Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1542
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Tuesday, December 31 2002         Volume 01 : Number 1542

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:52:26 +0100
From: "J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] whois: issues with uniformity

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On 19:35 27/12/02, Jeff Williams said:
>No, ICANN does not control the root yet.  DOC does.  As to the
>NS delegations for ccTLD's which refused to sign the
>ICANN/DOC Contract, DOC intervened in that situation after
>ICANN made the particular refusals.

Sorry, Jeff. Only you control the root.
You can get the root by many other people, with added value.
DOC only controls the USG root YOU accept to use.
jfc

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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:19:19 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] whois: issues with uniformity

Jefsey and al former DNSO GA members,

J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:

> On 19:35 27/12/02, Jeff Williams said:
> >No, ICANN does not control the root yet.  DOC does.  As to the
> >NS delegations for ccTLD's which refused to sign the
> >ICANN/DOC Contract, DOC intervened in that situation after
> >ICANN made the particular refusals.
>
> Sorry, Jeff. Only you control the root.
> You can get the root by many other people, with added value.
> DOC only controls the USG root YOU accept to use.
> jfc

  This idea is only partly true.  What matters is that still the greater

majority of stakeholders/users choose to use the UST/Legacy Root.
This is mostly because the majority of Stakeholders/users do not
know that their is and has been choices.  Most of them that could
know, wouldn't care either unless a case can be made as to why
they should care.  Hence Jefsey, why your idea in your statement,
discussed and debated a number of time on this, and other forums,
is only partly true.

  This again restated for I don't recall now how many times, begs
the demonstrated need or desire that if such choices are to become
viable from and ecommerce standpoint, that significant effort along
with a very significant amount of funding is necessary for such
and idea of choices to become wider understood and known.
Thus far only a few organizations, including INEGroup, have
put any significant funding in this direction, and that has not
been near sufficient...  Additional aid AND funds to market
such existing choices are sorely needed.  Recently Juno.com
has launched a indirect marketing campaign in the US on
cable and Broadcast media.  Netzero did so about a month
ago.  Both advertise "See ALL of the Internet" as their marketing
mantra phrase.  It works, but only goes so far..  New.net,
does not presently have that kind of marketing budget, nor
does Alternate or other smaller organizations that recognize
and desire to expand the Root structures that are available...

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:29:00 +0100
From: Vittorio Bertola <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] whois: issues with uniformity

On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:34:28 +0100, you wrote:

>Let's expand a typical "daily routine business". You receive a spam
>which advertises an email address in [email-masked]. You want to
>complain to the people at coldmail.com. It is very convenient to find
>an email address.

RFC822 mandates that postmaster@domain must exist and be read by a
person who is responsible for all e-mail activities for that domain -
which indeed include spamming. Why should you have to search for
another address?

Anyway, I agree that being able to contact the owner of a domain is a
good thing - so you could either mandate the publication of an e-mail
contact address for the domain, or have a redirection mechanism
through the registry/registrar (i.e. the e-mail address remains
private, but the registry/registrar offers you a web form through
which you can send an e-mail to the domain owner, without having to
know its e-mail address - however this would place additional costs on
the registries, so this should be examined more in deep). But this
does not require for your full name, postal address and phone number
to be exposed to the whole world.

>> breach of law, you can go to the police - they should have
>
>Do note that, of the typical situations I gave as example, only one is
>a (possible) breach of the law.

You should not be allowed to trace someone who is not breaking the
law. If someone wants to publish his address so that you can help him
in case of need - for example, if he misconfigurates his name servers
- - he could do it, but he should have the option to preserve his
privacy at the cost of losing your advice when, for example, you
notice that his domain can't receive e-mail due to DNS errors. (If he
is really using that domain, however, he will likely notice by himself
that he can't get e-mail before you do.)
- -- 
vb.            [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a] bertola.eu.org]<---
- -------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:22:44 +0100
From: "J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ga] Open call to join ICANNATLARGE.ORG

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On 13:28 28/12/02, Eric Dierker said:
>If this is not a 501c3 group then what is it?

What the hell is a 501c3 group?
Is that the same as a CI.1123.23(b) or a NTU.12-r ?
jfc

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:17:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Walter Schmidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ga] Open call to join  ICANNATLARGE.ORG

On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin wrote:

> On 13:28 28/12/02, Eric Dierker said:
> >If this is not a 501c3 group then what is it?
> What the hell is a 501c3 group? Is that the same as a CI.1123.23(b) or
> a NTU.12-r ? jfc

   ...since you asked

 TITLE 26 (the United States Internal Revenue Code, Title 26 of the U.S.
Code (26 USC) ),
 Subtitle A, 
 CHAPTER 1, 
 Subchapter F, 
 PART I, 
 Sec. 501. (Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.), 
 subsection (c): (List of exempt organizations), 
 (3): Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation,
organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific,
testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster
national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part
of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or
equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no
part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private
shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which
is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence
legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which
does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or
distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in
opposition to) any candidate for public office.

 --- REgards, [email-masked] Walter C. Schmidt, IT CPA  Blue(.) ---
 - -              Online since CompuServe's MicroNET           ^  --- 
 - -        Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Media Center Edition       - -
 ---                Associate Expert - Expert Zone                ---
 - -        http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/        ---
 - - 52 Ken          http://www.dorsai.org/~walts/         Sun 57 - -

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:34:48 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ga] Open call to joinICANNATLARGE.ORG

Yes sir, and each area has small variations that you can adapt to as you
go.
Non profits are not all that different throughout the world.
For instance the red cross operated in Somalia and Turkey, and Texas
As we have seen throughout these lists, the key is that the "group"
works on a viable charitable cause and takes in the majority of it's
money through donations rather than revenue.
e

(ICANN is in serious violation of such concepts)

"J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" wrote:

> On 13:28 28/12/02, Eric Dierker said:
> >If this is not a 501c3 group then what is it?
>
> What the hell is a 501c3 group?
> Is that the same as a CI.1123.23(b) or a NTU.12-r ?
> jfc
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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:36:40 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ga] Open call to join  ICANNATLARGE.ORG

Taxes - Gentlepeople - taxes.
e

Walter Schmidt wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin wrote:
>
> > On 13:28 28/12/02, Eric Dierker said:
> > >If this is not a 501c3 group then what is it?
> > What the hell is a 501c3 group? Is that the same as a CI.1123.23(b) or
> > a NTU.12-r ? jfc
>
>    ...since you asked
>
>  TITLE 26 (the United States Internal Revenue Code, Title 26 of the U.S.
> Code (26 USC) ),
>  Subtitle A,
>  CHAPTER 1,
>  Subchapter F,
>  PART I,
>  Sec. 501. (Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.),
>  subsection (c): (List of exempt organizations),
>  (3): Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation,
> organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific,
> testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster
> national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part
> of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or
> equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no
> part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private
> shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which
> is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence
> legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which
> does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or
> distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in
> opposition to) any candidate for public office.
>
>  --- REgards, [email-masked] Walter C. Schmidt, IT CPA  Blue(.) ---
>  - -              Online since CompuServe's MicroNET           ^  ---
>  - -        Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Media Center Edition       - -
>  ---                Associate Expert - Expert Zone                ---
>  - -        http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/        ---
>  - - 52 Ken          http://www.dorsai.org/~walts/         Sun 57 - -
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:34:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Walter Schmidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ga] Open call to join  ICANNATLARGE.ORG

On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin wrote:

> On 13:28 28/12/02, Eric Dierker said:
> >If this is not a 501c3 group then what is it?
> 
> What the hell is a 501c3 group? Is that the same as a CI.1123.23(b) or
> a NTU.12-r ? jfc

 p.s. and fwiw, ICANN is exempt from federal ("US") income tax as a
section 501(c)(3) organization.

   http://www.icann.org/financials/tax/us/irs-letter-grant-28aug00.htm

 --- REgards, [email-masked] Walter C. Schmidt, IT CPA  Blue(.) ---
 - -              Online since CompuServe's MicroNET           ^  --- 
 - -        Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Media Center Edition       - -
 ---                Associate Expert - Expert Zone                ---
 - -        http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/        ---
 - - 52 Ken          http://www.dorsai.org/~walts/         Sun 57 - -

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:48:37 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] whois: issues with uniformity

Vittorio and all former DNSO GA members,

Vittorio Bertola wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:34:28 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >Let's expand a typical "daily routine business". You receive a spam
> >which advertises an email address in [email-masked]. You want to
> >complain to the people at coldmail.com. It is very convenient to find
> >an email address.
>
> RFC822 mandates that postmaster@domain must exist and be read by a
> person who is responsible for all e-mail activities for that domain -
> which indeed include spamming. Why should you have to search for
> another address?

  Good point.  And again one that has been made time and time again
in various ways and forms..

>
>
> Anyway, I agree that being able to contact the owner of a domain is a
> good thing - so you could either mandate the publication of an e-mail
> contact address for the domain, or have a redirection mechanism
> through the registry/registrar (i.e. the e-mail address remains
> private, but the registry/registrar offers you a web form through
> which you can send an e-mail to the domain owner, without having to
> know its e-mail address - however this would place additional costs on
> the registries, so this should be examined more in deep). But this
> does not require for your full name, postal address and phone number
> to be exposed to the whole world.

  Your suggestion here is a bad idea because too may games can be
played with this method and will be.  Hence harassment of various sorts
as we have seen in the past from Afilias personnel for instance, will
ensue.  No, the personal e-mail address of the registrant/individual
is not needed as an Admin. address is already required in addition to
what you rightly outlined  above, to Postmaster E-Mail address.

>
>
> >> breach of law, you can go to the police - they should have
> >
> >Do note that, of the typical situations I gave as example, only one is
> >a (possible) breach of the law.
>
> You should not be allowed to trace someone who is not breaking the
> law. If someone wants to publish his address so that you can help him
> in case of need - for example, if he misconfigurates his name servers
> - he could do it, but he should have the option to preserve his
> privacy at the cost of losing your advice when, for example, you
> notice that his domain can't receive e-mail due to DNS errors. (If he
> is really using that domain, however, he will likely notice by himself
> that he can't get e-mail before you do.)
> --
> vb.            [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a] bertola.eu.org]<---
> -------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 18:51:13 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Whois Task force shananigans?

All former DNSO GA members, task force members and other interested
parties,

  Seems that some stakeholders/users have "Special" privileges or
a "Special" ability to post to the Whois TF list and others that have
been long term participants in DNSO issues do not.  Why is it that
Thomas Rossler whom is not a Whois Task force member (See
Whois TF member list below) able to post to the Whois task force
and others are not?
References from the Whois Task force:
 http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/nc-whois/Arc00/msg00783.html
 http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/nc-whois/Arc00/msg00797.html
  http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/nc-whois/Arc00/msg00798.html

  Now I have no problem with Thomas or any stakeholder/user
being able to post to this "Closed" list, but seems that such is
less than honest and aboveboard and should be open to any
interested party or stakeholder/user if it is open to one...

members are:

      "YJ Park (MINC)" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.
      "Sapiro, Miriam" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.
      "Axel Aus der Muhlen" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.
      "Oscar A. Robles Garay" <[email-masked]> has been added to
nc-whois.
      "Tony Harris" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.
      "Philip Sheppard" <[email-masked]> has been added to
nc-whois.
      "Marilyn Cade" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.
      "Paul Kane" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.
      "Danny Younger" <[email-masked]> has been added to nc-whois.

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1542
*************************