Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1584
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Saturday, February 8 2003         Volume 01 : Number 1584

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:18:24 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Help
The membership of ICANN at LARGE was polled this week.

We aim to be a "bottom up" democratic movement and this poll has =
provided some valuable insights about what we - as a membership - see as =
the scope, mission and direction of our organisation.

The first lesson, I think, is that it is feasible to steer the =
organisation through real democratic involvement of members, and this is =
an important signal to send to ICANN, and its "top down" approach.

Hopefully this Poll will be the precursor of many more, and of a culture =
of democracy which might one day be extended to Internet Governance =
itself. We want members to be involved? We have a mechanism to support =
this.

To some of the findings:

A massive 92% voted for regular polls. This completely contradicts those =
who felt such polls were unwanted. We should not be afraid of "bottom =
up" democracy. The real truth, I believe, is that people are *more* =
likely to get involved, if they feel they are genuinely consulted, =
genuinely involved in decisions, and that our democracy is real. I think =
that if a panel tries to go it alone, and fails to poll members, then =
members are more likely to disengage.

Anyway, 92% is decisive. Regular polls and the use of this kind of =
polling mechanism are here to stay. This is clearly something close to =
the heart of what we are about : a "bottom up" impulse, a belief in =
grassroots democracy, pitted against the autocratic "top down" =
mechanisms that try to sideline democracy.

The Poll asked members if they wanted the organisation to work to create =
an "Umbrella" group for national and regional 'At Large' constituencies =
representing Internet users but operating independently of ICANN.

A clear majority favoured this concept, rather than the ICANN RALO =
approach.

I'm afraid the ICANN RALO initiative has been condemned by the vote of =
this organisation. 69% simply don't trust this ICANN plan. Only 16% do =
trust it. It is clear that our membership sees through ICANN's sham, =
which "claimed" to seek user representation, but in reality this was a =
"top down" agenda to control... to control and contain the real At =
Large, which exists OUTSIDE Icann, while being committed to make =
comments on what goes on INSIDE it. ICANN have been trying to pre-empt =
the real At Large, and set up RALOs before the At Large sets up their =
own independently. In short they have been trying to ensnare a captive =
at large, while attempting to "legitimise" the reform process which =
chose to EXPEL the elected representatives on the Board.

We will have to act decisively on this issue. By a vote of more than 4 =
to 1, our Poll shows a membership which sees through the ICANN =
intentions.

And by a margin of more than 3 to 1, the members voted in favour of =
creating the At Large regional organisations independently and outside =
of ICANN. Only 1 in 5 wanted the ICANN RALOs.

The implications here are pretty clear.

Our majority view (a) publicly refutes the RALOs
(b) is likely to refuse to participate in them
(c) may take early steps to create the structure of a =
worldwide/regional/local umbrella, outside ICANN and its imposed =
ralos... making contact with groups like CECUA and starting to form a =
coalition of user groups to establish a real alternative to ICANN's "top =
down" autocracy.

What we have now is the beginning of "DEFINITION".

At grassroots level, Denise, Esther, internet users do not trust your =
initiative, and do not want ICANN to develop the RALOs structure. At =
grassroots level, people are more clear about ICANN's motives through =
its EXPULSION of elected representatives. Everything you do seems to go =
in the opposite direction from true "bottom up" democracy.

We have had the courage to embrace "bottom up" democracy : we start to =
understand the direction our membership wants to take. You should do the =
same.

I believe our organisation is a prototype, and part of an emerging =
alliance, developing structures and democratic processes and mechanisms, =
and operating from the "bottom up".

I believe ICANN is wholly out of step with the spirit and aspirations of =
the At Large.

Richard Henderson

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Help</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3Dfile://C:\WINDOWS\>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The membership of ICANN at LARGE was polled this week.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We aim to be a "bottom up" democratic movement and this poll has =
provided=20
some valuable insights about what we - as a membership - see as the =
scope,=20
mission and direction of our organisation.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The first lesson, I think, is that it is feasible to steer the =
organisation=20
through real democratic involvement of members, and this is an important =
signal=20
to send to ICANN, and its "top down" approach.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hopefully this Poll will be the precursor of many more, and of a =
culture of=20
democracy which might one day be extended to Internet Governance itself. =
We want=20
members to be involved? We have a mechanism to support this.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>To some of the findings:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A massive 92% voted for regular polls. This completely contradicts =
those=20
who felt such polls were unwanted. We should not be afraid of "bottom =
up"=20
democracy. The real truth, I believe, is that people are *more* likely =
to get=20
involved, if they feel they are genuinely consulted, genuinely involved =
in=20
decisions, and that&nbsp;our democracy is real. I think that&nbsp;if a =
panel=20
tries to go it alone, and fails to poll members, then members are more =
likely to=20
disengage.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Anyway, 92% is decisive. Regular polls and the use of this kind of =
polling=20
mechanism are here to stay. This is clearly something close to the heart =
of what=20
we are about : a "bottom up" impulse, a belief in grassroots democracy, =
pitted=20
against the autocratic "top down"&nbsp;mechanisms&nbsp;that try to =
sideline=20
democracy.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>The Poll&nbsp;asked members if they wanted the organisation to work =
to=20
create an "Umbrella" group for national and regional 'At Large' =
constituencies=20
representing Internet users but operating independently of ICANN.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A clear majority favoured this concept, rather than the ICANN RALO=20
approach.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'm&nbsp;afraid the ICANN RALO initiative has been condemned by the =
vote of=20
this organisation. 69% simply don't trust this ICANN plan. Only 16% do =
trust=20
it.&nbsp;It is clear that our membership sees through ICANN's sham, =
which=20
"claimed" to seek user representation, but in reality this was a "top =
down"=20
agenda to control... to control and contain the real At Large, which =
exists=20
OUTSIDE Icann, while being committed to make comments on what goes on =
INSIDE it.=20
ICANN have been trying to pre-empt the&nbsp;real At Large, and set =
up&nbsp;RALOs=20
before the At Large sets up their own independently. In short they have =
been=20
trying to ensnare a captive at large, while attempting to "legitimise"=20
the&nbsp;reform process which chose to EXPEL the&nbsp;elected =
representatives on=20
the Board.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We will have to act decisively on this issue.&nbsp;By a vote of =
more than 4=20
to 1, our Poll shows&nbsp;a membership which sees through the ICANN=20
intentions.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>And by a margin of more than 3 to 1, the members voted in favour of =

creating&nbsp;the At Large regional organisations independently and =
outside of=20
ICANN. Only 1 in 5 wanted the ICANN RALOs.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The implications here are pretty clear.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Our majority view (a)&nbsp;publicly&nbsp;refutes the RALOs</DIV>
<DIV>(b) is likely to refuse to participate in them</DIV>
<DIV>(c)&nbsp;may take early steps to create the structure of a=20
worldwide/regional/local&nbsp;umbrella, outside ICANN and its imposed=20
ralos...&nbsp;making contact with groups like CECUA and&nbsp;starting to =
form a=20
coalition of user groups&nbsp;to establish a real alternative to ICANN's =
"top=20
down" autocracy.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>What we have now is the beginning of "DEFINITION".</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>At grassroots level, Denise, Esther, internet users do not trust =
your=20
initiative, and do not want ICANN to develop the RALOs structure. At =
grassroots=20
level, people are more clear about ICANN's motives through its EXPULSION =
of=20
elected representatives. Everything you do seems to go in the opposite =
direction=20
from true "bottom up" democracy.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We have had the courage to embrace "bottom up" democracy :&nbsp;we =
start to=20
understand the direction our membership wants to take. You should do the =

same.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I believe our organisation is a prototype, and part of an emerging=20
alliance, developing structures and democratic processes and mechanisms, =
and=20
operating from the "bottom up".</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I believe ICANN is wholly out of step with the spirit and =
aspirations of=20
the At Large.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Richard Henderson</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 13:42:30 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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HelpWhen At Large members were given a choice of 295 people to develop =
an At Large structure, and asked whether they trusted / did not trust =
them to do it, it is interesting that Denise Michel polled 290th out of =
the 295, and Esther Dyson polled 293rd out of the 295.

Does this give some impression of the grassroots disdain for the "Esther =
and Denise Show" ?

When you consider that this Poll was carried out by the largest =
one-member-one-vote At Large group, the very constituency Denise and =
Esther have been trying to organise, the result blows the whistle on =
their agenda.

It is "top down". It is ICANN's own agenda.

Only Louis Touton, Vint Cerf, Joe Sims and Stuart Lynn polled lower than =
Denise.

That shows just how opposed the grassroots At Large members are to =
Denise Michel.

Icann At Large is highly unlikely to have anything to do with this ICANN =
Board attempt to legitimise Stuart Lynn's "coup".

A coup which chose to EXPEL our democratically elected representatives.

Denise is identified with the ICANN Board. Her initiative and agenda is =
seen as the Board's initiative and agenda.

290th out of 295.

Never has it been more obvious that the At Large should organise and =
structure itself OUTSIDE the ICANN power structure.

yrs,

Richard Henderson

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Help</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3Dfile://C:\WINDOWS\>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When At Large members were given a =
choice of 295=20
people to develop an At Large structure, and asked whether they trusted =
/ did=20
not trust them to do it, it is interesting that Denise Michel polled =
290th out=20
of the 295, and Esther Dyson polled 293rd out of the 295.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does this give some impression of the =
grassroots=20
disdain for the "Esther and Denise Show" ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When you consider that this Poll was =
carried out by=20
the largest one-member-one-vote At Large group, the very constituency =
Denise and=20
Esther have been trying to organise, the result blows&nbsp;the whistle =
on their=20
agenda.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is "top down". It is ICANN's own=20
agenda.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Only Louis Touton, Vint Cerf, Joe Sims =
and Stuart=20
Lynn polled lower than Denise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That shows just how opposed the =
grassroots At Large=20
members are to Denise Michel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Icann At Large is highly unlikely to =
have anything=20
to do with this ICANN Board attempt to legitimise Stuart Lynn's=20
"coup".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A coup which chose to EXPEL our =
democratically=20
elected representatives.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Denise is identified with the ICANN =
Board. Her=20
initiative and agenda is seen as the Board's initiative and =
agenda.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>290th out of 295.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Never has it been more obvious that the =
At Large=20
should organise and structure itself OUTSIDE the ICANN power=20
structure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yrs,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard Henderson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:17:02 +0100 (CET)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure (fwd)

I do not see the results published. I would be interested in the number
who voted.

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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 12:04:39 -0500
From: elliot noss <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure

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	format=flowed

I apologize as I am sure that I have missed this, but could you please=20=

provide a link to the results? I am interested in some of the absolute=20=

results as well as some of the geographical issues and would love to=20
drill down.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

On Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 06:18 AM, Richard Henderson wrote:

> =A0
> The membership of ICANN at LARGE was polled this week.
> =A0
> We aim to be a "bottom up" democratic movement and this poll has=20
> provided some valuable insights about what we - as a membership - see=20=

> as the scope, mission and direction of our organisation.
> =A0
> The first lesson, I think, is that it is feasible to steer the=20
> organisation through real democratic involvement of members, and this=20=

> is an important signal to send to ICANN, and its "top down" approach.
> =A0
> Hopefully this Poll will be the precursor of many more, and of a=20
> culture of democracy which might one day be extended to Internet=20
> Governance itself. We want members to be involved? We have a mechanism=20=

> to support this.
> =A0
> To some of the findings:
> =A0
> A massive 92% voted for regular polls. This completely contradicts=20
> those who felt such polls were unwanted. We should not be afraid of=20
> "bottom up" democracy. The real truth, I believe, is that people are=20=

> *more* likely to get involved, if they feel they are genuinely=20
> consulted, genuinely involved in decisions, and that=A0our democracy =
is=20
> real. I think that=A0if a panel tries to go it alone, and fails to =
poll=20
> members, then members are more likely to disengage.
> =A0
> Anyway, 92% is decisive. Regular polls and the use of this kind of=20
> polling mechanism are here to stay. This is clearly something close to=20=

> the heart of what we are about : a "bottom up" impulse, a belief in=20
> grassroots democracy, pitted against the autocratic "top=20
> down"=A0mechanisms=A0that try to sideline democracy.
> =A0
> The Poll=A0asked members if they wanted the organisation to work to=20
> create an "Umbrella" group for national and regional 'At Large'=20
> constituencies representing Internet users but operating independently=20=

> of ICANN.
> =A0
> A clear majority favoured this concept, rather than the ICANN RALO=20
> approach.
> =A0
> I'm=A0afraid the ICANN RALO initiative has been condemned by the vote =
of=20
> this organisation. 69% simply don't trust this ICANN plan. Only 16% do=20=

> trust it.=A0It is clear that our membership sees through ICANN's sham,=20=

> which "claimed" to seek user representation, but in reality this was a=20=

> "top down" agenda to control... to control and contain the real At=20
> Large, which exists OUTSIDE Icann, while being committed to make=20
> comments on what goes on INSIDE it. ICANN have been trying to pre-empt=20=

> the=A0real At Large, and set up=A0RALOs before the At Large sets up =
their=20
> own independently. In short they have been trying to ensnare a captive=20=

> at large, while attempting to "legitimise" the=A0reform process which=20=

> chose to EXPEL the=A0elected representatives on the Board.
> =A0
> We will have to act decisively on this issue.=A0By a vote of more than =
4=20
> to 1, our Poll shows=A0a membership which sees through the ICANN=20
> intentions.
> =A0
> And by a margin of more than 3 to 1, the members voted in favour of=20
> creating=A0the At Large regional organisations independently and =
outside=20
> of ICANN. Only 1 in 5 wanted the ICANN RALOs.
> =A0
> The implications here are pretty clear.
> =A0
> Our majority view (a)=A0publicly=A0refutes the RALOs
> (b) is likely to refuse to participate in them
> (c)=A0may take early steps to create the structure of a=20
> worldwide/regional/local=A0umbrella, outside ICANN and its imposed=20
> ralos...=A0making contact with groups like CECUA and=A0starting to =
form a=20
> coalition of user groups=A0to establish a real alternative to ICANN's=20=

> "top down" autocracy.
> =A0
> What we have now is the beginning of "DEFINITION".
> =A0
> At grassroots level, Denise, Esther, internet users do not trust your=20=

> initiative, and do not want ICANN to develop the RALOs structure. At=20=

> grassroots level, people are more clear about ICANN's motives through=20=

> its EXPULSION of elected representatives. Everything you do seems to=20=

> go in the opposite direction from true "bottom up" democracy.
> =A0
> We have had the courage to embrace "bottom up" democracy :=A0we start =
to=20
> understand the direction our membership wants to take. You should do=20=

> the same.
> =A0
> I believe our organisation is a prototype, and part of an emerging=20
> alliance, developing structures and democratic processes and=20
> mechanisms, and operating from the "bottom up".
> =A0
> I believe ICANN is wholly out of step with the spirit and aspirations=20=

> of the At Large.
> =A0
> Richard Henderson
> =A0

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Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charset=ISO-8859-1

I apologize as I am sure that I have missed this, but could you please
provide a link to the results? I am interested in some of the absolute
results as well as some of the geographical issues and would love to
drill down.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

On Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 06:18 AM, Richard Henderson wrote:

<excerpt>=A0

The membership of ICANN at LARGE was polled this week.

=A0

We aim to be a "bottom up" democratic movement and this poll has
provided some valuable insights about what we - as a membership - see
as the scope, mission and direction of our organisation.

=A0

The first lesson, I think, is that it is feasible to steer the
organisation through real democratic involvement of members, and this
is an important signal to send to ICANN, and its "top down" approach.

=A0

Hopefully this Poll will be the precursor of many more, and of a
culture of democracy which might one day be extended to Internet
Governance itself. We want members to be involved? We have a mechanism
to support this.

=A0

To some of the findings:

=A0

A massive 92% voted for regular polls. This completely contradicts
those who felt such polls were unwanted. We should not be afraid of
"bottom up" democracy. The real truth, I believe, is that people are
*more* likely to get involved, if they feel they are genuinely
consulted, genuinely involved in decisions, and that=A0our democracy is
real. I think that=A0if a panel tries to go it alone, and fails to poll
members, then members are more likely to disengage.

=A0

Anyway, 92% is decisive. Regular polls and the use of this kind of
polling mechanism are here to stay. This is clearly something close to
the heart of what we are about : a "bottom up" impulse, a belief in
grassroots democracy, pitted against the autocratic "top
down"=A0mechanisms=A0that try to sideline democracy.

=A0

The Poll=A0asked members if they wanted the organisation to work to
create an "Umbrella" group for national and regional 'At Large'
constituencies representing Internet users but operating independently
of ICANN.

=A0

A clear majority favoured this concept, rather than the ICANN RALO
approach.

=A0

I'm=A0afraid the ICANN RALO initiative has been condemned by the vote of
this organisation. 69% simply don't trust this ICANN plan. Only 16% do
trust it.=A0It is clear that our membership sees through ICANN's sham,
which "claimed" to seek user representation, but in reality this was a
"top down" agenda to control... to control and contain the real At
Large, which exists OUTSIDE Icann, while being committed to make
comments on what goes on INSIDE it. ICANN have been trying to pre-empt
the=A0real At Large, and set up=A0RALOs before the At Large sets up =
their
own independently. In short they have been trying to ensnare a captive
at large, while attempting to "legitimise" the=A0reform process which
chose to EXPEL the=A0elected representatives on the Board.

=A0

We will have to act decisively on this issue.=A0By a vote of more than 4
to 1, our Poll shows=A0a membership which sees through the ICANN
intentions.

=A0

And by a margin of more than 3 to 1, the members voted in favour of
creating=A0the At Large regional organisations independently and outside
of ICANN. Only 1 in 5 wanted the ICANN RALOs.

=A0

The implications here are pretty clear.

=A0

Our majority view (a)=A0publicly=A0refutes the RALOs

(b) is likely to refuse to participate in them

(c)=A0may take early steps to create the structure of a
worldwide/regional/local=A0umbrella, outside ICANN and its imposed
ralos...=A0making contact with groups like CECUA and=A0starting to form =
a
coalition of user groups=A0to establish a real alternative to ICANN's
"top down" autocracy.

=A0

What we have now is the beginning of "DEFINITION".

=A0

At grassroots level, Denise, Esther, internet users do not trust your
initiative, and do not want ICANN to develop the RALOs structure. At
grassroots level, people are more clear about ICANN's motives through
its EXPULSION of elected representatives. Everything you do seems to
go in the opposite direction from true "bottom up" democracy.

=A0

We have had the courage to embrace "bottom up" democracy :=A0we start to
understand the direction our membership wants to take. You should do
the same.

=A0

I believe our organisation is a prototype, and part of an emerging
alliance, developing structures and democratic processes and
mechanisms, and operating from the "bottom up".

=A0

I believe ICANN is wholly out of step with the spirit and aspirations
of the At Large.

=A0

Richard Henderson

=A0

</excerpt>=

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 13:01:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure

Well I find the poll somewhat irrelevant.  Looks more like a make work
project so everyone can feel relevant.  And my name is on their.  Why?
When i have never offered to place myself in a trust position with
any icann organization.

regards
joe

Joe Baptista - only at www.baptista.god

     VRx Network Services - http://lighting.faq/ - The Lighting FAQ
     >>>>>>>> one of the first inclusive namespace domains <<<<<<<<

On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Richard Henderson wrote:

> HelpWhen At Large members were given a choice of 295 people to develop an At Large structure, and asked whether they trusted / did not trust them to do it, it is interesting that Denise Michel polled 290th out of the 295, and Esther Dyson polled 293rd out of the 295.
>
> Does this give some impression of the grassroots disdain for the "Esther and Denise Show" ?
>
> When you consider that this Poll was carried out by the largest one-member-one-vote At Large group, the very constituency Denise and Esther have been trying to organise, the result blows the whistle on their agenda.
>
> It is "top down". It is ICANN's own agenda.
>
> Only Louis Touton, Vint Cerf, Joe Sims and Stuart Lynn polled lower than Denise.
>
> That shows just how opposed the grassroots At Large members are to Denise Michel.
>
> Icann At Large is highly unlikely to have anything to do with this ICANN Board attempt to legitimise Stuart Lynn's "coup".
>
> A coup which chose to EXPEL our democratically elected representatives.
>
> Denise is identified with the ICANN Board. Her initiative and agenda is seen as the Board's initiative and agenda.
>
> 290th out of 295.
>
> Never has it been more obvious that the At Large should organise and structure itself OUTSIDE the ICANN power structure.
>
> yrs,
>
>
> Richard Henderson
>
>

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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 18:08:34 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Elliot,

I gather the results are posted at:
www.icannatlarge.com/voting.htm

as well as at www.pollingbooth.info but access there is passworded

Richard H

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: elliot noss=20
  To: Richard Henderson=20
  Cc: [email-masked]=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 5:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At =
Large structure

  I apologize as I am sure that I have missed this, but could you please =
provide a link to the results? I am interested in some of the absolute =
results as well as some of the geographical issues and would love to =
drill down.

  Thanks in advance.

  Regards

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2CF9D.189F3FA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Elliot,<BR><BR>I gather the results =
are posted=20
at:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.icannatlarge.com/voting.htm">www.icannatlarge.com/voti=
ng.htm</A><BR><BR>as=20
well as at <A =
href=3D"http://www.pollingbooth.info">www.pollingbooth.info</A> but=20
access there is passworded</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard H<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" title=[email-masked]>elliot =
noss</A>=20
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
  title=[email-masked]>Richard Henderson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
  title=[email-masked]>[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 08, =
2003 5:04=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ga] Icann At =
Large Poll=20
  rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Large structure</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>I apologize as I am sure that I have missed this, but =
could you=20
  please provide a link to the results? I am interested in some of the =
absolute=20
  results as well as some of the geographical issues and would love to =
drill=20
  down.<BR><BR>Thanks in=20
advance.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2CF9D.189F3FA0--

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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 18:24:36 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At Largestructure

171 people took part in the ballot.

This was virtually the same as our last ballot to confirm our name, when 170
people voted.

From this you can deduce that, even though there were a dozen quite detailed
questions, the core of our membership wanted to get involved.

They also expressed a clear majority wish for more polls and regular polls.

Clearly, with a membership of over 1000, you could ask "Where are the rest?"

But I think any group like ours attracts sympathetic watchers who want to be
members without getting drawn in too deep.

Everyone can draw their own conclusions.

The results are informative, as far as they go.

They will help our organisation determine its future, and they are a green
light to much more co-operation with other At Large orgs around the world,
to build a coalition outside the unpopular ICANN structure. They also
effectively stop any support from our organisation for the RALOs dead in its
tracks.

As far as the list of names to trust/mistrust goes, I did not see this in
advance, but I find it an interesting indicator of opinion with regard to
Denise Michel and Esther Dyson's initiative. I don't say this as any
personal criticism of the people involved. I just think that (taken with the
other votes) it demonstrates the opposition that exists to a "top down"
ICANN agenda.

At least we have actively initiated a "bottom up" process.

It's a shame ICANN won't do the same. It's a shame they chose to EXPEL the
elected representatives on their Board. No wonder the grassroots of the At
Large don't trust them.

Richard Henderson

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] Icann At Large Poll rejects RALOs and ICANN's new At
Largestructure (fwd)

> I do not see the results published. I would be interested in the number
> who voted.
>
> --
> [04] We value you like our close relations.

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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 13:56:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] The list - atlarge vote of trust/distrust: result 

for those who have not seen "the list" here it is.  who gave permission to
have their names put on this crap.  And where's Jeff Williams - I can't
find him on the list.  One of the most important movers and shackers in
dns - one of the biggest contributors in ascii production alone - where is
his name?

regards
joe ;)

Joe Baptista - only at www.baptista.god

      http://www.nic.god /
   http://www.nic.satan /
                       / or if your computer is backwards
                      / http://www.dot-god.com

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 01:05:30 +1200
From: At Larger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: atlarge vote of trust/distrust: result

Trust Factor	Trust Rank	Forname	Name
+44,58	001	Karl	Auerbach
+33,28	002	Joop	Teernstra
+24,32	003	Andy	Mueller-Maguehn
+23,08	004	Judyth	Mermelstein
+19,30	005	Jefsey	Morfin
+17,58	006	Danny	Younger
+16,79	007	Michael	Froomkin
+16,79	007	Michael	Geist
+15,70	009	Sotiris	Sotiropoulos
+15,38	010	Richard	Henderson
+14,29	011	Izumi	Aizu
+13,19	012	Brett	Fausett
+12,71	013	Jamie	Love
+12,40	014	Joanna	Lane
+12,09	015	Bruce	Young
+11,30	016	Dave	Farber
+11,30	016	Elisabeth	Porteneuve
+10,99	018	Jeanette	Hoffmann
+10,99	018	Wolfgang	Kleinwaechter
+10,20	020	David	Farrar
+10,20	020	Milton	Mueller
+09,89	022	Barbara	Simons
+09,72	023	Judith	Oppenheimer
+09,41	024	Vittorio	Bertola
+09,10	025	YJ	Park
+08,63	026	Hans	Klein
+07,69	027	Jun	Murai
+07,69	027	Adam	Peake
+07,69	027	Ron	Sherwood
+06,59	030	Chris	Chiu
+06,59	030	Roberto	Gaetano
+06,59	030	Jonathan	Zittrain
+05,81	033	James	Khan
+05,49	034	Pierre	Dandjinou
+05,49	034	Alan	Davidson
+05,49	034	Raoul	Echeberria
+05,49	034	Dinesh	Nair
+05,49	034	Abel	Wisman
+04,71	039	Einar	Stefferud
+04,40	040	Mikki	Barry
+04,40	040	Diane	Cabell
+04,40	040	Patrick	Corliss
+04,40	040	Rob	Courtney
+04,40	040	Peter	Dandjinou
+04,40	040	Richard	Delmas
+04,40	040	Clement	Dzidonu
+04,40	040	Xue	Hong
+04,40	040	Tarek	Kamel
+04,40	040	Kirsty	McKee
+04,40	040	Carl	Oppedahl
+04,40	040	Ellen	Rony
+04,40	040	Dan	Steinberg
+04,40	040	Jonathan	Weinberg
+04,23	054	Thomas	Roessler
+03,92	055	Erick	Iriarte
+03,61	056	Harald	Alvestrand
+03,61	056	Norbert	Klein
+03,61	056	Peter Dengate	Trush
+03,30	059	Dominic	Baron
+03,30	059	Horacio	Cadiz
+03,30	059	Olivier	Crepin-Leblond
+03,30	059	Patrick	Greenwell
+03,30	059	Perpétus Jacques	Houngbo
+03,30	059	Caroline	Hughes
+03,30	059	Bill	Lovell
+03,30	059	Slobodan	Markovic
+03,30	059	Roeland	Meyers
+03,30	059	Srikanth	Narra
+03,30	059	Walter	Schmidt
+03,30	059	Wendy	Seltzer
+03,30	059	Stephen	Waters
+03,30	059	Tan Tin 	Wee
+02,51	073	Oscar	Robles
+02,20	074	Zakaria	Amar
+02,20	074	Thierry	Amoussougbo
+02,20	074	Joe	Bordo
+02,20	074	Greg	Burton
+02,20	074	I.	Corazon
+02,20	074	Chuck	Costello
+02,20	074	Kendall	Dawson
+02,20	074	Peter	Hyde
+02,20	074	Jaz-Michael	King
+02,20	074	George	Kirikos
+02,20	074	Kathryn	Klein
+02,20	074	Sue	Leader
+02,20	074	Joseph	Lee
+02,20	074	Gilbert	Lumantao
+02,20	074	Gene	Marsh
+02,20	074	Chris	McElroy
+02,20	074	Robin	Miller
+02,20	074	Alain	Moscowitz
+02,20	074	Gabriel	Piñeiro
+02,20	074	Carlos	Quintana
+02,20	074	Hakikur	Rahman
+02,20	074	Manon	Ress
+02,20	074	Dennis	Schaeffer
+02,20	074	David	Schutt
+02,20	074	Charles	Shaaban
+02,20	074	Craig	Simon
+02,20	074	Jan	Siren
+02,20	074	Chris	Streatfield
+02,20	074	Paul	Svennson
+02,20	074	Mike	Todd
+02,20	074	Keith	Weiner
+02,20	074	Eric	Weisberg
+02,20	074	Jessica	West
+02,03	107	Alexander	Svensson
+01,72	108	Leah	Gallegos
+01,72	108	Masanobu	Katoh
+01,72	108	Wawa	Ngenge
+01,41	111	John	Berryhill
+01,41	111	Ken	Fockler
+01,41	111	David	Post
+01,41	111	Jonathan	Robin
+01,41	111	Hur	Sang-Soo
+01,41	111	Michael	Schneider
+01,41	111	Dany	Vandromme
+01,24	118	Amadeu	Abril i Abril
+01,24	118	Ben	Edelman
+01,10	120	Jim	Ayson
+01,10	120	Chris	Bayley
+01,10	120	Pascal	Bernhard
+01,10	120	Stephane	Bortzmeyer
+01,10	120	Ted	Byfield
+01,10	120	Anupam	Chander
+01,10	120	Maria	Chiari
+01,10	120	Susan	Crawford
+01,10	120	Asaad	el Najjar
+01,10	120	J. Scott	Evans
+01,10	120	Ray	Fassett
+01,10	120	Jeff	Field
+01,10	120	Arnold	Gehring
+01,10	120	Todd	Glassey
+01,10	120	Jean-Louis	Grangé
+01,10	120	Darrell	Greenwood
+01,10	120	Simon	Higgs
+01,10	120	Bruce	James
+01,10	120	Eric	Jonvel
+01,10	120	Yangwoo	Ko
+01,10	120	Mark	Langston
+01,10	120	Soobok	Lee
+01,10	120	Tom	Lowenhaupt
+01,10	120	Andrew	McMeikan
+01,10	120	Mikael	Pawlo
+01,10	120	Roozbeh	Pournader
+01,10	120	Sureshwaran	Ramadass
+01,10	120	Sebastian	Ricciardi
+01,10	120	Russ	Smith
+01,10	120	Lawrence	Solum
+01,10	120	Loren	Stocker
+01,10	120	Edmundo	Valenti
+00,62	152	Eric	Dierker
+00,62	152	Ivan	Mora Campos
+00,62	152	Marc	Schneiders
+00,31	155	Hugh	Blair
+00,31	155	Kwasi	Boakye-Akyeampong
+00,31	155	Gordon	Cook
+00,31	155	Sarah	Deutsch
+00,31	155	Harold	Feld
+00,31	155	Alf	Hansen
+00,31	155	Geoff	Huston
+00,31	155	Daniel	Kaplan
+00,31	155	Bruno	Oudet
+00,31	155	Louis	Pouzin
+00,00	165	Rex	Barnes
+00,00	165	Giampaolo	Bonora
+00,00	165	John Charles	Broomfield
+00,00	165	Don	Brown
+00,00	165	Daniel	Carras
+00,00	165	Paul	Cotton
+00,00	165	Greg	Crew
+00,00	165	Phil	Davidson
+00,00	165	John	Englund
+00,00	165	Eva	Frolich
+00,00	165	Michael	Gendron
+00,00	165	Jason	Graff
+00,00	165	Elena	Grassi
+00,00	165	Sandy	Harris
+00,00	165	Manual	Hurtado
+00,00	165	Mark	Jeftovic
+00,00	165	Per	Koelle
+00,00	165	Dori	Kornfeld
+00,00	165	Tim	Langdell
+00,00	165	Jon	Lawrence
+00,00	165	Dongman	Lee
+00,00	165	Alan	Liska
+00,00	165	Michael	McNulty
+00,00	165	Patrick	Mevzek
+00,00	165	Eray	Ozkural
+00,00	165	Steve	Page
+00,00	165	John	Palmer
+00,00	165	Ivan	Pope
+00,00	165	Teddy	Purwadi
+00,00	165	John	Reynolds
+00,00	165	Hendrik	Rood
+00,00	165	Aaron	Schmiedel
+00,00	165	Andrew	Shen
+00,00	165	Donald	Simon
+00,00	165	Michael	Sondow
+00,00	165	Paul	Stahura
+00,00	165	Shephen	Waters
+00,00	165	Rick	Weingarten
+00,00	165	Rick	Wesson
+00,00	165	Harold	Whiting
+00,00	165	Greg	Zafiris
- -00,17	206	Pindar	Wong
- -00,48	207	Perry	Metzger
- -00,79	208	Bob	Allisat
- -00,79	208	Chris	Ambler
- -00,79	208	Mark	Bohannon
- -00,79	208	Robert	Connelly
- -00,79	208	Rod	Dixon
- -00,79	208	Chun	Eung Hwi
- -00,79	208	Jay	Fenello
- -00,79	208	Sanjeev	Goyal
- -00,79	208	Ronda	Hauben
- -00,79	208	Steven	Heath
- -00,79	208	David	Hernand
- -00,79	208	Sacha	Ignjatovic
- -00,79	208	Bruno	Jaffre
- -00,79	208	Mark	Measday
- -00,79	208	Jeff	Neuman
- -00,79	208	Eliot	Noss
- -00,79	208	Ross	Rader
- -00,79	208	James	Seng
- -00,95	226	Nii	Quaynor
- -01,58	227	Vivek	Durai
- -01,58	227	Olivier	Iteanu
- -01,58	227	Daniel	Kaplan
- -01,89	230	Cary	Carp
- -01,89	230	Derek	Conant
- -01,89	230	Earl	Heather
- -01,89	230	Mike	Helzer
- -01,89	230	Jason	Hendeles
- -01,89	230	Curtis	Kularski
- -01,89	230	Miriam	Sapiro
- -01,89	230	William	Semich
- -01,89	230	Micheall	Sherrill
- -01,89	230	Javier	Sola
- -01,89	230	Anthony	van Couvering
- -01,89	230	Carlos	Vera
- -02,05	242	Randy	Bush
- -02,67	243	Sebastien	Bachollet
- -02,67	243	Andy	Duff
- -02,67	243	Karl	E.Peters
- -02,67	243	Deif	Fenderson
- -02,67	243	Richard	Hill
- -02,67	243	Richard	Sexton
- -03,15	249	Linda	Wilson
- -03,46	250	Darryl	Lynch
- -03,46	250	Vany	Martinez
- -03,77	252	George	Conrades
- -03,77	252	Martin	Schwimmer
- -03,77	252	Holger	Steiner
- -04,25	255	Chuck	Gomes
- -04,25	255	Brian	Mulroney
- -04,56	257	Andy	Gardner
- -04,56	257	Siegfried	Langenbach
- -04,56	257	Michael	Palage
- -04,56	257	George	Sadowski
- -04,56	257	Theresa	Sweinhart
- -04,56	257	Eugenio	Triana
- -05,04	263	Dave	Crocker
- -05,35	264	Geraldine	Capdeboscq
- -05,35	264	Kevin	Kelly
- -05,66	266	Tim	Burlee
- -05,66	266	Caroline	Chicoine
- -05,66	266	Frank	Fitzsimmons
- -05,66	266	Steve	Metalitz
- -05,66	266	Robert	Shaw
- -05,83	271	Carl	Bildt
- -06,14	272	Jim	Fleming
- -06,30	273	Alejandro	Pisanty
- -06,45	274	Philip	Sheppard
- -07,55	275	Larry	Fuss
- -07,71	276	Joe	Baptista
- -08,02	277	Jonathan	Cohen
- -09,12	278	Helmut	Schink
- -09,91	279	Satyajit	Gupta
- -11,01	280	Marilyn	Cade
- -12,90	281	Ken	Stubs
- -13,21	282	Bradley	Thornton
- -13,21	282	William X.	Walsh
- -14,47	284	Andrew	McLaughlin
- -15,09	285	Don	Heath
- -16,67	286	Mike	Roberts
- -16,98	287	Nancy	Victory
- -19,66	288	Hans	Kraaijenbrink
- -20,75	289	Kent	Crispin
- -21,54	290	Denise	Michel
- -24,22	291	Louis	Touton
- -26,91	292	Vint	Cerf
- -27,53	293	Esther	Dyson
- -29,09	294	Joe	Sims
- -39,31	295	Stuart	Lynn

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