Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1554
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST          Tuesday, January 14 2003          Volume 01 : Number 1554

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:47:56 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Dave and all former DNSO GA members,

DPF wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:25:48 -0500, "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA"
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> >David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs do... in this area.
> >Do you know what Domainz does?
>
> Domainz are no longer the registry and now just a registrar.  Policies
> for .nz are (for those interested) at
> http://www.dnc.org.nz/story/30037-35-1.html
>
> The policies do place a requirement on registrants to have correct
> whois data with an ultimate sanction of cancellation.  Specific
> deadlines are not mandated but are at the discretion of the Domain
> Name Commissioner.  So if for example there is just a wrong phone
> number hasty action is unlikely to say the least but if someone has
> registered under the name of Mickey Mouse then things would move
> faster.
>
> The policy is due to be reviewed in the next year or so and
> consultation will occur with the internet community on this and other
> issues.
>
> >Is there a way to find out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such
> >as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.?
>
> One of the unfortunate things about the prolonged stand off between
> ICANN and the ccTLDs is that most of the meetings has been focused on
> political negotiations etc and less time on sharing information on
> policies and practices.  Hopefully in the very near future this
> situation will be remedied and then ccTLD ICANN meetings will be a
> great forum for getting feedback on how for example large ccTLDs deal
> with fake whois data.

  Some of these issues have been discussed on the ccTLD constituency
ML some time ago...  However that list has been pretty quiet of late...

>
>
> In the interim the best way to find out would be to get someone with
> access to the ccTLD mailing list to ask the question and seek replies
> off list for collation.

  I have a version of carnivore that can pull this stuff upon demand.
Some of the individual ccTLD's ML's are also open to anyone to
subscribe to as well...  However a number of our members are subscribed
to most if not all of the existing ccTLD ML's, and frequently I am copied
or forwarded those posts.  But due to the nastiness of Thomas and
Alex's antics on the DNSO GA list I have refrained from forwarding
any of those posts here as that could be indiscriminately considered
either "Off Topic" or some other obtuse violation of this lists questionably
legitimate "Rules"...  But of course this is the kind of "Non-Communication"
that results dues to such silliness...

>
>
> DPF
>
> --
> E-mail: [email-masked]
> ICQ:    29964527
> MSN:    [email-masked]
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:07:27 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Dora and all former DNSO GA members,

Dora Gerber wrote:

> Dear Marilyn and all,
>
> FYI - this is how the CH and LI people do it:
>
> http://www.switch.ch/id/terms/policy.html

  Thank you Dora for this interesting information.  I am sure that
Merilyn appriciated it also even though she may not admit it publicly.

  I found the following parts most interesting (Excerpts follow):

22.Warnings: CH/LI DOM-REG may issue warnings in case of
   obvious possible name      onflicts or when names are likely to
   conflict with another name, trade name, trade mark ™, service
   mark (SM) etc. CH/LI DOM-REG, however, has no obligation
  to issue such warnings. After a warning has been issued, the
  corresponding application for a second level domain name is
  interrupted until until confirmation by the registrant in the
  form of a new application is received. CH/LI DOM-REG may,
  however, at its own discretion interrupt the registration until
 the entity seeking for registration submits within reasonable
time to CH/LI DOM-REG a written confirmation of the holder
of the conflicting name, trade name, trade mark ™, service
mark (SM) etc. that the application is valid and that holder
agrees with the application. In such a case, a new application
form needs to be submitted to the registry when the case is
resolved for both parties.

23.Suspension of registration: when an entity submits grossly
    erroneous and/or misleading application forms repeatedly
    and/or in large quantities, the registry may suspend the
    registration process for such an entity until, in estimation
    of CH/LI DOM-REG, the registration process can be
    restored in an orderly manner.

 24.WHOIS entry: CH/LI DOM-REG registers domain
     names in an own repository which answers authoritatively
    for second level domain names in CH and LI. This information
    may also be retrieved from a search engine run by SWITCH.
   European domain names are contained in a distributed database
   maintained by RIPE NCC which can be queried by means of
   command 'whois -h whois.ripe.net <domain name>'. This query
   supplies the name of the domain, its administrative and technical
   contacts and pointers to hosts providing name service for the
   domain. To use WHOIS with a local whois client type
   'whois -h whois.nic.ch domainname.ch/li' for on-line queries
   of second level domain name information in CH and LI.

 25.Privacy: CH/LI DOM-REG reserves the right to make
     entries in the WHOIS data bases publicly available in
     any electronic and written form.

 26.Applicable law, jurisdiction: this domain name policy shall
      be governed by and construed according to Swiss law.
      The courts of Zürich shall have exclusive jurisdiction to
      settle any disputes that may arise out of or in connection
      with this domain name policy.

>
>
> Regards, Dora Gerber
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
> To: "DPF" <[email-masked]>; "Vittorio Bertola" <[email-masked]>;
> "Sabine van-almsick (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>;
> <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
>
> > David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs
> do... in this area.  Do you know what Domainz does? Is there a way to find
> out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.?
> Perhaps there is learning which the gTLDs can take from the ccTLDs. Many
> ccTLDs have regisrtrations from other countries so have the postal delivery
> issues as well.
> >
> > I'd be happy to post any relevant and factual responses we might be able
> to get to the WHOIS TF list.
> >
> > Regards, Marilyn Cade
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:47 PM
> > To: Vittorio Bertola
> > Cc: [email-masked]; Cade,Marilyn S - LGA;
> > [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:40 +0100, Vittorio Bertola
> > <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:59 +1300, you wrote:
> > >
> > >>If the registrant is a legitimate user, then once their domain stops
> > >>working they will eventually contact the registrar to get it fixed.
> > >
> > >The problem is that it might be too late - you might already be losing
> > >valuable e-mail messages or website traffic. So even before putting
> > >the domain on hold all efforts have to be made to contact the
> > >registrant and fix the problem (and let alone the fact that one has
> > >the right not to expose his/her identity to the whole world).
> >
> > The issue of should you be allowed to be anonymous is a slightly
> > different debate.  For now the policy is you need correct data and the
> > issue is how to mitigate potential loss of a domain and purchase by
> > someone else (which is far worse).
> >
> > I agree putting on hold is not without consequences and there should
> > be a minimum of three attempts to contact the registrant.
> >
> > DPF
> > --
> > E-mail: [email-masked]
> > ICQ:    29964527
> > MSN:    [email-masked]
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 00:26:30 +0100 (CET)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Reports

Have you any idea where the reports are that ICANN contracted to
deliver at the end of last year, as per the new article of its MoU
(contract) with DoC:

"ICANN shall submit a report to the Department no later than November
30, 2002, providing a description of the current status of the root
server system. ICANN shall submit a report to the Department no later
than December 31, 2002, providing a description of the proposal for
enhanced architecture for root server security as set forth above, a
procedural plan for the transition to such enhanced architecture, and
an implementation schedule for such transition."
(http://www.icann.org/general/amend5-jpamou-19sep02.htm)

- -- 
[06] This email is really a confirmation.
http://logoff.org/

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:52:33 -0500
From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Dear Jeff

Of course I'm happy to thank Dora publicly. 

You might want to note that my name is actually spelled "Marilyn", not Merilyn as you've probably accidently misspelled it. 

However, I answer to all efforts to reach me.... when it is seemingly apparent that the intent is to reach the real me.

Marilyn

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Williams [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:07 PM
To: Dora Gerber
Cc: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA; DPF; Vittorio Bertola; Sabine van-almsick
(E-mail); [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Dora and all former DNSO GA members,

Dora Gerber wrote:

> Dear Marilyn and all,
>
> FYI - this is how the CH and LI people do it:
>
> http://www.switch.ch/id/terms/policy.html

  Thank you Dora for this interesting information.  I am sure that
Merilyn appriciated it also even though she may not admit it publicly.

  I found the following parts most interesting (Excerpts follow):

22.Warnings: CH/LI DOM-REG may issue warnings in case of
   obvious possible name      onflicts or when names are likely to
   conflict with another name, trade name, trade mark (tm), service
   mark (SM) etc. CH/LI DOM-REG, however, has no obligation
  to issue such warnings. After a warning has been issued, the
  corresponding application for a second level domain name is
  interrupted until until confirmation by the registrant in the
  form of a new application is received. CH/LI DOM-REG may,
  however, at its own discretion interrupt the registration until
 the entity seeking for registration submits within reasonable
time to CH/LI DOM-REG a written confirmation of the holder
of the conflicting name, trade name, trade mark (tm), service
mark (SM) etc. that the application is valid and that holder
agrees with the application. In such a case, a new application
form needs to be submitted to the registry when the case is
resolved for both parties.

23.Suspension of registration: when an entity submits grossly
    erroneous and/or misleading application forms repeatedly
    and/or in large quantities, the registry may suspend the
    registration process for such an entity until, in estimation
    of CH/LI DOM-REG, the registration process can be
    restored in an orderly manner.

 24.WHOIS entry: CH/LI DOM-REG registers domain
     names in an own repository which answers authoritatively
    for second level domain names in CH and LI. This information
    may also be retrieved from a search engine run by SWITCH.
   European domain names are contained in a distributed database
   maintained by RIPE NCC which can be queried by means of
   command 'whois -h whois.ripe.net <domain name>'. This query
   supplies the name of the domain, its administrative and technical
   contacts and pointers to hosts providing name service for the
   domain. To use WHOIS with a local whois client type
   'whois -h whois.nic.ch domainname.ch/li' for on-line queries
   of second level domain name information in CH and LI.

 25.Privacy: CH/LI DOM-REG reserves the right to make
     entries in the WHOIS data bases publicly available in
     any electronic and written form.

 26.Applicable law, jurisdiction: this domain name policy shall
      be governed by and construed according to Swiss law.
      The courts of Zürich shall have exclusive jurisdiction to
      settle any disputes that may arise out of or in connection
      with this domain name policy.

>
>
> Regards, Dora Gerber
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
> To: "DPF" <[email-masked]>; "Vittorio Bertola" <[email-masked]>;
> "Sabine van-almsick (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>;
> <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
>
> > David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs
> do... in this area.  Do you know what Domainz does? Is there a way to find
> out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.?
> Perhaps there is learning which the gTLDs can take from the ccTLDs. Many
> ccTLDs have regisrtrations from other countries so have the postal delivery
> issues as well.
> >
> > I'd be happy to post any relevant and factual responses we might be able
> to get to the WHOIS TF list.
> >
> > Regards, Marilyn Cade
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:47 PM
> > To: Vittorio Bertola
> > Cc: [email-masked]; Cade,Marilyn S - LGA;
> > [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:40 +0100, Vittorio Bertola
> > <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:59 +1300, you wrote:
> > >
> > >>If the registrant is a legitimate user, then once their domain stops
> > >>working they will eventually contact the registrar to get it fixed.
> > >
> > >The problem is that it might be too late - you might already be losing
> > >valuable e-mail messages or website traffic. So even before putting
> > >the domain on hold all efforts have to be made to contact the
> > >registrant and fix the problem (and let alone the fact that one has
> > >the right not to expose his/her identity to the whole world).
> >
> > The issue of should you be allowed to be anonymous is a slightly
> > different debate.  For now the policy is you need correct data and the
> > issue is how to mitigate potential loss of a domain and purchase by
> > someone else (which is far worse).
> >
> > I agree putting on hold is not without consequences and there should
> > be a minimum of three attempts to contact the registrant.
> >
> > DPF
> > --
> > E-mail: [email-masked]
> > ICQ:    29964527
> > MSN:    [email-masked]
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
- --
This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:47:08 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

MArilyn and all former DNSO GA members,

  Pardon the inadvertent misspelling of your given name.  It was indeed not intentional.

  I am glad to NOW hear that you in your post below publicly thanked
Dora for her assistance, after my suggestion of course.  >;).  I am sorry
that you could not afford me the same common courtesy from my earlier
post on this thread and your original request.
See:http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc11/msg01548.html
and my response providing most of the ccTLD information that
you requested, see:http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc11/msg01551.html
Perhaps such an oversight on your part was a lapse of some yet unknown sort?

In any event I hope that the references were of some yet again assistance
for you and helped satisfy your request, regardless...

BTW, is this the real MArilyn Cade or is it memorex?  >;)

Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:

> Dear Jeff
>
> Of course I'm happy to thank Dora publicly.
>
> You might want to note that my name is actually spelled "Marilyn", not Merilyn as you've probably accidently misspelled it.
>
> However, I answer to all efforts to reach me.... when it is seemingly apparent that the intent is to reach the real me.
>
> Marilyn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:07 PM
> To: Dora Gerber
> Cc: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA; DPF; Vittorio Bertola; Sabine van-almsick
> (E-mail); [email-masked]; [email-masked];
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
>
> Dora and all former DNSO GA members,
>
> Dora Gerber wrote:
>
> > Dear Marilyn and all,
> >
> > FYI - this is how the CH and LI people do it:
> >
> > http://www.switch.ch/id/terms/policy.html
>
>   Thank you Dora for this interesting information.  I am sure that
> Merilyn appriciated it also even though she may not admit it publicly.
>
>   I found the following parts most interesting (Excerpts follow):
>
> 22.Warnings: CH/LI DOM-REG may issue warnings in case of
>    obvious possible name      onflicts or when names are likely to
>    conflict with another name, trade name, trade mark (tm), service
>    mark (SM) etc. CH/LI DOM-REG, however, has no obligation
>   to issue such warnings. After a warning has been issued, the
>   corresponding application for a second level domain name is
>   interrupted until until confirmation by the registrant in the
>   form of a new application is received. CH/LI DOM-REG may,
>   however, at its own discretion interrupt the registration until
>  the entity seeking for registration submits within reasonable
> time to CH/LI DOM-REG a written confirmation of the holder
> of the conflicting name, trade name, trade mark (tm), service
> mark (SM) etc. that the application is valid and that holder
> agrees with the application. In such a case, a new application
> form needs to be submitted to the registry when the case is
> resolved for both parties.
>
> 23.Suspension of registration: when an entity submits grossly
>     erroneous and/or misleading application forms repeatedly
>     and/or in large quantities, the registry may suspend the
>     registration process for such an entity until, in estimation
>     of CH/LI DOM-REG, the registration process can be
>     restored in an orderly manner.
>
>  24.WHOIS entry: CH/LI DOM-REG registers domain
>      names in an own repository which answers authoritatively
>     for second level domain names in CH and LI. This information
>     may also be retrieved from a search engine run by SWITCH.
>    European domain names are contained in a distributed database
>    maintained by RIPE NCC which can be queried by means of
>    command 'whois -h whois.ripe.net <domain name>'. This query
>    supplies the name of the domain, its administrative and technical
>    contacts and pointers to hosts providing name service for the
>    domain. To use WHOIS with a local whois client type
>    'whois -h whois.nic.ch domainname.ch/li' for on-line queries
>    of second level domain name information in CH and LI.
>
>  25.Privacy: CH/LI DOM-REG reserves the right to make
>      entries in the WHOIS data bases publicly available in
>      any electronic and written form.
>
>  26.Applicable law, jurisdiction: this domain name policy shall
>       be governed by and construed according to Swiss law.
>       The courts of Zürich shall have exclusive jurisdiction to
>       settle any disputes that may arise out of or in connection
>       with this domain name policy.
>
> >
> >
> > Regards, Dora Gerber
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
> > To: "DPF" <[email-masked]>; "Vittorio Bertola" <[email-masked]>;
> > "Sabine van-almsick (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>
> > Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>;
> > <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:25 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
> >
> > > David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs
> > do... in this area.  Do you know what Domainz does? Is there a way to find
> > out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.?
> > Perhaps there is learning which the gTLDs can take from the ccTLDs. Many
> > ccTLDs have regisrtrations from other countries so have the postal delivery
> > issues as well.
> > >
> > > I'd be happy to post any relevant and factual responses we might be able
> > to get to the WHOIS TF list.
> > >
> > > Regards, Marilyn Cade
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:47 PM
> > > To: Vittorio Bertola
> > > Cc: [email-masked]; Cade,Marilyn S - LGA;
> > > [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > > Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:40 +0100, Vittorio Bertola
> > > <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:59 +1300, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>If the registrant is a legitimate user, then once their domain stops
> > > >>working they will eventually contact the registrar to get it fixed.
> > > >
> > > >The problem is that it might be too late - you might already be losing
> > > >valuable e-mail messages or website traffic. So even before putting
> > > >the domain on hold all efforts have to be made to contact the
> > > >registrant and fix the problem (and let alone the fact that one has
> > > >the right not to expose his/her identity to the whole world).
> > >
> > > The issue of should you be allowed to be anonymous is a slightly
> > > different debate.  For now the policy is you need correct data and the
> > > issue is how to mitigate potential loss of a domain and purchase by
> > > someone else (which is far worse).
> > >
> > > I agree putting on hold is not without consequences and there should
> > > be a minimum of three attempts to contact the registrant.
> > >
> > > DPF
> > > --
> > > E-mail: [email-masked]
> > > ICQ:    29964527
> > > MSN:    [email-masked]
> > > --
> > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > >
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
> ================================================================
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:57:16 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [GTLD Registries List] Afilias - DomainBank - Hal Lubsen - ICANN -indefensible?

Richard, Joanna and all,

  Richard, perhaps you should be passing this information along directly
to the necessary folks at DOC/NTIA for their attention.  I would suggest
that you do so separately.  I agree with you regarding Dan's behavior.
He has been particularly discouraging towards registrants in general, 
as has Marilyn Cade.  We as stakeholders/registrants can expect this
attitude to continue, but should not except it as reasonable.

  Keep up your fine work Richard!

Richard Henderson wrote:

>    Hi Joanna
>
> Happy New Year. The consequence of these ineligible applications /
> registrations (which were NOT allowed according to the
> Registry-Registrar Agreement, Appendix E) was that all the people all
> over the world who had legitimately applied and/or paid for the right
> to participate in the Landrush for these names lost out for no good
> reason except that DomainBank elected to breach the Registry rules.
>
> This was itself a substantial loss for some people (and yes, I
> personally lost out in relation to at least one of Lorenz's names).
> Put in the bigger context, you have to understand that some people
> lost $30000 + because of the Sunrise fiasco. They never expected to
> get ALL the names they applied for in Landrush, but they had a right
> to expect that Registrars and Registry would at least adhere to the
> Agreements themselves.
>
> In this specific case, William Lorenz of Strategic Domains appears to
> me to have been scammed. He was charged $15000 for a product that
> DomainBank must have known the Rules disallowed, and which could
> therefore never materialise.
>
> But the most serious harm, in my opinion, was the abuse of process by
> Registrar and Registry right at the heart of the .info set up.
>
> DomainBank charged $15000 to get false and ineligible applications
> registered. Registrars simply weren't allowed to apply for names
> without the mandatory TM data in four specified fields.
>
> Afilias went ahead and registered these 93 names (presumably also for
> a profit) even though the applications breached the rules of their own
> Agreement.
>
> The fact that Hal Lubsen had a long-term association with DomainBank,
> as well as being CEO of Afilias, makes the "rip-off" (as I perceive
> it) even more unpalatable.
>
> To me it is evidence that consumers were let down because (a) the
> Agreements themselves were flawed (b) the Agreements were broken (c)
> the Agreements were not enforced.
>
> Note also, that when Lorenz was made conscious of the harm that
> Landrush customers would suffer, he immediately requested that these
> registrations should be cancelled and made available in time for the
> bona fide Landrush applicants. He contacted Afilias and DomainBank a
> total of 23 times (I have the e-mails) pleading for them to cancel the
> names. These requests were not met. This was notwithstanding the fact
> that the ICANN-Registry Agreement empowered Afilias to carry out such
> deletions.
>
> The Lorenz case was just one case among many involving Afilias
> executives and staff and registrars belonging to the Afilias cartel. I
> encourage you to refer to the long thread of 143 posts on the Jeff
> Davies story at ICANNWatch to see the scope and extent of what
> occurred:
>
> http://ww
> .icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/24/144912&mode=thread&threshold=-1
>
> There were many cases of registrar and registry misconduct. For over
> 250 days Dan Halloran has hidden away and refused to respond on any of
> these or on the role of ICANN in relationship to its own Agreements,
> its accreditation of registrars, and its duty to oversee the fair
> distribution of the DNS to the general public.
>
> I would like to see a detailed investigation of these serious
> allegations.
>
> I also await the Registry Evaluation Reports which Afilias were
> obliged to submit under Appendix U of their ICANN-Registry Agreement.
>
> These Registry Reports should have provided vital data for the NewTLD
> Evaluation Process. Instead, they have never materialised. The
> Appendix U stated clearly that nearly all of these report details
> could be published by ICANN. The Reports were due in mostly 6 months
> ago, and in some cases 9 months ago.
>
> I have repeatedly asked Stuart Lynn to publish these Registry Reports.
> I asked him in May. I asked him in the Summer. I asked him in the
> Autumn. It is now 2003.
>
> He says, "ICANN has been busy and hasn't had time to put them online."
> Sorry, but copy-paste-FTP, and they could be up in half an hour or
> less. My 12 year old daughter runs her own website - she'll do it for
> you if you like!
>
> But more seriously: how can the various ICANN constituencies seriously
> engage in an informed participation, if central data is withheld? And
> isn't the Evaluation of the NewTLDs an important matter?
>
> There has been no attempt to defend or account for the abuse of
> process, and failure of process, that accompanied the .info roll-out.
> No accountability. No recognition that people suffered loss. No
> apology. Not even a response to many of these concerns (example: over
> 250 days since some of these concerns were expressed to Dan Halloran
> requesting a response and action. Outcome: total silence. Not even the
> courtesy of an acknowledgement, even when the mail was posted on
> IcannWatch, posted on the GA list, and re-posted to him several
> times.)
>
> In the context of such lack of responsiveness and accountability, it
> is small wonder that many people are dismayed that the ICANN Board has
> chosen to EXPEL the democratically-elected representatives of the At
> Large (User) community from the Board Room.
>
> Many questions are still unanswered.
>
> Richard Henderson
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Joanna Lane
>   To: Richard Henderson ; [email-masked]
>   Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 6:55 AM
>   Subject: RE: [GTLD Registries List] Afilias - DomainBank - Hal
> Lubsen - ICANN -indefensible?
>
>
>   Richard,
>   Have you suffered actual hardship as a direct result of losing one
> of these 93 names? If not, do you know anyone who applied for them and
> did not get them? How do you know these domain names have any value?
> Could it be that William Lorenz was simply scammed?
>   Regards,
>   Joanna
>
>
>    -----Original Message-----
>   From: [email-masked]
> [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Richard Henderson
>   Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 6:11 PM
>   To: [email-masked]
>   Subject: [GTLD Registries List] Afilias - DomainBank - Hal Lubsen -
> ICANN - indefensible?
>
>
>     I'm still awaiting an explanation of why Hal Lubsen (CEO Afilias)
> could justify the registrations granted for DomainBank (long term
> association with Hal Lubsen) in the case of 93 .info Sunrise
> applications for Strategic Domains (aka William Lorenz) where
> DomainBank breached the Registry-Registrar rules (Appendix E)
> requiring proper submission in the 4 mandatory data fields: Trademark
> name. Trademark Number. Trademark Date. Trademark Country.
>
>     DomainBank charged Lorenz $15000 to submit 93 ineligible
> applications with zero data in these mandatory Trademark datafields.
>
>     Afilias granted the registrations, even though the Registry
> Agreement Rules had been broken.
>
>     The applications were ineligible, and yet Afilias granted them,
> and DomainBank charged Lorenz $15000 for a product which could not
> materialise because DomainBank were not at liberty to apply for it.
>
>     Would ANYONE in the Registry community, or the ICANN community,
> explain and defend this breach of rules please?
>
>     It was just one, among a collection of many, breaches of the
> Agreement on the basis of which consumers did business.
>
>     I take the overwhelming silence on this matter as (effectively) an
> admission of guilt.
>
>     Richard Henderson
>
>
>

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:12:08 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] US Government approves SPAM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0172_01C2BB26.E78B1B80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Now everyone has the right to spam...

IRAQ SHUTS DOWN MAIL SERVERS TO BLOCK U.S. SPAM
Responding to an email spam campaign from the U.S. military,
the Iraqi government has shut down all Internet access and
the country's two mail servers.  U.S. messages apparently
urged dissent and encouraged military defections.
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2003/01/12/MN125083.D=
TL>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0172_01C2BB26.E78B1B80
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Now everyone has the right to =
spam...</FONT><BR><BR>IRAQ SHUTS=20
DOWN MAIL SERVERS TO BLOCK U.S. SPAM<BR>Responding to an email spam =
campaign=20
from the U.S. military,<BR>the Iraqi government has shut down all =
Internet=20
access and<BR>the country's two mail servers.&nbsp; U.S. messages=20
apparently<BR>urged dissent and encouraged military =
defections.<BR>&lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2003/01/12/MN1=
25083.DTL"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2003/01/12/MN=
125083.DTL</FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>&gt;</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0172_01C2BB26.E78B1B80--

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:09:48 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [GTLD Registries List] Afilias - DomainBank - Hal Lubsen - ICANN -indefensible?

Jeff

I agree that these details should be sent separately to various
destinations. That has, of course, already been done - and further business
will be carried out with regard to this.

I notice the ICANNWatch URL got broken in your post so... here it is again
in its context:

"The Lorenz case was just one case among many involving Afilias executives
and staff and registrars belonging to the Afilias cartel. I encourage you to
refer to the long thread of 143 posts on the Jeff Davies story at ICANNWatch
to see the scope and extent of what occurred:

http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/24/144912&mode=thread&thresho
ld=-1

There were many cases of registrar and registry misconduct. For over 250
days Dan Halloran has hidden away and refused to respond on any of these or
on the role of ICANN in relationship to its own Agreements, its
accreditation of registrars, and its duty to oversee the fair distribution
of the DNS to the general public.

I would like to see a detailed investigation of these serious allegations."

Richard Henderson

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1554
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