Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1503
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST          Sunday, November 10 2002          Volume 01 : Number 1503

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:35:10 -0800
From: Bret Fausett <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Danny, a "listen-only" recording is available within an hour or two of the
time the meeting adjourns.

      -- Bret

[email-masked] wrote:
> Bruce,
> 
> The current ICANN Bylaws state:  "Except where determined by a majority vote
> of members of the NC present that a closed session is appropriate, meetings
> shall be open to physical or electronic attendance by all interested
> persons."  I am interested in exercising my right to electronic attendance at
> the upcoming Names Council session.  Please advise if listen-only ports will
> be made available to the community in compliance with these bylaws.
> 
> P.S. You will also note that the proposed bylaws also invoke a virtually
> identical clause:  "Except where determined by a majority vote of members of
> the GNSO Council present that a closed session is appropriate, meetings shall
> be open to physical or electronic attendance by all interested persons."
> --
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:04:47 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Brett,

I am not interested in listening to the meeting only after it adjourns.  I 
want to exercise my rights under the bylaws to listen to the meeting while it 
is in progress.  Do you seek to deny me my rights?
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Date: 08 Nov 2002 10:24:37 -0800
From: Bret Fausett <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

On Fri, 2002-11-08 at 10:04, [email-masked] wrote:
> Brett,
> I am not interested in listening to the meeting only after it adjourns.  I 
> want to exercise my rights under the bylaws to listen to the meeting while it 
> is in progress.  Do you seek to deny me my rights?

Why, Danny? Why make the NC go to the added expense of making telephone
bridge ports available for a non-participatory meeting when you can
listen to the entirety of the meeting within an hour after it adjourns?
The Constituency dues structure is already so high that it thwarts
participation, so why needlessly add to the expense?

Personally, I'd take the view that the MP3 recording satisfies the NC's
obligation to you, but why force the issue. I don't see how this helps
you participate in the work of the DNSO.

          -- Bret
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:24:38 -0800
From: "Asaad Y. Alnajjar, P.E.  -  Millennium Inc." <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] 2nd Transmit - MINC

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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2nd Transmit

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Asaad Y. Alnajjar - Millennium Inc.=20
To: [email-masked]=20
Cc: [email-masked] ; [email-masked] ; [email-masked]=20
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: Establishement of a panel of International Observers=20

Dear Mr. Fattal

Congratulations on your MINC Board appointment. I do believe that it is =
your duty now as a MINC officer to clean and mend the damage that took =
place to MINC as a whole and to get MINC's legitimacy back online prior =
to your AINC work (specially AINC members do represent MINC's Arabic =
working group).=20

Now, I as a MINC founding member and for the sake of legitimacy as you =
always stated and as I have discussed with you, I do hereby ask you to =
have the same intended international observers do the following for MINC =
immediately without any further delays and PRIOR to any AINC work or so =
the so called MINC IDN Testing:

A) Investigate MINC's elections of 9/2001 and 9/2002
B) Investigate Dr. TinWee refusal to make the ballots public
C) Investigate MINC's Board refusal to make the accounting public
D) Clarify the relationship of all the Board Members to the technology =
providers
E) Investigate MINC Board actions from Jan. 2001 and up-to-date
F) Other tasks to be discussed directly with the panel

Now back to your AINC investigation, please keep in mind you have not =
proven to us yet with any solid facts yet any wrong doing in AINC =
elections and appointments beyond your personal fact findings or Dr. =
TinWees alegations. For the sake of legitimacy you do need to finish =
your fact findings PRIOR to giving us your verdicts and calling =
positions void and so forth.
As I have always told you, our elections have been within the bounds of =
the constitution and its amendments and all the executive council =
members actions has been within its bounds.

With all my best wishes,

Asaad Alnajjar
CEO Millennium Inc.  ( Home of the Arabic Domain )
AINC/MINC Founder

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2><STRONG>2nd=20
Transmit</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=[email-masked] href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Asaad =
Y. Alnajjar=20
- - Millennium Inc.</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> ; <A=20
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> ; <A=20
title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 01, 2002 2:16 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Establishement of a panel of International =
Observers=20
</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>Dear Mr. =
Fattal</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>Congratulations on =
your MINC=20
Board appointment. <FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>I do =
believe that=20
it is your duty now as a MINC officer to clean and mend the damage that =
took=20
place to MINC as a whole and to get MINC's legitimacy back online prior =
to your=20
AINC work (specially AINC members do represent MINC's Arabic working =
group).=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>Now, I as a MINC =
founding member=20
and for the sake of legitimacy as you always stated and as I have =
discussed with=20
you, I do hereby ask you to have the same intended international =
observers do=20
the following for MINC immediately without any further delays and PRIOR =
to any=20
AINC work or so the so called MINC IDN Testing:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>A)&nbsp;Investigate =
MINC's=20
elections of 9/2001 and 9/2002</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>B) Investigate Dr. =
TinWee=20
refusal to make the ballots public</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>C) Investigate =
MINC's Board=20
refusal to make the accounting public</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>D) Clarify the =
relationship of=20
all the Board Members to the technology providers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>E) Investigate MINC =
Board=20
actions from Jan. 2001 and up-to-date</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>F) Other tasks to be =
discussed=20
directly with the panel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>Now back to your =
AINC=20
investigation, please keep in mind you have not proven to us yet with =
any solid=20
facts yet any wrong doing in AINC elections and appointments beyond your =

personal fact findings or Dr. TinWees alegations. For the sake of =
legitimacy you=20
do need to finish your fact findings PRIOR to giving us your verdicts =
and=20
calling positions void and so forth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>As I have always =
told you, our=20
elections have been within the bounds of the constitution and its =
amendments and=20
all the executive council members actions has been within its=20
bounds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>With all my best=20
wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#800080>Asaad =
Alnajjar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080>CEO Millennium Inc.&nbsp; ( Home of the =
Arabic Domain=20
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080>AINC/MINC Founder</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C28711.0A9536A0--

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:50:38 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: 3:127 EU

Jim and all,

  Yes I am sorry to read of Danny's lack of understanding your very
well represented information.  That's unfortunate.  However if
he doesn't wish to read it, I would suggest that you go ahead
and remove Danny from your contact list anyway.

Jim Fleming wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: 3:127 EU
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > I can no longer tolerate your inane and incoherent babbling.  Please remove
> > me from your contact list.
> >
> >
>
> Danny,
>
> Many things are changing. It may be hard for you to keep up.
>
> Also, not everything the At Large may want may make sense to other people...
> This may be what your At Large wants...
> 2:12 USES
> 2:12 USE - United States of Europe
>
> http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg10/publications/brochures/docu/10lecons/txt_en.html
> "Until it crystallised into a political concept and became the long-term goal of the Memberof the European Community, the European
> ideal was unknown to all but philosophers and visionaries. The notion of a United States of Europe was part of a humanist-pacifist
> dream which was shattered by the conflicts which brought so much destruction to the European continent in the first half of this
> century."
>
> ...others may prefer .EU...

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:04:26 -0500
From: "Steve Crocker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] RE: 3:127 EU

This would be a good time to remove me from this list as well.

Thanks,

Steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:51 PM
> To: General Assembly of the DNSO
> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; 
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; 
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]; 
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: 3:127 EU
> 
> 
> Jim and all,
> 
>   Yes I am sorry to read of Danny's lack of understanding 
> your very well represented information.  That's unfortunate.  
> However if he doesn't wish to read it, I would suggest that 
> you go ahead and remove Danny from your contact list anyway.
> 
> Jim Fleming wrote:
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[email-masked]>
> > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: 3:127 EU
> >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > I can no longer tolerate your inane and incoherent 
> babbling.  Please 
> > > remove me from your contact list.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Danny,
> >
> > Many things are changing. It may be hard for you to keep up.
> >
> > Also, not everything the At Large may want may make sense to other 
> > people... This may be what your At Large wants... 2:12 USES
> > 2:12 USE - United States of Europe
> >
> > 
> http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg10/publications/br>
ochures/docu/10lecons/tx
> > t_en.html
> > "Until it crystallised into a political concept and became 
> the long-term goal of the Memberof the European Community, 
> the European
> > ideal was unknown to all but philosophers and visionaries. 
> The notion of a United States of Europe was part of a 
> humanist-pacifist
> > dream which was shattered by the conflicts which brought so 
> much destruction to the European continent in the first half of this
> > century."
> >
> > ...others may prefer .EU...
> 
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders 
> strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA 
> Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. 
> E-Mail [email-masked] Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 
> 972-244-3801
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> 
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:06:26 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Brett,

You are not at liberty to abrogate my rights under the bylaws simply because 
there is a cost factor to providing for my rights to be honored.  By your 
logic we could dispense with all live webcasts of the ICANN Public Forum 
sessions and treat the community only to a recording after the meetings had 
already adjourned.  I don't accept that argument as having any validity.  The 
constituencies were well aware of their financial obligation to allow for 
electronic attendance at Names Council sessions when they committed 
themselves to membership in the DNSO.  If you don't like the bylaws, change 
them... but until they are amended you have an obligation to honor the bylaws 
(whether you personally like it or not).
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:06:21 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Bret and all assembly members,

Bret Fausett wrote:

> On Fri, 2002-11-08 at 10:04, [email-masked] wrote:
> > Brett,
> > I am not interested in listening to the meeting only after it adjourns.  I
> > want to exercise my rights under the bylaws to listen to the meeting while it
> > is in progress.  Do you seek to deny me my rights?
>
> Why, Danny? Why make the NC go to the added expense of making telephone
> bridge ports available for a non-participatory meeting when you can
> listen to the entirety of the meeting within an hour after it adjourns?

  First of all there is not expense involved as such ports are and have
been available to ICANN at not cost on a number of occasions, this
would include the NC as well.  Secondly, Danny is quite right,
as to transparency and openness.

>
> The Constituency dues structure is already so high that it thwarts
> participation, so why needlessly add to the expense?

  See above.  There is not need for such and expense as such
service for these types of services are available at no cost...

>
>
> Personally, I'd take the view that the MP3 recording satisfies the NC's
> obligation to you, but why force the issue. I don't see how this helps
> you participate in the work of the DNSO.

  In fact Bret the converse is true as Danny rightly contends.  After the
fact listening ports is not participation.

>
>
>           -- Bret
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:28:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Karl Auerbach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

On 8 Nov 2002, Bret Fausett wrote:

> Why, Danny? Why make the NC go to the added expense of making telephone
> bridge ports available for a non-participatory meeting when you can
> listen to the entirety of the meeting within an hour after it adjourns?

While that does make sense, the rules that Danny cited use the word 
"attendance" - which to my mind tends to mean at the time the meeting is 
actually in progress.

There is value in real-time listening - I know that when I'm up there at
the ICANN meetings that I'm in receipt of a continuous stream of items
that comment, often quite sagely, on the matter and discussion in
progress.

I would suggest that open phone meetings are a lesser-cost option than
open physical meetings.  It seems that by selecting a lesser-cost option
the DNSO becomes obligated to take reasonable steps to preserve those
positive characteristics that are lost when that lesser-cost option is
used.

In addition, because the DNSO is still as much a part of ICANN as is
ICANN's own "staff" who seem to relish spending tens of thousands of
dollars on items of questionable value, the full entity of ICANN ought to
be bearing the expense rather than merely helping the DNSO get
reduced-rate phone services.

		--karl--

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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:27:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick Wesson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

danny,

you are being unreasonable, which lessens any impact you wish to achieve
in your posts to this list.

the more you persue this the less anyone will listen to you on other
topics.

- -rick

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 [email-masked] wrote:

> Brett,
>
> You are not at liberty to abrogate my rights under the bylaws simply because
> there is a cost factor to providing for my rights to be honored.  By your
> logic we could dispense with all live webcasts of the ICANN Public Forum
> sessions and treat the community only to a recording after the meetings had
> already adjourned.  I don't accept that argument as having any validity.  The
> constituencies were well aware of their financial obligation to allow for
> electronic attendance at Names Council sessions when they committed
> themselves to membership in the DNSO.  If you don't like the bylaws, change
> them... but until they are amended you have an obligation to honor the bylaws
> (whether you personally like it or not).
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>

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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:39:48 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Rick,

What is unreasonable is violating the bylaws with impunity.  What is 
unreasonable is a Council session that does not provide the public with an 
opportunity to participate in the discussion of issues relating to the gTLD 
namespace.  Even the ICANN Board allows for comments/queries from the public, 
the Council does not.  The public still has certain rights under the bylaws 
that should not be abridged by the actions of self-serving special interest 
groups.  
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Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:12:51 -0800
From: Bret Fausett <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Danny, the bylaw provision that you cited to begin this thread required the
DNSO to enable electronic "attendance." That's not the same as
"participation," which is why I view the mp3 recordings as a substantial
equivalent to what the bylaws require. If what you're really seeking is the
ability to participate in NC meetings, then that requires a bylaw change
(and the fact that you cannot now participate is not a bylaw violation).

      -- Bret
         (my last post on this topic)

[email-masked] wrote:
> What is unreasonable is violating the bylaws with impunity.  What is
> unreasonable is a Council session that does not provide the public with an
> opportunity to participate in the discussion of issues relating to the gTLD
> namespace.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:11:28 -0600
From: Andy Gardner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

At 12:12 PM -0800 11/8/02, Bret Fausett wrote:
>Danny, the bylaw provision that you cited to begin this thread required the
>DNSO to enable electronic "attendance." That's not the same as
>"participation," which is why I view the mp3 recordings as a substantial
>equivalent to what the bylaws require.

I don't.

>If what you're really seeking is the
>ability to participate in NC meetings, then that requires a bylaw change
>(and the fact that you cannot now participate is not a bylaw violation).

"Attendance" is realtime. If one is due to "attend" a board meeting and an
observer, but misses the bus, turns up late and only gets to listen to a
recording of the meeting, that person would be marked as "not in
attendance" in the minutes.

"Attendance" is being there. "Participating" is being there and having your
voice heard.

We may not have the right to "participate", but we have the right to
"attend". Listening to MP3 after the event is not "attending" and is not
even an unsubstancial equivalent.

I remain,

- -- 
Andrew P. Gardner
barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:34:07 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Hello,

If the meetings are already being recorded by a PC, it likely would be
fairly easy to setup up a Shoutcast server to allow listening in
real-time via MP3-streaming. See:

http://www.shoutcast.com/download/

Live365.com has some paid packages, too, at:

http://www.live365.com/pro/pricing.html

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

__________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:48:11 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] DNSO GA mailing list archive broken?

Hello,

See:

http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc11/maillist.html

It hasn't been updated since early yesterday. 

The version "without rules" at:

http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga-full/Arc11/maillist.html

is working properly, so I suspect a script died, or something...

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

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Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:34:45 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Rick and all assembly members or other interested parties,

  Rick you are likely right here in your contention as to danny's
insistence on adhering to the Bylaws.  If you are correct,
such a predetermined act of purposefully ignoring the bylaws
and restricting unnecessarily participation in this manner
is paramount to ICANN and the NC acting in other than the
ICANN bylaws require as well as showing that transparency,
accountability and openness is further eroding.

Rick Wesson wrote:

> danny,
>
> you are being unreasonable, which lessens any impact you wish to achieve
> in your posts to this list.
>
> the more you persue this the less anyone will listen to you on other
> topics.
>
> -rick
>
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 [email-masked] wrote:
>
> > Brett,
> >
> > You are not at liberty to abrogate my rights under the bylaws simply because
> > there is a cost factor to providing for my rights to be honored.  By your
> > logic we could dispense with all live webcasts of the ICANN Public Forum
> > sessions and treat the community only to a recording after the meetings had
> > already adjourned.  I don't accept that argument as having any validity.  The
> > constituencies were well aware of their financial obligation to allow for
> > electronic attendance at Names Council sessions when they committed
> > themselves to membership in the DNSO.  If you don't like the bylaws, change
> > them... but until they are amended you have an obligation to honor the bylaws
> > (whether you personally like it or not).
> > --
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> >
>
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Regards,

- --
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Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:06:51 +0000
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Listen-only ports

Andy Gardner wrote:

>
>"Attendance" is realtime. If one is due to "attend" a board meeting and an
>observer, but misses the bus, turns up late and only gets to listen to a
>recording of the meeting, that person would be marked as "not in
>attendance" in the minutes.
>
>"Attendance" is being there. "Participating" is being there and having your
>voice heard.
>
>We may not have the right to "participate", but we have the right to
>"attend". Listening to MP3 after the event is not "attending" and is not
>even an unsubstancial equivalent.
>

I have mixed feelings about the matter.

While Andy is right on the difference between "attending" and 
"participating", the concept of "attending" in itself has to be stretched if 
attendence is not "in person", but via electronic media.
To me "attending" means "to be there in time and space". I am attending a 
football match if I go to the stadium, not if I watch it on television. In 
the example of the person missing the bus, if he/she was sick and saw the 
live broadcast of the event in real time on television, he/she would be 
marked as absent anyhow.

But this is theory. In practice, as Bret is pointing out, there is a 
cost-benefit analysis that we should carry on before making a decision.
For me, but this is just my personal view, I don't see any advantage in 
"listening to" (because this is the real thing that is going to happen, in 
either case) in real-time over the phone versus listening to the recording 
over the web, given the fact that I have no way to react in real-time, like 
for instance sending comments via e-mail. In other words, for me it makes 
little difference to listen to the event when it happens or a couple of 
hours later.
Of course, I might be biased from the fact that there is a substantial cost 
from my part in making a phone call to the US from over here.
Maybe my mileage would vary if I had a substantially lower cost, like for 
instance if I were in North America, or the number to call would be in 
Austria, or if somebody would pay for the call. But since none of these 
conditions are likely to apply, I stay with the current system.

It is a little bit like watching sports events on television: I can live 
with the recorded tape, as long as I don't know the results in advance.
Now this might bring up another subject, but let's leave it there for the 
time being...

Regards
Roberto

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Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:45:33 -0800
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: ICANN Staff Changes ? - New TLS - Attn. Stuart Lynn/Steve Crocker

Jim, Steve, Stuart and all,

  It is interesting that Steve says he is not a part of the ICANN staff.  That
certainly is news to me...  Thank you Steve for this clarification.

  What is even more interesting sense along time ago now it was
clearly determined from other studies that there is no technical
limit to the number of new TLD's that can be added that before
the study/committee that Steve Crocker was "Ask" to participate
on along with a number of others.
See: http://www.icann.org/committees/ntepptf/new-gtld-action-plan-18oct02.htm#I-Recommendations
Where the following was pre-stated by Stuart Lynn:
"I therefore recommend that the Board instruct the staff to solicit proposals
for up to three more sponsored TLDs as an extension of the "Proof of Concept"
and following similar, if somewhat streamlined, criteria and ground rules,
subject to funding a rapid study, based on sampling techniques as appropriate, to
assess to what extent, if any, the new sponsored TLDs have admitted
registrants that lie outside of their charters."

  This would seem to rather significant as well as somewhat premature
to pre-limit the number of new or additional TLD's to three...???
How could and honest study for adding new TLD's pre-limit the
number of those new TLD's?

Jim Fleming wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Crocker" <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:26 AM
> Subject: RE: ICANN Staff Changes ?
>
> > I am not part of the ICANN staff.  I chair the Security and Stability
> > Advisory Committee om a volunteer basis.
> >
>
> If I recall, you claim to do technical work. Is there any recent evidence of that ?
>
> When will the number of TLDs in the new Taxonomy Economy be disclosed by the IETF ?
> http://www.icann.org/committees/ntepptf/new-gtld-action-plan-18oct02.htm
> If the answer is already known to be 32, then people may want to engineer to that.
> If the TLD namespace will be capped at 256, that may result in different sizing.
> Registrars just likely want to know if the number of TLDs will fit on their splash pages.
> It looks like 32 is about the limit, if you look at a modern multi-TLD provider's Taxonomy...
> http://www.New.Net
>
> If only 32 are allowed, then .COM may not be included...
> http://www.icann.org/comments-mail/icann-current/msg00342.html
> 10514 INC
> 9264 ONLINE
> 7288 NET
> 6472 USA
> 4481 GROUP
> 4101 WEB
> 3891 TECH
> 3077 UK
> ---
> 2762 DESIGN
> 2570 SYSTEMS
> 2542 IT
> 2415 US
> 2378 SOLUTIONS
> 2322 LINE
> 2209 LAW
> 2171 CONSULTING
> ---
> 2161 INFO
> 2033 SERVICES
> 2027 WORLD
> 1966 SOFTWARE
> 1940 INTERNATIONAL
> 1932 INTL
> 1880 CORP
> 1874 CO
> ---
> 1803 SHOP
> 1795 FRANCE
> 1720 HOMES
> 1671 S
> 1638 ART
> 1603 TV
> 1587 TRAVEL
> 1555 MAIL
> --------------- 32 above --------
> 1534 EUROPE
> 1529 DIRECT
> 1491 MEDIA
> 1487 MALL
> 1431 E
> 1419 LTD
> 1417 ASSOCIATES
> 1411 1
> 1361 SERVICE
> 1342 2000
> 1339 Z
> 1301 NETWORK
> 1289 NEWS
> 1269 INT
> 1232 SA
> 1218 ENTERPRISES
> 1217 CENTER
> 1216 CLUB
> 1202 MARKETING
> 1177 REALTY
> 1161 MUSIC
> 1149 STORE
> 1144 INSURANCE
> 1108 I
> 1101 COM
> ========
>
> When will the number of TLDs in the new Taxonomy Economy be disclosed by the IETF ?

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1503
*************************