Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1553
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST          Sunday, January 12 2003          Volume 01 : Number 1553

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:54:44 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Why did the ga-full list just close?

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HelpI think all subscribers should have been e-mailed before the ga full =
list was closed

Richard Henderson

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<DIV>I think all subscribers should have been e-mailed before the ga =
full list=20
was closed</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Richard Henderson</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:46:20 +0100
From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Why did the ga-full list just close?

On 2003-01-11 22:54:44 -0000, Richard Henderson wrote:

>    I think all subscribers should have been e-mailed before the
>    ga full list was closed

I'm not sure whether the list itself has been closed.  It just seems
like there is no more ga-full web archve.

Anyway, let's see....

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Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.net/
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Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:37:42 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Marilyn and all former DNSO GA members,

  The information you seek has already been discussed, debated, or otherwise
provided on a number of occasions on this forum.  Perhaps a review of the
archives would be a good start for you to begin, Marilyn.
But to help you out a little bit for .FR see: http://www.nic.fr/english/tools/
and  http://annuaire.nic.fr  as well as  http://www.nic.fr/cgi-bin/whois
also for some documentation regulation see: http://www.nic.fr/english/internal-regulations.html

  For .DE see the following links to help you get started:
http://www.denic.de/index.en.html and for personal data
information see: http://www.denic.de/doc/personendaten.en.html
However this link seems to be contrary to the documentation
listed at:  http://www.denic.de/doc/rfc/index.en.html
which references: http://www.denic.de/doc/rfc/domain/rfc2541.en.html

  For some information on .UK see: http://www.nic.uk/rules/new-rules.html
and Whois see: http://www.nic.uk/whois.html .  It may also be
a good idea to review http://www.nic.uk/news/guides/reg5.html
as well...  Dispute resolution is for .UK info is here:
http://www.nic.uk/drs/mediation.html also see:
 http://www.nic.uk/ref/drs-procedure.html
Case law on disputes for .UK is here: http://www.nic.uk/news/legal/index.html
However this seems to be a bit out of date...  So again search the
DNSO GA forum archives as well as NYTIMES news archives
and perhaps the BBC news archives would bare some fruit as well...

  For .AU perhaps Dave would be a better resource.  However
I am sure that you yourself Marilyn can whip the web your self
for further info...  After all you are a Whois Task force member,
so get to work and show us your great abilities on your own
effort...  >;)

  Well Marilyn that should get you started and keep you busy for
some time...

Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:

> David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs do... in this area.  Do you know what Domainz does? Is there a way to find out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.? Perhaps there is learning which the gTLDs can take from the ccTLDs. Many ccTLDs have regisrtrations from other countries so have the postal delivery issues as well.

>
>
> I'd be happy to post any relevant and factual responses we might be able to get to the WHOIS TF list.
>
> Regards, Marilyn Cade
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:47 PM
> To: Vittorio Bertola
> Cc: [email-masked]; Cade,Marilyn S - LGA;
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
>
> On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:40 +0100, Vittorio Bertola
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:59 +1300, you wrote:
> >
> >>If the registrant is a legitimate user, then once their domain stops
> >>working they will eventually contact the registrar to get it fixed.
> >
> >The problem is that it might be too late - you might already be losing
> >valuable e-mail messages or website traffic. So even before putting
> >the domain on hold all efforts have to be made to contact the
> >registrant and fix the problem (and let alone the fact that one has
> >the right not to expose his/her identity to the whole world).
>
> The issue of should you be allowed to be anonymous is a slightly
> different debate.  For now the policy is you need correct data and the
> issue is how to mitigate potential loss of a domain and purchase by
> someone else (which is far worse).
>
> I agree putting on hold is not without consequences and there should
> be a minimum of three attempts to contact the registrant.
>
> DPF
> --
> E-mail: [email-masked]
> ICQ:    29964527
> MSN:    [email-masked]
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:20:32 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Hello,

- --- Jeff Williams <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders
> strong!)

Wow, 2K more "members/stakeholders", and they *still* don't own
INEgroup.com *chuckle* (Ross of Tucows has the .net). What are these
folks doing running around with those wooden stakes, by the way?!?!?!
We already have Buffy to slay vampires! ;)

What's a LLA, by the way? Besides Tim Burlee, are there any other known
INEGroup members who are "public"?

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.GlobalDomination.com/ <<-- Buffy's not a member, yet...
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:25:16 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Why did the ga-full list just close?

If you visit THIS page:
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaarchives.html

then you can see that the "list closed 1 Jan 2003"

Richard

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] Why did the ga-full list just close?

> On 2003-01-11 22:54:44 -0000, Richard Henderson wrote:
> 
> >    I think all subscribers should have been e-mailed before the
> >    ga full list was closed
> 
> I'm not sure whether the list itself has been closed.  It just seems
> like there is no more ga-full web archve.
> 
> Anyway, let's see....
> 
> -- 
> Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.net/
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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> 

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:43:13 +0100
From: "Dora Gerber" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Dear Marilyn and all,

FYI - this is how the CH and LI people do it:

http://www.switch.ch/id/terms/policy.html

Regards, Dora Gerber

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
To: "DPF" <[email-masked]>; "Vittorio Bertola" <[email-masked]>;
"Sabine van-almsick (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>;
<[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

> David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs
do... in this area.  Do you know what Domainz does? Is there a way to find
out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.?
Perhaps there is learning which the gTLDs can take from the ccTLDs. Many
ccTLDs have regisrtrations from other countries so have the postal delivery
issues as well.
>
> I'd be happy to post any relevant and factual responses we might be able
to get to the WHOIS TF list.
>
> Regards, Marilyn Cade
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:47 PM
> To: Vittorio Bertola
> Cc: [email-masked]; Cade,Marilyn S - LGA;
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
>
>
> On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:40 +0100, Vittorio Bertola
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:59 +1300, you wrote:
> >
> >>If the registrant is a legitimate user, then once their domain stops
> >>working they will eventually contact the registrar to get it fixed.
> >
> >The problem is that it might be too late - you might already be losing
> >valuable e-mail messages or website traffic. So even before putting
> >the domain on hold all efforts have to be made to contact the
> >registrant and fix the problem (and let alone the fact that one has
> >the right not to expose his/her identity to the whole world).
>
> The issue of should you be allowed to be anonymous is a slightly
> different debate.  For now the policy is you need correct data and the
> issue is how to mitigate potential loss of a domain and purchase by
> someone else (which is far worse).
>
> I agree putting on hold is not without consequences and there should
> be a minimum of three attempts to contact the registrant.
>
> DPF
> --
> E-mail: [email-masked]
> ICQ:    29964527
> MSN:    [email-masked]
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:31:49 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Afilias - DomainBank - Hal Lubsen - ICANN - indefensible?

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HelpI'm still awaiting an explanation of why Hal Lubsen (CEO Afilias) =
could justify the registrations granted for DomainBank (long term =
association with Hal Lubsen) in the case of 93 .info Sunrise =
applications for Strategic Domains (aka William Lorenz) where DomainBank =
breached the Registry-Registrar rules (Appendix E) requiring proper =
submission in the 4 mandatory TM data fields: Trademark name. Trademark =
Number. Trademark Date. Trademark Country.=20

DomainBank charged Lorenz $15000 to submit 93 ineligible applications =
with zero data in these mandatory Trademark datafields. The Agreement =
with Afilias clearly prohibited this.

Afilias granted the registrations, even though the Registry Agreement =
Rules had been broken.=20

The applications were ineligible, and yet Afilias granted them, and =
DomainBank charged Lorenz $15000 for a product which could not =
materialise because DomainBank were not at liberty to apply for it.=20

Would ANYONE in the Registry community, or the ICANN community, explain =
and defend this breach of rules please?=20

It was just one, among a collection of many, breaches of the Agreement =
on the basis of which consumers did business.=20

I take the overwhelming silence on this matter as (effectively) an =
admission of guilt.=20

Richard Henderson=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Help</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3Dfile://C:\WINDOWS\>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P>I'm still awaiting an explanation of why Hal Lubsen (CEO Afilias) =
could=20
justify the registrations granted for DomainBank (long term association =
with Hal=20
Lubsen) in the case of 93 .info Sunrise applications for Strategic =
Domains (aka=20
William Lorenz) where DomainBank breached the Registry-Registrar rules =
(Appendix=20
E) requiring proper submission in the 4 mandatory TM data fields: =
Trademark=20
name. Trademark Number. Trademark Date. Trademark Country. <BR>
<P>DomainBank charged Lorenz $15000 to submit 93 ineligible applications =
with=20
zero data in these mandatory Trademark datafields. The Agreement with =
Afilias=20
clearly prohibited this.<BR>
<P>Afilias granted the registrations, even though the Registry Agreement =
Rules=20
had been broken. <BR>
<P>The applications were ineligible, and yet Afilias granted them, and=20
DomainBank charged Lorenz $15000 for a product which could not =
materialise=20
because DomainBank were not at liberty to apply for it. <BR>
<P>Would ANYONE in the Registry community, or the ICANN community, =
explain and=20
defend this breach of rules please? <BR>
<P>It was just one, among a collection of many, breaches of the =
Agreement on the=20
basis of which consumers did business. <BR>
<P>I take the overwhelming silence on this matter as (effectively) an =
admission=20
of guilt.&nbsp;<BR></P>
<P>Richard Henderson <BR></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2BA1D.6ED27760--

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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:00:01 -0000
From: "Richard Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] The .info "abomination" - questions still unanswered

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Help

As well as the case of DomainBank and the ineligible submissions they =
made to Afilias (for $15000) there were many other cases of registrar =
and registry misconduct. For over 250 days Dan Halloran has hidden away =
and refused to respond on any of these or on the role of ICANN in =
relationship to its own Agreements, its accreditation of registrars, and =
its duty to oversee the fair distribution of the DNS to the general =
public.

For a detailed exposee of some of the matters of great concern (or as an =
introduction to the scope and scale of the abuse by some registrars and =
Afilias Board members in the .info roll-out) go to:

http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=3D02/12/24/144912&mode=3Dthread&=
threshold=3D-1

I would like to see a detailed investigation of these serious =
allegations.

I also await the Registry Evaluation Reports which Afilias were obliged =
to submit under Appendix U of their ICANN-Registry Agreement.

These Registry Reports should have provided vital data for the NewTLD =
Evaluation Process. Instead, they have never materialised. The Appendix =
U stated clearly that nearly all of these report details could be =
published by ICANN. The Reports were due in mostly 6 months ago, and in =
some cases 9 months ago.

I have repeatedly asked Stuart Lynn to publish these Registry Reports. I =
asked him in May. I asked him in the Summer. I asked him in the Autumn. =
It is now 2003.

He says, "ICANN has been busy and hasn't had time to put them online." =
Sorry, but copy-paste-FTP, and they could be up in half an hour or less. =
My 12 year old daughter runs her own website - she'll do it for you if =
you like!

But more seriously: how can the various ICANN constituencies seriously =
engage in an informed participation, if central data is withheld? And =
isn't the Evaluation of the NewTLDs an important matter?

There has been no attempt to defend or account for the abuse of process, =
and failure of process, that accompanied the .info roll-out. No =
accountability. No recognition that people suffered loss. No apology. =
Not even a response to many of these concerns (example: over 250 days =
since some of these concerns were expressed to Dan Halloran requesting a =
response and action. Outcome: total silence. Not even the courtesy of an =
acknowledgement, even when the mail was posted on IcannWatch, posted on =
the GA list, and re-posted to him several times.)

In the context of such lack of responsiveness and accountability, it is =
small wonder that many people are dismayed that the ICANN Board has =
chosen to EXPEL the democratically-elected representatives of the At =
Large (User) community from the Board Room.

Many questions are still unanswered.

Richard Henderson

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Help</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3Dfile://C:\WINDOWS\>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As well as the case of DomainBank and the ineligible submissions =
they made=20
to Afilias (for $15000) there were many other cases of registrar and =
registry=20
misconduct. For over 250 days Dan Halloran has hidden away and refused =
to=20
respond on any of these or on the role of ICANN in relationship to its =
own=20
Agreements, its accreditation of registrars, and its duty to oversee the =
fair=20
distribution of the DNS to the general public.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>For a detailed exposee of some of the matters of great concern (or =
as an=20
introduction to the scope and scale of the abuse by some registrars and =
Afilias=20
Board members in the .info roll-out) go to:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=3D02/12/24/144912&amp;mo=
de=3Dthread&amp;threshold=3D-1">http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=3D=
02/12/24/144912&amp;mode=3Dthread&amp;threshold=3D-1</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I would like to see a detailed investigation of these serious=20
allegations.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I also await the Registry Evaluation Reports which Afilias were =
obliged to=20
submit under Appendix U of their ICANN-Registry Agreement.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>These Registry Reports should have provided vital data for the =
NewTLD=20
Evaluation Process. Instead, they have never materialised. The Appendix =
U stated=20
clearly that nearly all of these report details could be published by =
ICANN. The=20
Reports were due in mostly 6 months ago, and in some cases 9 months =
ago.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have repeatedly asked Stuart Lynn to publish these Registry =
Reports. I=20
asked him in May. I asked him in the Summer. I asked him in the Autumn. =
It is=20
now 2003.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>He says, "ICANN has been busy and hasn't had time to put them =
online."=20
Sorry, but copy-paste-FTP, and they could be up in half an hour or less. =
My 12=20
year old daughter runs her own website - she'll do it for you if you =
like!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>But more seriously: how can the various ICANN constituencies =
seriously=20
engage in an informed participation, if central data is withheld? And =
isn't the=20
Evaluation of the NewTLDs an important matter?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There has been no attempt to defend or account for the abuse of =
process,=20
and failure of process, that accompanied the .info roll-out. No =
accountability.=20
No recognition that people suffered loss. No apology. Not even a =
response to=20
many of these concerns (example: over 250 days since some of these =
concerns were=20
expressed to Dan Halloran requesting a response and action. Outcome: =
total=20
silence. Not even the courtesy of an acknowledgement, even when the mail =
was=20
posted on IcannWatch, posted on the GA list, and re-posted to him =
several=20
times.)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In the context of such lack of responsiveness and accountability, =
it is=20
small wonder that many people are dismayed that the ICANN Board has =
chosen to=20
EXPEL the democratically-elected representatives of the At Large (User)=20
community from the Board Room.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Many questions are still unanswered.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Richard Henderson</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:36:33 +1300
From: DPF <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:25:48 -0500, "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA"
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs do... in this area.  
>Do you know what Domainz does? 

Domainz are no longer the registry and now just a registrar.  Policies
for .nz are (for those interested) at
http://www.dnc.org.nz/story/30037-35-1.html

The policies do place a requirement on registrants to have correct
whois data with an ultimate sanction of cancellation.  Specific
deadlines are not mandated but are at the discretion of the Domain
Name Commissioner.  So if for example there is just a wrong phone
number hasty action is unlikely to say the least but if someone has
registered under the name of Mickey Mouse then things would move
faster.

The policy is due to be reviewed in the next year or so and
consultation will occur with the internet community on this and other
issues.

>Is there a way to find out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such 
>as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.? 

One of the unfortunate things about the prolonged stand off between
ICANN and the ccTLDs is that most of the meetings has been focused on
political negotiations etc and less time on sharing information on
policies and practices.  Hopefully in the very near future this
situation will be remedied and then ccTLD ICANN meetings will be a
great forum for getting feedback on how for example large ccTLDs deal
with fake whois data.

In the interim the best way to find out would be to get someone with
access to the ccTLD mailing list to ask the question and seek replies
off list for collation.

DPF

- --
E-mail: [email-masked]
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MSN:    [email-masked]
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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 06:55:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Why did the ga-full list just close?

Richard,
I think perhaps if it is all closed down it may be better.
Life and business have a great way of working these things out.
e

> If you visit THIS page:
> http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaarchives.html
> 
> then you can see that the "list closed 1 Jan 2003"
> 
> Richard
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [ga] Why did the ga-full list just close?
> 
> 
>> On 2003-01-11 22:54:44 -0000, Richard Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> >    I think all subscribers should have been e-mailed before the ga
>> >    full list was closed
>> 
>> I'm not sure whether the list itself has been closed.  It just seems
>> like there is no more ga-full web archve.
>> 
>> Anyway, let's see....
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.net/
>> --
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>> 
> 
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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 06:46:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Dear Dora,
This is very good to read.
It is important that we look into multi-cultural applications and learn from 
them.
It is also important that we not interfere with that diversity.
But it is also important that we commit to what we believe is right and not 
just "throw it out there".
You are a great example of knowledge and I thank you for contribution.
eric

> Dear Marilyn and all,
> 
> FYI - this is how the CH and LI people do it:
> 
> http://www.switch.ch/id/terms/policy.html
> 
> Regards, Dora Gerber
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
> To: "DPF" <[email-masked]>; "Vittorio Bertola" <[email-masked]>;
> "Sabine van-almsick (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>;
> <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
> 
> 
>> David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what
>> ccTLDs
> do... in this area.  Do you know what Domainz does? Is there a way to
> find out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such as .de; .uk; .au; .fr;
> etc.? Perhaps there is learning which the gTLDs can take from the
> ccTLDs. Many ccTLDs have regisrtrations from other countries so have
> the postal delivery issues as well.
>>
>> I'd be happy to post any relevant and factual responses we might be
>> able
> to get to the WHOIS TF list.
>>
>> Regards, Marilyn Cade
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:47 PM
>> To: Vittorio Bertola
>> Cc: [email-masked]; Cade,Marilyn S - LGA;
>> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
>> Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:40 +0100, Vittorio Bertola
>> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:59 +1300, you wrote:
>> >
>> >>If the registrant is a legitimate user, then once their domain stops
>> >>working they will eventually contact the registrar to get it fixed.
>> >
>> >The problem is that it might be too late - you might already be
>> >losing valuable e-mail messages or website traffic. So even before
>> >putting the domain on hold all efforts have to be made to contact the
>> >registrant and fix the problem (and let alone the fact that one has
>> >the right not to expose his/her identity to the whole world).
>>
>> The issue of should you be allowed to be anonymous is a slightly
>> different debate.  For now the policy is you need correct data and the
>> issue is how to mitigate potential loss of a domain and purchase by
>> someone else (which is far worse).
>>
>> I agree putting on hold is not without consequences and there should
>> be a minimum of three attempts to contact the registrant.
>>
>> DPF
>> --
>> E-mail: [email-masked]
>> ICQ:    29964527
>> MSN:    [email-masked]
>> --
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>> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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>>
> 
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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:03:50 -0500
From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

Thanks, David, I appreciate your response and suggestions.

I was aware that Domainz was changing, but hadn't quite caught up to the timing. 

 Marilyn

- -----Original Message-----
From: DPF [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 5:37 AM
To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
Cc: Vittorio Bertola; Sabine van-almsick (E-mail); [email-masked];
[email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:25:48 -0500, "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA"
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>David, you are a great resource to help us find out more about what ccTLDs do... in this area.  
>Do you know what Domainz does? 

Domainz are no longer the registry and now just a registrar.  Policies
for .nz are (for those interested) at
http://www.dnc.org.nz/story/30037-35-1.html

The policies do place a requirement on registrants to have correct
whois data with an ultimate sanction of cancellation.  Specific
deadlines are not mandated but are at the discretion of the Domain
Name Commissioner.  So if for example there is just a wrong phone
number hasty action is unlikely to say the least but if someone has
registered under the name of Mickey Mouse then things would move
faster.

The policy is due to be reviewed in the next year or so and
consultation will occur with the internet community on this and other
issues.

>Is there a way to find out what some of the larger ccTLDs do? Such 
>as .de; .uk; .au; .fr; etc.? 

One of the unfortunate things about the prolonged stand off between
ICANN and the ccTLDs is that most of the meetings has been focused on
political negotiations etc and less time on sharing information on
policies and practices.  Hopefully in the very near future this
situation will be remedied and then ccTLD ICANN meetings will be a
great forum for getting feedback on how for example large ccTLDs deal
with fake whois data.

In the interim the best way to find out would be to get someone with
access to the ccTLD mailing list to ask the question and seek replies
off list for collation.

DPF

- --
E-mail: [email-masked]
ICQ:    29964527
MSN:    [email-masked]
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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:17:41 -0500
From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

The TF tried to address this issue by suggesting that a further examination of the 15 day policy be undertaken. That remains the intent of the TF.  The TF also took seriously and included comments by two TF members recommeing a lenient implementation of the 15 day policy. Further, the TF received some comments that in situations where actual harm to individuals through fraud, criminal action is occuring that a less than 15 day period may be needed.  The crux of their recommendation was that this issue needed further work, and that work needed to be done in the near term.

The NC recommended, adn the TF reopened the comment list from the time of the Amsterdam meeting until 1/9. I would assume that you submitted your comments to the open list. However, since I've read the list, I know that some concerned and interested individuals failed to take that small, easy to do, but significant step.

IF you missed that step, or overlooked it, or perhaps were just out of reach due to the series of holidays, etc.,  and you still want to submit a short, coherent, and focused comment, or want one of your previous postings elsewhere WHICH IS DIRECTLY RELEVANT to be included, I suggest that you write a short email, asking that, attaching the relevant posting. I will forward to the WHOIS TF.  

I suspect that Thomas is also a resource in providing that forwarding. 

Marilyn Cade

- -----Original Message-----
From: Vittorio Bertola [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:14 AM
To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
Cc: Joop Teernstra; Thomas Roessler; George Kirikos;
[email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] WHOIS accuracy, and name deletions

On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:28:40 -0500, you wrote:

>Joop, you are responding in a way which indicates that you don't want to have an interaction which can result in exchange between parties of good will. 

Knowing Joop, this might sometimes be true :-) and it's also true that
the 15 days provision is already policy, but nevertheless I think
that, for the same good will, the task force should recognize the
ample concern in the registrant community about enforcing that
timeframe in a hard way.

Note that I'm not talking just about individual registrants - the
company I used to work for had its .co.uk domain name put on hold
without notice because we had no way of checking or updating our
contact data, and they had no way of contacting us because the contact
data were out of date (well, e-mail was ok, but apparently they didn't
bother to use it - they just used the postal address to send the
invoice, and when it bounced, they disconnected the domain). And for
an e-commerce company, even one day of downtime might cause
million-dollar damages. (BTW, if I was a company whose domain is put
on hold due to WHOIS inaccuracies, I wouldn't wait a minute to sue my
registrar.)

More generally speaking, it's just a matter of ICANN choosing where it
wants to stand. If it wants to play the market regulator, it has to
stand half way between all parties. If it chooses positions that bring
advantage to some parties but are unreasonable and unacceptable to
many others, it simply (as it has happened in the past years) will
lose its role and credibility more and more. I think that all of us
who still accept to play a part in ICANN policy-making processes
should keep this concept well in mind.
- -- 
vb.            [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a] bertola.eu.org]<---
- -------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1553
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