts that the registries do not have a bulk
> > access per se because it is the registrars that own the data.
> > Therefore, if one was to purchase Network Solution's bulk whois data
> > they would  be entitled to all ICANN sanctioned domain names that it
> > sponsors (.com, .org, .net .info, .biz ,etc), provided that the
> > registrant did not opt out as provided for in the ICANN Registrar
> > Accreditation Agreement.
> >
> >       Mike
> >         -----Original Message-----
> >         From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
> > [email-masked]
> >         Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:04 PM
> >         To: [email-masked]
> >         Subject: [ga] BULK whois
> >
> >
> >         Is there a BULK whois file for .info, .biz and .us like there
> > is one for cno domains?
> >         And how could one opt-out of this?
> >
> >         Thanks!
> >         Simon
> >
> >
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
> ================================================================
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:09:57 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

Hello,

- --- "Neuman, Jeff" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> Thanks for your comments.  But let me turn the table on you at this
> point.
> Can you answer the following questions?
> 
> 1)  Who exactly are your members?  If you can please spell those
> specific
> members out on this list, I would be most grateful.  In the 8 years I
> have
> been involved in this industry (which I admit is not as long as
> others, but
> still not insignificant), I have NEVER heard of anyone who admitted
> to be
> affiliated with you or your organization.  

You might not be aware of the Jeff Williams FAQ, at:

http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00112.html

among other places (anyone else have the most recent version??).
INEGroup.com is still free for anyone to register. :)

Enjoy! 

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.GlobalDomination.com/
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Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:30:21 -0600
From: "Kevin M. Kelly" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

Hello!

Thanks for the update!

I will add this information to my list at:

http://www.creepyneighbors.com/jwfaqs/

Regards,
Kevin

<!--
Kevin M. Kelly, Ph.D.
http://www.bioanth.org/kmkelly/
http://www.kellywebworks.com
- -->

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of George
>Kirikos
>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 18:10
>To: Neuman, Jeff
>Cc: [email-masked]
>Subject: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)
>
>
>Hello,
>
>--- "Neuman, Jeff" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> Jeff,
>> 
>> Thanks for your comments.  But let me turn the table on you at this
>> point.
>> Can you answer the following questions?
>> 
>> 1)  Who exactly are your members?  If you can please spell those
>> specific
>> members out on this list, I would be most grateful.  In the 8 years I
>> have
>> been involved in this industry (which I admit is not as long as
>> others, but
>> still not insignificant), I have NEVER heard of anyone who admitted
>> to be
>> affiliated with you or your organization.  
>
>You might not be aware of the Jeff Williams FAQ, at:
>
>http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00112.html
>
>among other places (anyone else have the most recent version??).
>INEGroup.com is still free for anyone to register. :)
>
>Enjoy! 
>
>Sincerely,
>
>George Kirikos
>http://www.GlobalDomination.com/
>--
>This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
>Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
>("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
>Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:08:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Kevin M. Kelly wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Thanks for the update!
>
> I will add this information to my list at:
>
> http://www.creepyneighbors.com/jwfaqs/

but your missing lots of stuff on Jeff.

what about all the newspaper articles where he has been quoted as a
leading expert.  lots of those about.

and the pictures grapevine texas - taken by various members of the ietf
who have paid homage to jeff by driving out of their way to visit his digs
- - or at least drive by with cameras clicking.  where are those links.

i'm afraid i just can't buy the jeff williams faq - when the press telss
me otherwise.

regards
joe baptista

>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> <!--
> Kevin M. Kelly, Ph.D.
> http://www.bioanth.org/kmkelly/
> http://www.kellywebworks.com
> -->
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of George
> >Kirikos
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 18:10
> >To: Neuman, Jeff
> >Cc: [email-masked]
> >Subject: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)
> >
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >--- "Neuman, Jeff" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >> Jeff,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your comments.  But let me turn the table on you at this
> >> point.
> >> Can you answer the following questions?
> >>
> >> 1)  Who exactly are your members?  If you can please spell those
> >> specific
> >> members out on this list, I would be most grateful.  In the 8 years I
> >> have
> >> been involved in this industry (which I admit is not as long as
> >> others, but
> >> still not insignificant), I have NEVER heard of anyone who admitted
> >> to be
> >> affiliated with you or your organization.
> >
> >You might not be aware of the Jeff Williams FAQ, at:
> >
> >http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00112.html
> >
> >among other places (anyone else have the most recent version??).
> >INEGroup.com is still free for anyone to register. :)
> >
> >Enjoy!
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >George Kirikos
> >http://www.GlobalDomination.com/
> >--
> >This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> >Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> >("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> >Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
> --
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>

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------------------------------

Date: 12 Feb 2003 17:50:43 -0800
From: Joe Kelsey <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 17:08, Joe Baptista wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Kevin M. Kelly wrote:
> > http://www.creepyneighbors.com/jwfaqs/
> 
> but your missing lots of stuff on Jeff.

>From the mouth of one internet kook straight into the trash...

> what about all the newspaper articles where he has been quoted as a
> leading expert.  lots of those about.

Just like you seem to have convinced several publications that you
actually have something to contribute, despite your personal history of
flaming every group that strikes your fancy...

> and the pictures grapevine texas - taken by various members of the ietf
> who have paid homage to jeff by driving out of their way to visit his digs
> - or at least drive by with cameras clicking.  where are those links.

So where are the *verified* pictures of Jeff himself?  No one has ever
actually met the thing that claims to be Jeff Williams face-to-face. 
The best that has ever been reported is a telephone conversation with an
unknown entity.

Are there pictures of you anywhere on the Web, Joe?

/Joe

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:19:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Jeff Williams FAQ (was RE: [ga] BULK whois)

On 12 Feb 2003, Joe Kelsey wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 17:08, Joe Baptista wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Kevin M. Kelly wrote:
> > > http://www.creepyneighbors.com/jwfaqs/
> >
> > but your missing lots of stuff on Jeff.
>
> >From the mouth of one internet kook straight into the trash...
>
> > what about all the newspaper articles where he has been quoted as a
> > leading expert.  lots of those about.
>
> Just like you seem to have convinced several publications that you
> actually have something to contribute, despite your personal history of
> flaming every group that strikes your fancy...

i do as i please - thats true.  it's because i can.  i don't live by the
rules.  i'm a free thinker.  and the publications are coming to me - it's
not the other way around.  some people have actually been listening to
what i have to say - making notes - checking them twice - and it would
seem that what i have to say and my knowledge of the industry has value.

why does this not surprise me.

and don't forget - your the one who's wasting your time having Jeff
discussions.  so who's the real fool here.  i take my hat off to jeff -
he's a real inspiration to every evolving electron in the great e.goo
universe.  and you propagate you own self proclaimed fiction in jeff.
don't you think that makes you look a bit silly.

my hat off to jeff - at this rate it's of no consequence if he's real or
fiction.  he's there - and god bless jeff for that.

> > and the pictures grapevine texas - taken by various members of the ietf
> > who have paid homage to jeff by driving out of their way to visit his digs
> > - or at least drive by with cameras clicking.  where are those links.
>
> So where are the *verified* pictures of Jeff himself?  No one has ever
> actually met the thing that claims to be Jeff Williams face-to-face.
> The best that has ever been reported is a telephone conversation with an
> unknown entity.

Oh I know.  I personally have enjoyed many a fine phone conversation with
Jeff myself.  My approach when it comes to Jeff is that I'm on a need to
know basis and i don't need to know.  Everything I need to know about Jeff
comes from reputed established newspapers and other sorted media which you
and everyone else trusts.  That media tells me Jeff is - and so my need to
know ends there.

Of course others have raised Jeff to what i consider diety status.  You
are like cows wandering about questionsing your king.  It's all very
entertaining to me but of no consequence.  As much of these threads
usually end up being - no consequence.

> Are there pictures of you anywhere on the Web, Joe?

linked to my web site www.baptista.god

but ya gotta know hoto arrive before you get there.

regards
joe baptista

Joe Baptista - only at www.baptista.god

   Mac.Nomad (Our Used Macs) - Get the most out of your used Mac. http://mac.nomad/

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------------------------------

Date: 12 Feb 2003 18:26:29 -0800
From: Joe Kelsey <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] RE: Joe Baptista Fantasie

On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 18:19, Joe Baptista wrote:
> On 12 Feb 2003, Joe Kelsey wrote:
> Just like you seem to have convinced several publications that you
> > actually have something to contribute, despite your personal history of
> > flaming every group that strikes your fancy...
> 
> i do as i please - thats true.  it's because i can.  i don't live by the
> rules.  i'm a free thinker.  and the publications are coming to me - it's
> not the other way around.  some people have actually been listening to
> what i have to say - making notes - checking them twice - and it would
> seem that what i have to say and my knowledge of the industry has value.

The Register is not known for either fact checking or spell checking. 
Having your diatribe appear in The Register does not impress anyone,
least of all me.  It only servers to provide proof of your total lack of
any subject-area knowledge.

You have no personal credibility on this list.  Your prior actions speak
much louder than anything else.  Anyone who is tempted to place any
import behind your words would do well to research what the entity known
here as "Joe Baptista" has done in the past.

/Joe

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------------------------------

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