Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1382
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Monday, August 19 2002           Volume 01 : Number 1382

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:30:17 -0700
From: Bret Fausett <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its proposals..."

Roberto Gaetano wrote:
> A lot of people have tried to debate with ideas, to make comments on the
> different fora, to present their points in a democratic and polite way.

Well said, Roberto.

Participation has to lead somewhere. For folks, like me, who have been
looking for an At Large mechanism since 1998, every path has been a
dead-end. Do you have any idea how many person hours have gone into the
Membership Advisory Committee (1998-99), the Membership Implementation Task
Force (1999), the Advisory Committee on Membership (1999), the At Large
elections (2000), and the At Large Study Committee (2000-02)? And where are
we now? Heck, even a rat comes to learn which doors give the electric shock.
But here we are, doing it all over again, with efforts like icannatlarge.com
(978 members: http://www.icannatlarge.com/view.php?sortorder=chrono) and the
At Large Organizing Committee.

The fact that people have stuck around longer than less sentient animals
would have under similar circumstances is a testament to their goodwill,
their desire to assist ICANN (not tear it down), and the belief in the
importance of ICANN's mission.

So the proof is really in the results this time. I can see one path
implementing the Blueprint that would be a dramatic improvement over the
status quo, on all fronts. But I'm skeptical that we're going to see an
ICANN 2.0 that is anything more than a rearrangement of the same players,
with the same skeptical ears listening to the same frustrated voices, only
operating with different titles and in newly named fora. If that happens, I
think ICANN can pretty well write off seeing informed participation from
anyone, ever. We've got to find a way to get intelligent people from the
"outside" into the ICANN mainstream, and we have to ensure that informed
participation translates into tangible results.

If I read Mr. Cohen's post to the General Assembly on Friday without the
obvious signs of stress that he peppered into it, I hear him asking for a
more civil tone of debate and an acknowledgment on the part of participants
that debate ends at some point and we all move on to the next issue. Good
ideas. But they ought to go both ways. By the time of the Shanghai meeting,
ICANN will be four years old. Throughout each of those four years, the Board
has been told by a significant chorus in the community that it needed a
strong At Large presence. It hasn't yet turned all of that input into
something tangible. We're now too far down the road to continue to take an
experimental approach to the At Large. Let's implement something meaningful
and then, by all means, move on to ICANN's real work.

   -- Bret

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:15:33 -0500
From: Don Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

I guess the list monitors can't make everyone happy . . .

I've seen several posts, recently, which essentially say that you
waste our time. Perhaps, then, self-censorship is, indeed, an
appropriate undertaking . . .

Thanks,

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 5:22:20 PM, Joe Sims <[email-masked]> wrote:
JS> And you don't view Froomkin's attack on Jon Cohen as a personal attack?  Please, bar me from posting on this list so I am not tempted to further waste my time.

JS> Joe Sims
JS> Jones Day Reavis & Pogue
JS> 51 Louisiana Avenue NW
JS> Washington, D.C. 20001
JS> Direct Phone:  1.202.879.3863
JS> Direct Fax:  1.202.626.1747
JS> Mobile Phone:  1.703.629.3963

JS> ==============================
JS> The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privileges, or constitute
JS> non-public information. It is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by replying to this
JS> message and then delete it from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
JS> ============================== 

JS> -----"List monitor and GA chair." <[email-masked]> wrote: -----

JS> To: Joe Sims <[email-masked]>, Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>, Jeff Field <[email-masked]>, Jim Fleming <[email-masked]>
JS> From: "List monitor and GA chair." <[email-masked]>
JS> Date: 08/18/2002 09:00AM
JS> cc: [email-masked], GA List Monitoring <[email-masked]>
JS> Subject: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

JS> Dear all,

JS> during the last two days, the list climate has deteriorated 
JS> dramatically. This is a reminder to all participants that this is a 
JS> forum with rules:

JS>  The following rules apply to content of messages on the GA list:
JS>  - The messages must be relevant to the business of the GA
JS>  - The messages must observe a minimum of decorum, including:
JS>  - Not indulging in personal attacks, insults or slander
JS>  - Not using offensive language
  
JS>  - If the GA Chair or a list monitor asks for a limit to the number 
JS>  of posts per person per day, this must be respected
  
JS>  - The size of messages should be kept reasonable (there should be a 
JS>  VERY good reason to send a message of more than 10 Kbytes).

JS> (from http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html)

JS> We hope that we can quickly return to a GA list where all 
JS> participants respect this set of rules and stop all personal attacks 
JS> and insults *IMMEDIATELY*. Those people who keep disrespecting these 
JS> rules -- a minimum of decorum -- will be put under moderation, as a 
JS> mild form of what's suggested in the blueprint for reform.

JS> This warning is directed in particular at the following people:

JS> -- JOE SIMS for personal attacks ("hoping to rescue an otherwise 
JS>  unimpressive career by finding a niche where you can be 
JS>  perceived as the expert";"Junk like the stuff you post";
JS>  "the real sneers here from serious people are reserved for 
JS>  folks like you")

JS> -- ERIC DIERKER for personal attacks ("self aggrandizing jackass") 
JS>  and offensive language ("shitty advice")

JS> -- JEFF FIELD for offensive personal attacks ("arrogant asshole")

JS> -- JIM FLEMING for breaking the posting limit (Jim Fleming has
JS>  recently received warnings for off-topic postings; this is
JS>  the last warning)

JS> Please don't reply to this message.  Thank you!

JS> Alexander Svensson                             Thomas Roessler
JS>  (List Monitor)                                    (Chair)
JS> --
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 19:23:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming 

Dear Mr. Henderson,

While I much appreciate the sentiments that I'm sure motivate your request
quoted below, I appeal to you to withdraw it.  I have always opposed the
content-based censorship of ICANN-related lists (although I've no
objection to content-neutral volume or frequency limits), and the fact
that I happen to be the target of someone's bile does not change my belief
that censorship on lists relating to public policy-making is both a bad
idea in principle (people should filter their own mail, not have it done
for them) and in practice (lists that have censorship policies too often
end up debating those policies rather than matters of substance).

As to what to make of the actual give and take, I refer readers to Bret
Fausett's comments at
http://icann.blog.us/stories/2002/08/17/whoStoleIcannsStrawberries.html 

Best regards,

Michael Froomkin

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Richard Henderson wrote:

> In the absence of any apology to Michael Froomkin, and because there is no
> reassurance that Mr Sims will not repeat his unfounded slurs against Michael
> Froomkin's integrity and reputation, I formally request the moderators to
> bar this correspondent.
> 
> Mr Sims has responded to your warning, not with a reassurance, but with the
> challenge: "Please, bar me from posting on this list."
> 
> I formally request that you carry out his instructions, and that he is not
> re-admitted until he gives assurances that he will not again attack Mr
> Froomkin's good name.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Richard Henderson
> 
> --
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> 
> 

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		Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:03:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming 

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:

> Dear Mr. Henderson,
>
> While I much appreciate the sentiments that I'm sure motivate your request
> quoted below, I appeal to you to withdraw it.  I have always opposed the
> content-based censorship of ICANN-related lists (although I've no
> objection to content-neutral volume or frequency limits), and the fact
> that I happen to be the target of someone's bile does not change my belief
> that censorship on lists relating to public policy-making is both a bad
> idea in principle (people should filter their own mail, not have it done
> for them) and in practice (lists that have censorship policies too often
> end up debating those policies rather than matters of substance).

ya right - you were a bit slow on numourous occassions to defend my rights
when censorship was imposed on yours trully.  by the time you got off you
butt and expounded the great censorship debate i had already managed to
post to the list under altered identities.  thank god i had that power -
relying on you to fight the censorship back then was not a reliable
gamble.

but it gives me great pleasure to see you rejoice in Sims stupidity and
you do play the bewildered rape victim part well - especially with the
forgiveness twist.  my hat off to you froomkin - job well done.

> As to what to make of the actual give and take, I refer readers to Bret
> Fausett's comments at
> http://icann.blog.us/stories/2002/08/17/whoStoleIcannsStrawberries.html

great reading.

joe baptista

> Best regards,
>
> Michael Froomkin
>
> On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Richard Henderson wrote:
>
> > In the absence of any apology to Michael Froomkin, and because there is no
> > reassurance that Mr Sims will not repeat his unfounded slurs against Michael
> > Froomkin's integrity and reputation, I formally request the moderators to
> > bar this correspondent.
> >
> > Mr Sims has responded to your warning, not with a reassurance, but with the
> > challenge: "Please, bar me from posting on this list."
> >
> > I formally request that you carry out his instructions, and that he is not
> > re-admitted until he gives assurances that he will not again attack Mr
> > Froomkin's good name.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Richard Henderson
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> > Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
> >
>
> --
> 		Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
> A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
> U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
> +1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>                       -->It's very hot here.<--
>
>
> --
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> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 19:30:13 -0500
From: Don Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Offensive language

all cc's trimmed.

Obviously, from your post, you know how to handle yourself when with
the Navajo shepards and when fishing on the Mekong Delta. That begs
the question of why appropriate posting to the GA list is a challenge?

Pursuant to your post below, as man with your educational credentials,
an extensive knowledge of cultural divergence and a prior experience
of being chastised for, perhaps, liberal use of language, why do you
not then have the intellect, vocabulary and courtesy to avoid those
words that other cultures, or even people of your culture, may find
offensive?

The problem at hand is not censorship, as you put it. It about taking
common responsibility for following the rules of the list and that of
general, common decorum.

I would support your cause 110%, if this were a case of censorship.
It is not.  Conversely, it is a case of righteous indignation, for
all of the wrong, and immature, reasons.

Most mature people generally suck it up, take responsibility and move
on. I have been wrong many, many times and will, most assuredly be so,
again.

Certainly, I didn't really have a problem with the words used, as
quoted by the Chair/Monitor, but I would have had a problem, if
viewed by my daughter (30+ yrs old, too) or my wife.

The indignation is far-fetched, misplaced and quite similar to a
VeriSign or SnapNames spin on the truth. I hope you will just move on.

Thanks,

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 12:27:59 PM, [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:
ehtc> When an exchange is equal between two American English speakers and it
ehtc> appears rough and tumble to a ESL German native, it should be monitored
ehtc> by American English speakers.

ehtc> We must remain sensitive to cultures and suggestions of vulgarity from
ehtc> one culture that is not vulgar in the other is completely
ehtc> discriminatory.  I have recently been chastised for language that has
ehtc> many times been used in my many legislatures and in decorum such as
ehtc> court rooms.

ehtc> Because I speak with an openness accustomed to a South-western American
ehtc> I am being threatened and told my use of my native tongue in accordance
ehtc> with our culture is wrong.  This is a hate thing and it is wrong.
ehtc> AS and TR have not a clue what is offensive when I am on a Horse in
ehtc> Winslow Arizona with Navajo shephards or what is offensive when I am
ehtc> fishing in the Mekong Delta.  I am sure they do not know what is
ehtc> offensive in an Internet Room/Bar in Sidney or the Parliament in
ehtc> England.

ehtc> You people have no right to judge my language in American English.  I
ehtc> have a degree in Linguistic Philosophy from Northern Arizona University
ehtc> and a Degree in Law from California Western School of Law and you two
ehtc> are going to judge what is right to say in my culture?  I have studied
ehtc> language in the American Universities in Puebla Mexico and Paris France,
ehtc> I have studied directly under Salinger and Kissinger and you have the
ehtc> gaul to tell me what is proper language.

ehtc> This is direct censorship by threat, something which is unacceptable in
ehtc> the WIPO and WTO and EU and all international standards. It is a direct
ehtc> violation of about fifteen BTAs that I am aware of.

ehtc> this is exactly why Danny is fighting a losing battle in ICANN there are
ehtc> these weird folks running around infringing upon free speech so no
ehtc> voices are really being heard. This is a matter of right and wrong and
ehtc> book burning.  You are operating under a contract with the US government
ehtc> and operating under a license from The Great State of California and
ehtc> Under Permission of the IRS, I will nail your scrawny censoring
ehtc> derrières in all courts wich maintain jurisdiction in these matters.  If
ehtc> you want to subject ICANN to this type of liability with your clearly
ehtc> implied threats, go ahead and keep it up.  I ain't like Karl I am not
ehtc> patient.  I will not tolerate the abuse of one of my self evident truths
ehtc> of free speech.  And if a government body, or one of it's contractors
ehtc> interferes therein I will defend my constitution and the mandate of the
ehtc> UN as I have sworn to do.

ehtc> Review even your own supreme court's decision as to what is offensive or
ehtc> considered a personal attack.

ehtc> Most Sincerely,
ehtc> eric

ehtc> Please review the threats at;
ehtc> http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc10/msg03478.html

ehtc> --
ehtc> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
ehtc> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
ehtc> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
ehtc> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

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[email-masked]         http://www.inetconcepts.net
PGP Key ID: 04C99A55              (972) 788-2364  Fax: (972) 788-5049
Providing Internet Solutions Worldwide - An eDataWeb Affiliate
- ----

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 12:27:59 PM, [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:
ehtc> When an exchange is equal between two American English speakers and it
ehtc> appears rough and tumble to a ESL German native, it should be monitored
ehtc> by American English speakers.

ehtc> We must remain sensitive to cultures and suggestions of vulgarity from
ehtc> one culture that is not vulgar in the other is completely
ehtc> discriminatory.  I have recently been chastised for language that has
ehtc> many times been used in my many legislatures and in decorum such as
ehtc> court rooms.

ehtc> Because I speak with an openness accustomed to a South-western American
ehtc> I am being threatened and told my use of my native tongue in accordance
ehtc> with our culture is wrong.  This is a hate thing and it is wrong.
ehtc> AS and TR have not a clue what is offensive when I am on a Horse in
ehtc> Winslow Arizona with Navajo shephards or what is offensive when I am
ehtc> fishing in the Mekong Delta.  I am sure they do not know what is
ehtc> offensive in an Internet Room/Bar in Sidney or the Parliament in
ehtc> England.

ehtc> You people have no right to judge my language in American English.  I
ehtc> have a degree in Linguistic Philosophy from Northern Arizona University
ehtc> and a Degree in Law from California Western School of Law and you two
ehtc> are going to judge what is right to say in my culture?  I have studied
ehtc> language in the American Universities in Puebla Mexico and Paris France,
ehtc> I have studied directly under Salinger and Kissinger and you have the
ehtc> gaul to tell me what is proper language.

ehtc> This is direct censorship by threat, something which is unacceptable in
ehtc> the WIPO and WTO and EU and all international standards. It is a direct
ehtc> violation of about fifteen BTAs that I am aware of.

ehtc> this is exactly why Danny is fighting a losing battle in ICANN there are
ehtc> these weird folks running around infringing upon free speech so no
ehtc> voices are really being heard. This is a matter of right and wrong and
ehtc> book burning.  You are operating under a contract with the US government
ehtc> and operating under a license from The Great State of California and
ehtc> Under Permission of the IRS, I will nail your scrawny censoring
ehtc> derrières in all courts wich maintain jurisdiction in these matters.  If
ehtc> you want to subject ICANN to this type of liability with your clearly
ehtc> implied threats, go ahead and keep it up.  I ain't like Karl I am not
ehtc> patient.  I will not tolerate the abuse of one of my self evident truths
ehtc> of free speech.  And if a government body, or one of it's contractors
ehtc> interferes therein I will defend my constitution and the mandate of the
ehtc> UN as I have sworn to do.

ehtc> Review even your own supreme court's decision as to what is offensive or
ehtc> considered a personal attack.

ehtc> Most Sincerely,
ehtc> eric

ehtc> Please review the threats at;
ehtc> http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc10/msg03478.html

ehtc> --
ehtc> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
ehtc> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
ehtc> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
ehtc> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

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[email-masked]         http://www.inetconcepts.net
PGP Key ID: 04C99A55              (972) 788-2364  Fax: (972) 788-5049
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:06:57 -0400
From: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its proposals..."

Karl, I appreciate your post, but I do question your comment about the DNSO NC. 
Posting questions isn't the only way to take input/exchange information. dialogue can occur in 
one to one conversations, in the NC itself, and within constituencies.

Let's not judge how others process information by what "we" need for ourselves.
:-)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Karl Auerbach [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:46 PM
To: Roberto Gaetano
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its
proposals..."

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

(I've pruned the cc-list.)

> ... I would be please by a post from every 
> Director stating that he/she did read the postings on public fora on the 
> subjects on which the Board had to take a decision.

I try to read as much as I physically can, but it is impossible to read, 
much less comprehend, all of it.

Given the ambiguities of human languages it is impossible to say that I
always "understand" what has been said - I often have to ask follow-up
questions.  To my mind it is the absence of these clarifying questions
from other ICANN BoD members and functionaries (including the DNSO NC)
that indicates that ICANN is, for the most part, not really listening.

And as a board member, I can attest that the news that is fed to the board 
by ICANN's management is highly filtered and pre-digested.

Now, one could excuse this if board members were willing to obtain 
information themselves.

		--karl--

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:34:15 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its proposals..."

Karl and all assembly members,

  Thank you Karl for yet again confirming what most of us that
have been arond for awhile have known sense '98.

Karl Auerbach wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
>
> (I've pruned the cc-list.)
>
> > ... I would be please by a post from every
> > Director stating that he/she did read the postings on public fora on the
> > subjects on which the Board had to take a decision.
>
> I try to read as much as I physically can, but it is impossible to read,
> much less comprehend, all of it.
>
> Given the ambiguities of human languages it is impossible to say that I
> always "understand" what has been said - I often have to ask follow-up
> questions.  To my mind it is the absence of these clarifying questions
> from other ICANN BoD members and functionaries (including the DNSO NC)
> that indicates that ICANN is, for the most part, not really listening.
>
> And as a board member, I can attest that the news that is fed to the board
> by ICANN's management is highly filtered and pre-digested.
>
> Now, one could excuse this if board members were willing to obtain
> information themselves.
>
>                 --karl--
>
> --
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> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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Regards,

- --
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Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:37:03 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

Joe and all assembly members,

  If you cannot control yourself, as you seem to indicate here.  Perhaps

you should seek some professional physiological concealing...

Joe Sims wrote:

> And you don't view Froomkin's attack on Jon Cohen as a personal
> attack?  Please, bar me from posting on this list so I am not tempted
> to further waste my time.
>
>
> Joe Sims
> Jones Day Reavis & Pogue
> 51 Louisiana Avenue NW
> Washington, D.C. 20001
> Direct Phone:  1.202.879.3863
> Direct Fax:  1.202.626.1747
> Mobile Phone:  1.703.629.3963
>
> ==============================
> The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
> information that may be confidential, be protected by the
> attorney-client or other applicable privileges, or constitute
> non-public information. It is intended to be conveyed only to the
> designated recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this
> message, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then
> delete it from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
> reproduction of this message by unintended recipients is not
> authorized and may be unlawful.
> ==============================  -----"List monitor and GA chair."
> <[email-masked]> wrote: -----
>
> To: Joe Sims <[email-masked]>, Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>,
> Jeff Field <[email-masked]>, Jim Fleming <[email-masked]>
> From: "List monitor and GA chair." <[email-masked]>
> Date: 08/18/2002 09:00AM
> cc: [email-masked], GA List Monitoring <[email-masked]>
> Subject: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker,
> Field, Fleming
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> during the last two days, the list climate has deteriorated
> dramatically. This is a reminder to all participants that this is a
> forum with rules:
>
> The following rules apply to content of messages on the GA list:
> - The messages must be relevant to the business of the GA
> - The messages must observe a minimum of decorum, including:
> - Not indulging in personal attacks, insults or slander
> - Not using offensive language
>
> - If the GA Chair or a list monitor asks for a limit to the number
> of posts per person per day, this must be respected
>
> - The size of messages should be kept reasonable (there should be a
> VERY good reason to send a message of more than 10 Kbytes).
>
> (from http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html)
>
> We hope that we can quickly return to a GA list where all
> participants respect this set of rules and stop all personal attacks
> and insults *IMMEDIATELY*. Those people who keep disrespecting these
> rules -- a minimum of decorum -- will be put under moderation, as a
> mild form of what's suggested in the blueprint for reform.
>
> This warning is directed in particular at the following people:
>
> -- JOE SIMS for personal attacks ("hoping to rescue an otherwise
> unimpressive career by finding a niche where you can be
> perceived as the expert";"Junk like the stuff you post";
> "the real sneers here from serious people are reserved for
> folks like you")
>
> -- ERIC DIERKER for personal attacks ("self aggrandizing jackass")
> and offensive language ("shitty advice")
>
> -- JEFF FIELD for offensive personal attacks ("arrogant asshole")
>
> -- JIM FLEMING for breaking the posting limit (Jim Fleming has
> recently received warnings for off-topic postings; this is
> the last warning)
>
> Please don't reply to this message. Thank you!
>
> Alexander Svensson Thomas Roessler
> (List Monitor) (Chair)
> -- This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list. Send mail
> to [email-masked] to unsubscribe ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of
> the message). Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:48:34 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its proposals..."

Marilyn and all assembly members,

  Respectfully Marilyn I disagree with you here.  Indeed how "We" process
information is really not the point but in part is just a twist of what IS the point
of Karls point(s).  Rather any and all input to any constituency should
be open and transparent.  This means accessible, which is a process
problem.  Process, openness, and transparency problems have been, and
remain the crux of most of the DNSO's, the ICANN BOD, and staff's
current as well as ongoing systemic problems...

Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:

> Karl, I appreciate your post, but I do question your comment about the DNSO NC.
> Posting questions isn't the only way to take input/exchange information. dialogue can occur in
> one to one conversations, in the NC itself, and within constituencies.
>
> Let's not judge how others process information by what "we" need for ourselves.
> :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Auerbach [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:46 PM
> To: Roberto Gaetano
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its
> proposals..."
>
> On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
>
> (I've pruned the cc-list.)
>
> > ... I would be please by a post from every
> > Director stating that he/she did read the postings on public fora on the
> > subjects on which the Board had to take a decision.
>
> I try to read as much as I physically can, but it is impossible to read,
> much less comprehend, all of it.
>
> Given the ambiguities of human languages it is impossible to say that I
> always "understand" what has been said - I often have to ask follow-up
> questions.  To my mind it is the absence of these clarifying questions
> from other ICANN BoD members and functionaries (including the DNSO NC)
> that indicates that ICANN is, for the most part, not really listening.
>
> And as a board member, I can attest that the news that is fed to the board
> by ICANN's management is highly filtered and pre-digested.
>
> Now, one could excuse this if board members were willing to obtain
> information themselves.
>
>                 --karl--
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html

Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:59:34 -0500
From: Andy Gardner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

At 6:22 PM -0400 8/18/02, Joe Sims wrote:

>  Please, bar me from posting on this list so I am not tempted to further
>waste my time.

Given that you're probably charging ICANN (like a wounded bull) for your
"work" here, it would suit me fine.

Better yet, do the entire Internet Community a favour and get the hell out
of ICANN completely.

We all know you're the chief saboteur.

- -- 
Andrew P. Gardner
barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
- --
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:26:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Jeff Williams wrote:

> Joe and all assembly members,
>
>   If you cannot control yourself, as you seem to indicate here.  Perhaps
>
> you should seek some professional physiological concealing...

i disagree.  it's clear joe sims needs an emergency session with a
dominatrix.  he's certainly acting the part.

i'm amazed at the transition.  i'm convenced joe sims is the result of the
consumtion of too much ican fairy dust.

regards
joe baptista

>
> Joe Sims wrote:
>
> > And you don't view Froomkin's attack on Jon Cohen as a personal
> > attack?  Please, bar me from posting on this list so I am not tempted
> > to further waste my time.
> >
> >
> > Joe Sims
> > Jones Day Reavis & Pogue
> > 51 Louisiana Avenue NW
> > Washington, D.C. 20001
> > Direct Phone:  1.202.879.3863
> > Direct Fax:  1.202.626.1747
> > Mobile Phone:  1.703.629.3963
> >
> > ==============================
> > The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
> > information that may be confidential, be protected by the
> > attorney-client or other applicable privileges, or constitute
> > non-public information. It is intended to be conveyed only to the
> > designated recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this
> > message, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then
> > delete it from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
> > reproduction of this message by unintended recipients is not
> > authorized and may be unlawful.
> > ==============================  -----"List monitor and GA chair."
> > <[email-masked]> wrote: -----
> >
> > To: Joe Sims <[email-masked]>, Eric Dierker <[email-masked]>,
> > Jeff Field <[email-masked]>, Jim Fleming <[email-masked]>
> > From: "List monitor and GA chair." <[email-masked]>
> > Date: 08/18/2002 09:00AM
> > cc: [email-masked], GA List Monitoring <[email-masked]>
> > Subject: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker,
> > Field, Fleming
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > during the last two days, the list climate has deteriorated
> > dramatically. This is a reminder to all participants that this is a
> > forum with rules:
> >
> > The following rules apply to content of messages on the GA list:
> > - The messages must be relevant to the business of the GA
> > - The messages must observe a minimum of decorum, including:
> > - Not indulging in personal attacks, insults or slander
> > - Not using offensive language
> >
> > - If the GA Chair or a list monitor asks for a limit to the number
> > of posts per person per day, this must be respected
> >
> > - The size of messages should be kept reasonable (there should be a
> > VERY good reason to send a message of more than 10 Kbytes).
> >
> > (from http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html)
> >
> > We hope that we can quickly return to a GA list where all
> > participants respect this set of rules and stop all personal attacks
> > and insults *IMMEDIATELY*. Those people who keep disrespecting these
> > rules -- a minimum of decorum -- will be put under moderation, as a
> > mild form of what's suggested in the blueprint for reform.
> >
> > This warning is directed in particular at the following people:
> >
> > -- JOE SIMS for personal attacks ("hoping to rescue an otherwise
> > unimpressive career by finding a niche where you can be
> > perceived as the expert";"Junk like the stuff you post";
> > "the real sneers here from serious people are reserved for
> > folks like you")
> >
> > -- ERIC DIERKER for personal attacks ("self aggrandizing jackass")
> > and offensive language ("shitty advice")
> >
> > -- JEFF FIELD for offensive personal attacks ("arrogant asshole")
> >
> > -- JIM FLEMING for breaking the posting limit (Jim Fleming has
> > recently received warnings for off-topic postings; this is
> > the last warning)
> >
> > Please don't reply to this message. Thank you!
> >
> > Alexander Svensson Thomas Roessler
> > (List Monitor) (Chair)
> > -- This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list. Send mail
> > to [email-masked] to unsubscribe ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of
> > the message). Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail [email-masked]
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>

- --
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------------------------------

End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1382
*************************