Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1532
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST         Thursday, December 19 2002         Volume 01 : Number 1532

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:19:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] good bye from GA

Well I guess we have learned something from those profusing their great 
accomplishment of killing the GA.
eric

> Not much, if anything, that they, or anyone else, could have done.
> 
> The staff and BoD do whatever they want, regardless of consensus,
> protocol or whether it is the right thing. It is toward them, where you
> should direct your criticism and discomfort.
> 
> 
> 
> Wednesday, December 18, 2002, 5:49:11 AM, [email-masked]
> <[email-masked]> wrote: ehtc> This is the biggest bunch of bunk I have
> ever read.
> ehtc> I have not read one word or heard of one word where either of
> these two ehtc> men fought for the existence of the GA.
> ehtc> They are the chairs and yet just handed over the organization?
> ehtc> I wonder who is paying who?
> ehtc> e
> 
> ehtc> Philip Sheppard wrote:
> 
>>> Thomas, Alexandermany thanks to you both for a job well done.Thomas
>>> as chair you have combined intelligence with tolerance.Alex as
>>> alternate chair your have shown great powers of analysis and a gift
>>> to explain complexity - your informal charts are an example of good
>>> communication from which we have all benefited.You have brought
>>> credit to yourselves and to the principle of a general assembly
>>> itself.Well done.Philip
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA     Internet Concepts, Inc.
> [email-masked]         http://www.inetconcepts.net
> PGP Key ID: 04C99A55              (972) 788-2364  Fax: (972) 788-5049
> Providing Internet Solutions Worldwide - An eDataWeb Affiliate
> ----
> 
> --
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:12:53 +0100 (CET)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Another Xmas Card

Surely I must, in the spirit of Xmas card sending, add my voice to all
those who thanked the last two chairs of the GA. Thanks for trying to keep
up something of the original spirit of 1998. It was a battle lost some
time ago, but still, as we say in Dutch: If you do not shoot at all, you
will certainly miss.

I hope that the list will transition (yeah) into something like the old
[email-masked] (later @netsol.com) with more focus on domain
policy at large and less on Icannichtkeiten, since these seem to lose
relevance (at least for me) by the day.

Good luck to us all.

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:25:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] ... so long and thanks for all the fish ... and i told you so

Those of you who have followed my post for the last five years know I have
always considered the DNSO, GA and ICANN a complete waste of time.  Which
is why I take such pleasure in telling you all "I told you so ...." ;)

Non of you outsiders ever had a place in the ICANN scheme of things and as
we bury the GA I can only hope you all take your knowledge and see if
something good can come from your collective failures and hopes.

And so we bury the GA - ICANN's last hope of survival.  Thank .GOD it's
finally dead.  Good riddence.

Cheers
Joe Baptista

- --
Planet Communications & Computing Facility
a division of The dot.GOD Registry, Limited

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:44:59 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] Re:  Good bye

As of Tue 10 December 2002, 623 persons were registered in the DNSO GA voting 
registry.

As of today, only those that belong to entrenched special interest groups may 
express their views by way of a vote.  As of today, only those that suck up 
to ICANN management may elect their own leadership.  As of today, the right 
to quantify the sentiment of the General Public through the voting process 
within an ICANN Supporting Organization no longer exists.

Lest we forget, this is the price we paid for exercising our right to vote.  
It is the direct consequence of calling for a re-bid of the ICANN contracts.  
ICANN tolerates no dissent, and ICANN never once consulted with the 
membership of the General Assembly before deciding to write it out of 
existence.   Like the At-Large, members of the General Assembly are not 
viewed as "essential stakeholders", they are only viewed as a hotbed of 
critics to be silenced, a union to be busted so that the Cartel may thrive 
without "distractions".  

For now, the new "efficient" ICANN will attempt to manage a public trust, but 
it will never gain the trust of the public.  
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:57:49 -0600
From: Andy Gardner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re:  Good bye

At 1:44 PM -0500 12/18/02, [email-masked] wrote:
>As of Tue 10 December 2002, 623 persons were registered in the DNSO GA voting
>registry.
>
>As of today, only those that belong to entrenched special interest groups may
>express their views by way of a vote.  As of today, only those that suck up
>to ICANN management may elect their own leadership.  As of today, the right
>to quantify the sentiment of the General Public through the voting process
>within an ICANN Supporting Organization no longer exists.
>
>Lest we forget, this is the price we paid for exercising our right to vote.
>It is the direct consequence of calling for a re-bid of the ICANN contracts.
>ICANN tolerates no dissent, and ICANN never once consulted with the
>membership of the General Assembly before deciding to write it out of
>existence.   Like the At-Large, members of the General Assembly are not
>viewed as "essential stakeholders", they are only viewed as a hotbed of
>critics to be silenced, a union to be busted so that the Cartel may thrive
>without "distractions".
>
>For now, the new "efficient" ICANN will attempt to manage a public trust, but
>it will never gain the trust of the public.

What he said.

Time to get Rage Against the Machine to do a song and video about this
whole sorry mess.

- -- 
Andrew P. Gardner
barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:36:06 -0500
From: "Miriam Sapiro" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] good bye

Dear Thomas & Alexander -

You've done a terrific job (on WHOIS as well as the GA itself). I'm glad
ICANN is not losing you two as well as the GA!

Here's to looking ahead - and hoping we'll have the chance to work together
on new task forces and working groups.

Best, Miriam

- ---------
Miriam Sapiro
Principal
Summit Strategies International, LLC

Tel:     (202) 362-1909
Email: [email-masked]
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Roessler" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>; "Glen de Saint Gery" <[email-masked]>; "Elisabeth
PORTENEUVE" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:33 AM
Subject: [ga] good bye

> At some point of time between 9:10 and 9:40 a.m. Amsterdam time on
> Sunday, the DNSO ceased to be (and will, perhaps not unlike a
> phoenix from the ashes, become the GNSO). Likewise, the DNSO GA has
> ceased to be as an /official/ part of the ICANN structure.
> Consequently, we have ceased to be its Chair and Alternate Chair --
> we were elected for 2002 anyhow, and any concern that we might
> become GA-Chair-Squatters is unfounded: This is our farewell
> message. :)
>
> But although the GA loses the formal role it has had, it will not
> vanish into thin air and there is no reason to unsubscribe: This
> list will continue its informal but important role as a forum for
> information and discussion about DNS and ICANN issues, and we hope
> that people from the ICANN Board, the SO Councils and the GNSO
> Constituencies will stay tuned. Earlier, we called for volunteers to
> help our own transition. This GA Transition Team will help to ensure
> that the GA remains an open, but rules-based list regardless whether
> it is run under the formal custodianship of the DNSO, GNSO or
> perhaps the ALAC in the end.
>
> 2002 was a turbulent year, and this was certainly reflected in the
> GA. We have to thank a great number of you for your participation,
> assistance and encouragement. We owe particular thanks to the DNSO
> Secretariat for the great cooperation -- merci Glen, and merci
> Elisabeth! We also would like to thank the GA Representatives for
> the good job they did on the Task Forces. Finally, thanks to the
> volunteers (Abel and Ross) joining us on the Transition Team.
>
> When we say farewell, we're of course not really going away -- and
> we're quite sure that you, the GA participants, will stay around,
> too. We wish you all Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!
>
>     Thomas Roessler (former GA Chair)
>     Alexander Svensson (former GA Alternate Chair)
>
> --
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:34:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re:  Good bye

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 [email-masked] wrote:

> As of Tue 10 December 2002, 623 persons were registered in the DNSO GA voting
> registry.
>
> As of today, only those that belong to entrenched special interest groups may
> express their views by way of a vote.  As of today, only those that suck up
> to ICANN management may elect their own leadership.  As of today, the right
> to quantify the sentiment of the General Public through the voting process
> within an ICANN Supporting Organization no longer exists.

In my opinion it never existed.

> Lest we forget, this is the price we paid for exercising our right to vote.
> It is the direct consequence of calling for a re-bid of the ICANN contracts.
> ICANN tolerates no dissent, and ICANN never once consulted with the
> membership of the General Assembly before deciding to write it out of
> existence.   Like the At-Large, members of the General Assembly are not
> viewed as "essential stakeholders", they are only viewed as a hotbed of
> critics to be silenced, a union to be busted so that the Cartel may thrive
> without "distractions".
>
> For now, the new "efficient" ICANN will attempt to manage a public trust, but
> it will never gain the trust of the public.

Well said.  In fact that's all the GA was - the last voice of dissent.  At
best an educational forum.  But lets not forget that this happened before.
NetSol/VeriSign shut down the orginal domain-policy list on which so many
depended.  No one said a word and I expect the same of this.

And so I pack my bags and it's off down the yellow brick road to the other
side of the internet universe http://www.tlda.net/ .

regards
joe

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:16:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Elisabeth Porteneuve <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [council] good bye

Dear Thomas and Alexander,

Let me complete my thanks to you for excellent work
with thanks to all other colleagues:

1. To former GA Chairs and Alternate:
    Roberto Gaetano and Harald Alvestrand,
    Danny Younger and Patrick Corliss,

   and to all GA Members for their participation in the DNSO,
   a forum open to everybody:
   * As of Tue 10 December 2002, 623 persons are registered
     in the DNSO GA voting registry, cf.
     http://www.dnso.org/statistics/dnsostatistics.html
   * As of Sun 15 December 2002, 1046 different e-mail addresses
     are subscribing to GA lists (328 in ga or ga-full or ga-digest
     and 889 in [email-masked]), cf.
     http://www.dnso.org/statistics/dnsostatistics.html
     http://www.dnso.org/statistics/tab-2002121506.html
   Last not the least - many ccTLD members are on the DNSO lists,
   some are or were active participants.

2. To all Council members since origin, which names are kept
   in pages of each constituency:
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/business/business.html
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/gtld/gtld.html
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/ip/ip.html
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/ispcp/ispcp.html
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/ncdnh/ncdnh.html
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/registrars/registrars.html
     http://www.dnso.org/constituency/cctld/cctld.html

   54 different persons were members to the DNSO Names Council:
      * 18 North America
      *  7 Latin America and Caribbeans
      * 16 Europe
      * 11 Asia and Pacific
      *  2 Africa
   Their names are listed below.

3. To the DNSO elected 3 ICANN Board Directors:
     Alejandro Pisanty, elected in 1999, re-elected in 2002
     Amadeu Abril i Abril, elected in 1999, re-elected in 2001
     Jonathan Cohen, elected in 1999, re-elected in 2000

4. To Glen de St Gery and AFNIC staff providing DNSO Secretariat
   services.

With my best regards to all,
Elisabeth Porteneuve
- --

A. A summary of 3 years of the DNSO, published on 25 May 2002 is at:
   http://www.dnso.org/secretariat/2002.DNSO-3years.html

B. The DNSO Names Council members, May 1999 to December 2002:
Business:
    Europe (.es) - Javier Sola [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Jon Englund [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Theresa Swinehart [email-masked]
    Europe (.uk) - Philip Sheppard [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.jp) - Masanobu Katoh [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.nz) - Grant Forsyth [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Marilyn Cade [email-masked]
gTLD Registries:
    NorthA (.us) - Don Telage [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - David R. Johnson [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Phil Sbarbaro [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Roger Cochetti [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.au) - Richard Tindal [email-masked]
    Europe (.se) - Cary Karp [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.nz) - Jordyn Buchanan [email-masked]
ISPCP:
    Europe (.de) - Michael Schneider [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.jp) - Hirofumi Hotta [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.ar) - Antonio Harris [email-masked]
    Europe (.uk) - Tony Holmes [email-masked]
    NorthAm (.us) - Greg Ruth [email-masked]
NCDNH:
    AsiaPac (.kr) - Youn Jung Park [email-masked]
    NorthAm (.us) - Kathryn Kleiman [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.fr) - Raul Echeberria [email-masked]
    Africa (.mr) - Zakaria Amar [email-masked]
    Europe (.fr) - Dany Vandromme [email-masked]
    NorthAm (.us) - Milton Mueller [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.pa) - Nilda Vany Martinez Grajales [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.kr) - Eung Hwi Chun [email-masked]
    NorthAm (.us) - Harold Feld [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.pe) - Erick Iriarte [email-masked]
Registrars:
    Europe (.es) - Amadeu Abril i Abril [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.jp) - Richard Lindsay [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Ken Stubbs [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.au) - Erica Roberts [email-masked]
    Europe (.uk) - Paul Kane [email-masked]
    Europe (.de) - Philipp Grabensee [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.au) - Bruce Tonkin [email-masked]
Intellectual Property:
    NorthA (.ca) - Jonathan Cohen [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - Caroline Chicoine [email-masked]
    Europe (.be) - Ted Shapiro [email-masked]
    NorthA (.ca) - Victoria Carrington [email-masked]
    Europe (.de) - Axel Aus der Muhlen [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.cl) - Guillermo Carey [email-masked]
    Europe (.fr) - Laurence Djolakian [email-masked]
    NorthA (.us) - J. Scott Evans [email-masked]
    AsiaPac (.il) - Ellen Shankman [email-masked]
ccTLD Registries:
    Africa (.gh) - Nii Quaynor [email-masked]
    Europe (centr) - Fay Howard [email-masked]
    NorthAm (.us) - Bill Semich [email-masked]
    Europe (.ie) - Dennis Jennings [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.cl) - Patricio Poblete [email-masked]
    Europe (.gg) - Nigel Roberts [email-masked]
    NorthA (.vi) - Peter de Blanc [email-masked]
    Europe (.fr) - Elisabeth Porteneuve [email-masked]
    LatinAC (.mx) - Oscar Alejandro Robles Garay [email-masked]
    On 26 June 2002 Peter de Blanc, the ccTLD Manager of .vi passed away, 
    cf. http://www.ccwhois.org/inmemoriam

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:11:17 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] good bye

Thomas and all assembly members,or now former members?,

  It is a terrible shame and sham that ICANN has yet again brooken
it's agreements and decided to impose the GNSO without a forum
by which issues acan "Officially" be discussed, debated and shared
amongst the stakeholders/users such as the DNSO GA has been.

Thomas Roessler wrote:

> At some point of time between 9:10 and 9:40 a.m. Amsterdam time on
> Sunday, the DNSO ceased to be (and will, perhaps not unlike a
> phoenix from the ashes, become the GNSO). Likewise, the DNSO GA has
> ceased to be as an /official/ part of the ICANN structure.
> Consequently, we have ceased to be its Chair and Alternate Chair --
> we were elected for 2002 anyhow, and any concern that we might
> become GA-Chair-Squatters is unfounded: This is our farewell
> message. :)
>
> But although the GA loses the formal role it has had, it will not
> vanish into thin air and there is no reason to unsubscribe: This
> list will continue its informal but important role as a forum for
> information and discussion about DNS and ICANN issues, and we hope
> that people from the ICANN Board, the SO Councils and the GNSO
> Constituencies will stay tuned. Earlier, we called for volunteers to
> help our own transition. This GA Transition Team will help to ensure
> that the GA remains an open, but rules-based list regardless whether
> it is run under the formal custodianship of the DNSO, GNSO or
> perhaps the ALAC in the end.
>
> 2002 was a turbulent year, and this was certainly reflected in the
> GA. We have to thank a great number of you for your participation,
> assistance and encouragement. We owe particular thanks to the DNSO
> Secretariat for the great cooperation -- merci Glen, and merci
> Elisabeth! We also would like to thank the GA Representatives for
> the good job they did on the Task Forces. Finally, thanks to the
> volunteers (Abel and Ross) joining us on the Transition Team.
>
> When we say farewell, we're of course not really going away -- and
> we're quite sure that you, the GA participants, will stay around,
> too. We wish you all Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!
>
>     Thomas Roessler (former GA Chair)
>     Alexander Svensson (former GA Alternate Chair)
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:19:52 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] good bye from GA - Thank you for your honesty Don and Eric...

Don, Eric and all former assembly members,

  I must add my agreement and the agreement of a number of our members
that have contacted me today.  Thomas and Alex knew far in advance
that they were to preside and aid in dismantling the GA as was Vint
Cerf's desire...  Indeed Don, you are quite correct and I admire your
blunt honesty also in speaking up so boldly and honestly as well.  Well done!

  I am only saddened and disgusted in others on this swan song for the
DNSO GA in their subdued but obvious glee in it's demise...

Don Brown wrote:

> Not much, if anything, that they, or anyone else, could have done.
>
> The staff and BoD do whatever they want, regardless of consensus,
> protocol or whether it is the right thing. It is toward them, where
> you should direct your criticism and discomfort.
>
> Wednesday, December 18, 2002, 5:49:11 AM, [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:
> ehtc> This is the biggest bunch of bunk I have ever read.
> ehtc> I have not read one word or heard of one word where either of these two
> ehtc> men fought for the existence of the GA.
> ehtc> They are the chairs and yet just handed over the organization?
> ehtc> I wonder who is paying who?
> ehtc> e
>
> ehtc> Philip Sheppard wrote:
>
> >> Thomas, Alexandermany thanks to you both for a job well done.Thomas as
> >> chair you have combined intelligence with tolerance.Alex as alternate
> >> chair your have shown great powers of analysis and a gift to explain
> >> complexity - your informal charts are an example of good communication
> >> from which we have all benefited.You have brought credit to yourselves
> >> and to the principle of a general assembly itself.Well done.Philip
>
> ----
> Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA     Internet Concepts, Inc.
> [email-masked]         http://www.inetconcepts.net
> PGP Key ID: 04C99A55              (972) 788-2364  Fax: (972) 788-5049
> Providing Internet Solutions Worldwide - An eDataWeb Affiliate
> ----
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:03:45 -0500
From: "John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] good bye

Will the last public participant in the ICANN process please turn out the
lights when you leave?

Thank you.

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------------------------------

End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1532
*************************