Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1381
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Monday, August 19 2002           Volume 01 : Number 1381

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:04:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Wesson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] something for the WHOIS committee?

> Isn't it at all possible for registrars to convert
> an email address into a GIF or JPEG format to thwart current automated mining
> practices?  It seems to me that everyone would appreciate that type of a
> service...

no, not over port 43 whois, there is no way to define a gif or jpeg over a
protocol whois bnf is simply reduced to .*\r\n

If you want to do engineering of the port 43 whois protocol and its
successors I suggest you review the relevant groups at
http://www.ietf.org.

- -rick

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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:41:45 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] something for the WHOIS committee?

Rick and all assembly members,

  Danny amongst a host of others are a bit less then technically
qualified over The Whois and port assignments.  Unfortunately
Danny in this instance sort of showed that lack of expertise or
otherwise knowledge base...  Live and learn I suppose...

Rick Wesson wrote:

> > Isn't it at all possible for registrars to convert
> > an email address into a GIF or JPEG format to thwart current automated mining
> > practices?  It seems to me that everyone would appreciate that type of a
> > service...
>
> no, not over port 43 whois, there is no way to define a gif or jpeg over a
> protocol whois bnf is simply reduced to .*\r\n
>
> If you want to do engineering of the port 43 whois protocol and its
> successors I suggest you review the relevant groups at
> http://www.ietf.org.
>
> -rick
>
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Regards,
- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:54:08 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ga] something for the WHOIS committee?

Rick,

As Jeff Williams has so thoughtfully pointed out,  I am not an engineer, but 
I do have a question which either of you might answer...

I have seen returns to WHOIS queries that contain hyperlinks, an example 
being:
NS1.NAMESERVE.NET   64.226.28.41 (the digits being hyperlinked)

If in fact we have the ability over port 43 whois to introduce hyperlinks, 
then why not merely have an entry that states E-MAIL ADDRESS which is 
hyperlinked to another database that contains the email entry in a picture 
format, readable by humans but not easily read by current automated data 
mining techniques?  

PS  Thanks for helping a layman understand the complexities of the issue.
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:10:32 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] something for the WHOIS committee?

Danny and all assembly members,

[email-masked] wrote:

> Rick,
>
> As Jeff Williams has so thoughtfully pointed out,  I am not an engineer, but
> I do have a question which either of you might answer...
>
> I have seen returns to WHOIS queries that contain hyperlinks, an example
> being:
> NS1.NAMESERVE.NET   64.226.28.41 (the digits being hyperlinked)
>
> If in fact we have the ability over port 43 whois to introduce hyperlinks,
> then why not merely have an entry that states E-MAIL ADDRESS which is
> hyperlinked to another database that contains the email entry in a picture
> format, readable by humans but not easily read by current automated data
> mining techniques?

  There are a number of reasons this might not be well received or
desired of a technical nature.  One is the basic overhead network wise
in doing this.

>
>
> PS  Thanks for helping a layman understand the complexities of the issue.

  No problem and your welcome Danny!  >:)

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:17:50 -0400
From: "L. Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] something for the WHOIS committee?

I don't blame them for not wanting to publish their email address, but 
how then will they be notified of pending expiry or other administrative 
notices by the registrar?  

That is what I was referring to in earlier posts wrt privacy.  The registrar 
should have the address, but the registrant should have the option to not 
publish it, epecially if there is a website to which one can go to post a 
message to the webmaster.

Spam is the scourge of the net, IMO, but some of the spamfilters are 
almost as bad in filtering legitimate messages while still allowing UCE.

Leah

On 17 Aug 2002, at 23:01, [email-masked] wrote:

> Thomas,  
> 
> I found the following entry to be rather amusing -- the "registrant" is a
> website, and the email address is unabashedly falsified.  The "registrant"
> however does seem to offer wild card and multiple keyword searching...
> 
> Registrant:
>  WhoisReport.com
>  2225 109th AVE NE
>  Bellevue, WA 98004
>  US
> 
>  Domain Name: DOMAINWORLDWIDE.COM
> 
>  Administrative Contact:
>     Hostmaster, Domain  [email-masked]
>     Please visit the website if you need to contact us or call.
>     We do not post email in the whois because of spam.
>     NA, WA 00000
>     US
>     206-337-0652
> 
>  Technical Contact:
>     Hostmaster, Domain  [email-masked]
>     Please visit the website if you need to contact us or call.
>     We do not post email in the whois because of spam.
>     NA, WA 00000
>     US
>     206-337-0652
> 
> Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:32:41 -0400
From: "L. Gallegos" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: Pre-Registration Opens for ICANN Shanghai Meeting (28-31 October 2002)

Will the meeting be webcast?  Will the Chinese government allow it?  
If the meeting is webcast, what restrictions will be placed on it?  Will 
there be opportunity for interactive participation by remote attendees?  

Regards,

Leah Gallegos
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 09:01:40 -0500
From: Don Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] something for the WHOIS committee?

The advisory says ". . . reasonable and commercially practicable (a)
verification, at the time of registration . . . or (b) periodic
re-verification of such information. . . ."

I think that a Registrar who employs reasonable data edits at the
time of the registration is compliant with the requirements stated in
the advisory.

In this case, however, the Registrar may have been able to edit for
"no.valid.email@." That would have most probably caused a different,
but equally invalid, address to be entered.  There is a reasonable and
practical limit to what can be edited.

At least this Registrant is not trying to cloak their identity. There
is also a contact e-mail address posted on their web site: "Contact us
at: [email-masked]"

Saturday, August 17, 2002, 10:39:49 PM, [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:
Dcc> Rick,

Dcc> There probably should be a way of honoring the Advisory posted at 
Dcc> http://www.icann.org/announcements/advisory-10may02.htm while still 
Dcc> preventing data mining.  Isn't it at all possible for registrars to convert 
Dcc> an email address into a GIF or JPEG format to thwart current automated mining 
Dcc> practices?  It seems to me that everyone would appreciate that type of a 
Dcc> service...

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[email-masked]         http://www.inetconcepts.net
PGP Key ID: 04C99A55              (972) 788-2364  Fax: (972) 788-5049
Providing Internet Solutions Worldwide - An eDataWeb Affiliate
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:10:03 -0400
From: Dan Steinberg <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] [Fwd: IP: new architect - ICANN of worms]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, on this list, Jonathan Cohen wrote:

> And will those who disagree stop villifying, name calling ,cheap shotting
> because they dont get their way.Will people from 'some ' country stop
> invoking its world view on every aspect of ICANN and the Internet.Will
> ,those who dont like directions or decisions of ICANN stop whining to
> Congress or the DOC,will they take the time to check their facts,.Bob Dylan
> said it in a song a long time ago .....''try spending a day in our shoes''
> ,as VOLUNTEERS, at considerable personal cost in time,energy and MONEY!!Try
> listening to the push and pull from every direction,the criticism,the
> Politics,the Rhetoric, name calling AND WORSE,while you try to do the Best
> Job you can.Noone on the Board expects sympathy or "flowers"...But it would
> sure be refreshing to get some 'Balance'and some decent debate ,where if you
> dont win you shake hands and try again later...But maybe thats ''culturally
> biased''  see you around the "Ranch"
> 

Now it seems mighty incongruous...that Jonathan Cohen would make a
public, impassioned plea on the GA list for people to stop villifying,
name calling etc. Yet on different flank, he says the following...also
for public comment.

- -------- Original Message --------
From: Dave Farber <[email-masked]>
Subject: IP: new architect - ICANN of worms
To: ip <[email-masked]>

People keep asking me why I don¹t publish items that say good things re
ICANN. I would and very infrequently do when and if I get such. I am
tired
of endless negative items re ICANN and have biased away from sending
them
on. But when I get forwarded a note like this ....

Whem will ICANN stop shooting them selves in the foot?

Dave

- ------ Forwarded Message
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:28:18 -0700
To: [email-masked]
Subject: FW: new architect - ICANN of worms

Dave, 

Is ICANN regressing into infancy?  You be the judge... here's ICANN
board
member Jonathan Cohen's inexplicable response to my recent New Architect
column digesting recent events at ICANN.

CN 

Editor-in-Chief 
New Architect magazine
http://www.newarchitectmag.com/

PS My MBA is from The University of Texas at Austin and the "B" stands
for
"Business." 

"Jonathan Cohen" <[email-masked]> 08/16/2002 12:28 PM
        
        To:        <[email-masked]>
        cc:        
        bcc:       
        Subject:        FW: new architect - ICANN of worms

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Cohen [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 11:58 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: new architect - ICANN of worms

What a biased, superficial,distorted out of context,sensationalist piece
of
crap.The STAR needs this man to write copy for "Space Alien impregnates
Pop
Singer Madonna"..except even that may require some reasonable research
and
..."Facts"..where did he get that MBA? and what does the B stand for?
Jonathan
ps please feel free to forward my comments to Mr.Null and Void. Or the
Board
if they want a chuckle. God its a hoot being aVolunteer in Cyber-Hell!!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mary Hewitt [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:33 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: new architect - ICANN of worms

ICANN of Worms
The Internet governing body is short on answers and out of time
By Christopher Null
New Architect
September 2002

Even if you're a casual New Architect reader, you've likely noticed that
a
new mug is staring out at you from above these words. I'm pleased to
inherit
the leadership of the magazine from my esteemed colleague Amit
Asaravala.
And while I'm not big on introductions, a few words of prologue seem in
order, if for no other reason than to convince you that this magazine is
in
good hands.

My background includes editorial stints at Smart Business and LAN Times
magazines, and before that, I put in several years in software
development
and IT management. I have an MBA from The University of Texas at Austin
(and
was born and raised in Houston), but speak with no trace of a southern
accent.

I've been steeped in the Internet since the only "browser war" was
between
you and your copy of Mosaic. On a dare, I launched the movie review Web
site
FilmCritic.com in 1995, and much to my astonishment, the site is still
kicking today. From my catbird seat, I get to observe the Internet as it
impacts everything‹business, entertainment, pop culture, and mainstream
society. It's the perfect vantage point for leading New Architect into a
new
era, one in which technology is no longer a curiosity, but a vital part
of
any thriving enterprise.

I hope you continue to enjoy New Architect as it evolves. I encourage
you to
write me with your ideas, concerns, and suggestions, or just to say
hello.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----

If any Internet issue demands your immediate attention, it's the battle
that's being waged over the future of the Internet Corporation for
Assigned
Names and Numbers (ICANN). Of course, you can be forgiven for ignoring
the
protracted skirmish‹it is epic in its scope and extremely complex. In
case
you haven't been following the news, here's a sampling of recent ICANN
developments.

Karl Auerbach, an ICANN director, sued to inspect the corporate records
of
his own organization. His case is still pending.

Congress opened a bitter inquest regarding the group, demanding
accountability and a definition of ICANN's actual responsibilities.
Congress
is even threatening not to renew the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)
that
gives ICANN a license to operate.

Former chairwoman and once-ardent defender of ICANN Esther Dyson
pronounced
the current organization "nothing but juvenile" and "a real cesspool."

Critics claim the group has too much power. Directors claim it has no
power
at all. Supporters say the group is hampered by its attempts to appease
too
many stakeholders. Critics say it successfully caters to the needs of no
one.

And of course, critics also say that the organization's semi-secret
meetings
breed distrust and a lack of accountability. Supporters moan that all
the
group does is meet and talk endlessly, never making decisions or putting
its
lengthy proposals into action. When the group does get down to business,
we
end up with new TLDs like ".aero," ".museum," and ".coop." If I ever
visit a
".coop" (reserved for co-operatives) in my life, I'll be shocked‹though
the
poultry industry really needs to hop on chicken.coop.

Even the ".name" TLD, which was supposed to be limited to personal
firstname.lastname.name URLs, already has become corrupted beyond
belief.
Users have registered thousands of bogus sites, from
greenbay.packers.name
to sharper.image.name to santa.santa.name.

But annoying TLD issues are almost beside the point. The big question is
what's going to happen when the bloated, power-mad organization does
something that can't be cleaned up so easily. ICANN has only been around
since 1998, and for almost a quarter of that time, it's been mired in
"reform." The current operating budget is about triple the estimate of
the
original MOU (those jaunts to Ghana don't come cheap!).

At a mere 7,000 words, the latest ICANN reform document proposes a
blistering series of changes, full of non-voting liaisons and advisory
committees. Not surprisingly, Internet discussion has now centered on
whether to scrap the whole thing and start from scratch. At this point,
it
isn't such a bad idea. Why not socialize the ICANN experiment? As
loathsome
as it sounds, even the IRS runs better than this.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----

Christopher is editor-in-chief of New Architect. He is the former
executive
editor of Smart Business magazine and managing reviews editor of LAN
Times
magazine, and has held several positions in software development and IT
management. Contact Chris at [email-masked].

- ------ End of Forwarded Message

For archives see:
http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:00:58 +0200
From: "List monitor and GA chair." <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

Dear all,

during the last two days, the list climate has deteriorated  
dramatically. This is a reminder to all participants that this is a  
forum with rules:

  The following rules apply to content of messages on the GA list:
  - The messages must be relevant to the business of the GA
  - The messages must observe a minimum of decorum, including:
    - Not indulging in personal attacks, insults or slander
    - Not using offensive language
    
  - If the GA Chair or a list monitor asks for a limit to the number 
    of posts per person per day, this must be respected
    
  - The size of messages should be kept reasonable (there should be a 
    VERY good reason to send a message of more than 10 Kbytes).

(from http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html)

We hope that we can quickly return to a GA list where all  
participants respect this set of rules and stop all personal attacks 
and insults *IMMEDIATELY*. Those people who keep disrespecting these 
rules -- a minimum of decorum -- will be put under moderation, as a  
mild form of what's suggested in the blueprint for reform.

This warning is directed in particular at the following people:

- -- JOE SIMS for personal attacks ("hoping to rescue an otherwise 
   unimpressive career by finding a niche where you can be 
   perceived as the expert";"Junk like the stuff you post";
   "the real sneers here from serious people are reserved for 
   folks like you")

- -- ERIC DIERKER for personal attacks ("self aggrandizing jackass") 
   and offensive language ("shitty advice")

- -- JEFF FIELD for offensive personal attacks ("arrogant asshole")

- -- JIM FLEMING for breaking the posting limit (Jim Fleming has
   recently received warnings for off-topic postings; this is
   the last warning)

Please don't reply to this message.  Thank you!

Alexander Svensson                             Thomas Roessler
  (List Monitor)                                    (Chair)
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 13:21:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Baptista <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, List monitor and GA chair. wrote:

> (from http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html)
>
> We hope that we can quickly return to a GA list where all
> participants respect this set of rules and stop all personal attacks
> and insults *IMMEDIATELY*. Those people who keep disrespecting these
> rules -- a minimum of decorum -- will be put under moderation, as a
> mild form of what's suggested in the blueprint for reform.
>
> This warning is directed in particular at the following people:
>
> -- JOE SIMS for personal attacks ("hoping to rescue an otherwise
>    unimpressive career by finding a niche where you can be
>    perceived as the expert";"Junk like the stuff you post";
>    "the real sneers here from serious people are reserved for
>    folks like you")
>
> -- ERIC DIERKER for personal attacks ("self aggrandizing jackass")
>    and offensive language ("shitty advice")
>
> -- JEFF FIELD for offensive personal attacks ("arrogant asshole")
>
> -- JIM FLEMING for breaking the posting limit (Jim Fleming has
>    recently received warnings for off-topic postings; this is
>    the last warning)

wait a minute - why was not i mentioned.  i think i called joe sims
something nauty.  at the very least i desearve an honorable mention - do i
not?

regards
joe baptista

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:27:59 -0700
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] Offensive language

When an exchange is equal between two American English speakers and it
appears rough and tumble to a ESL German native, it should be monitored
by American English speakers.

We must remain sensitive to cultures and suggestions of vulgarity from
one culture that is not vulgar in the other is completely
discriminatory.  I have recently been chastised for language that has
many times been used in my many legislatures and in decorum such as
court rooms.

Because I speak with an openness accustomed to a South-western American
I am being threatened and told my use of my native tongue in accordance
with our culture is wrong.  This is a hate thing and it is wrong.
AS and TR have not a clue what is offensive when I am on a Horse in
Winslow Arizona with Navajo shephards or what is offensive when I am
fishing in the Mekong Delta.  I am sure they do not know what is
offensive in an Internet Room/Bar in Sidney or the Parliament in
England.

You people have no right to judge my language in American English.  I
have a degree in Linguistic Philosophy from Northern Arizona University
and a Degree in Law from California Western School of Law and you two
are going to judge what is right to say in my culture?  I have studied
language in the American Universities in Puebla Mexico and Paris France,
I have studied directly under Salinger and Kissinger and you have the
gaul to tell me what is proper language.

This is direct censorship by threat, something which is unacceptable in
the WIPO and WTO and EU and all international standards. It is a direct
violation of about fifteen BTAs that I am aware of.

this is exactly why Danny is fighting a losing battle in ICANN there are
these weird folks running around infringing upon free speech so no
voices are really being heard. This is a matter of right and wrong and
book burning.  You are operating under a contract with the US government
and operating under a license from The Great State of California and
Under Permission of the IRS, I will nail your scrawny censoring
derrières in all courts wich maintain jurisdiction in these matters.  If
you want to subject ICANN to this type of liability with your clearly
implied threats, go ahead and keep it up.  I ain't like Karl I am not
patient.  I will not tolerate the abuse of one of my self evident truths
of free speech.  And if a government body, or one of it's contractors
interferes therein I will defend my constitution and the mandate of the
UN as I have sworn to do.

Review even your own supreme court's decision as to what is offensive or
considered a personal attack.

Most Sincerely,
eric

Please review the threats at;
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc10/msg03478.html

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:03:44 -0700
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [ga] Point of error

Fellow members that have a sense of conscience,

Our two chairs are a wonderful point of weakness for our board.

We can split our board through the liability caused by the hate and bias
caused by our chairs.
All we need do is get our people to write our BoD members independently
about their abuse of stakeholder involvement and the liability created
by allowing such activity.

They have two choices;
Shut down the GA and reveal no Voice or;
Support AS and TR and show no Voice

We now have their proverbial butts to the wall.  Oops Butt may be
offensive.

e

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:22:00 +0000
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its proposals..."

Jonathan Cohen wrote:

[cc: trimmed, but BoD kept]

>
>And will those who disagree stop villifying, name calling ,cheap shotting
>because they dont get their way.Will people from 'some ' country stop
>invoking its world view on every aspect of ICANN and the Internet.Will
>,those who dont like directions or decisions of ICANN stop whining to
>Congress or the DOC,will they take the time to check their facts,.Bob Dylan
>said it in a song a long time ago .....''try spending a day in our shoes''
>,as VOLUNTEERS, at considerable personal cost in time,energy and MONEY!!Try
>listening to the push and pull from every direction,the criticism,the
>Politics,the Rhetoric, name calling AND WORSE,while you try to do the Best
>Job you can.Noone on the Board expects sympathy or "flowers"...But it would
>sure be refreshing to get some 'Balance'and some decent debate ,where if 
>you
>dont win you shake hands and try again later...But maybe thats ''culturally
>biased''  see you around the "Ranch"
>

I will try to provide an explaination on why there seems to be an increasing 
number of people who do not agree with ICANN´s BoD and that are "whining to 
Congress or DOC".
I do not agree with them, as I disagree with the vilifying, name calling and 
the alike. I feel  I have to say this upfront in order for my later words 
not to be misunderstood.
A lot of people have tried to debate with ideas, to make comments on the 
different fora, to present their points in a democratic and polite way.
There has been very little evidence of either the NC, or the BoD, having 
listened to any of these argumentations, politely conveyed in the provided 
public fora.
Personally, I even doubt that some Board members have even read the comments 
on public fora before making a decision. I know Amadeu Abril, and I am sure 
that he did read each and every one of them, and I suspect that other 
Directors like the AtLarge Karl and Andy did, maybe a few more, but I would 
not bet on some others. Incidentally, I would be please by a post from every 
Director stating that he/she did read the postings on public fora on the 
subjects on which the Board had to take a decision.
(why do I doubt? I have witnessed the historic MdR meeting in which for the 
first (and last?) time new gTLDs have been added. It was obvious that some 
Directors have not even read the proposals they had to judge (or maybe read 
but not understood, which for me is worse)).

In the years the "moderately dissenting people" have appreciated in full the 
uselessness of their work. I would appreciate if anybody could point out an 
opinion of the Board that has been modified following substantial comment on 
a public forum.
Well, you get tired of it, and tend to stop working for nothing.
The many "moderate dissenting voices" have slowly reduced their presence. 
The food-fighters not. So the balance is changing, and there´s nothing we 
can do, except for the Board becoming more open to hear criticism and to act 
accordingly.

I have known and appreciated Danny for his contributions before becoming GA 
Chair. Then, during his chairmanship, we had the chance to talk in person. I 
have seen his position going from moderate to extreme, showing now sometimes 
a bitter attitude. Well, it is already a difficult task to herd the cats of 
the GA, but what is unbearable is to see that, once you reach consensus on 
something, it is completely disregarded. Or that the position that on paper 
is the second office in the DNSO is absolutely irrelevant in influencing 
"the way things go around here". This also explains why it is increasingly 
difficult to find volounteers to chair the GA.
How is this connected with the Board? Because the same situation is now 
being prepared for the AtLarge. The problem: how to give formal voice to the 
wide users of the Internet, avoiding the danger of having them influencing 
"the way things go around here".

In summary, I am afraid that while I agree in principle that the good 
attitude should be, as you point out, "to get some 'Balance'and some decent 
debate ,where if you dont win you shake hands and try again later", years of 
debating without having had the impression that the NC and/or the Board 
(i.e. the ones who decide) have not even listened to you or read your 
contributions push you to stop contributing.
I hope to be an isolated case, but if the Jon, the Thomas, the Alex, the 
Bret, and the many others reduce their participation due to frustration, 
guess who´s left?

Anyway, I´ll sit at the window and watch, waiting for a sign from ICANN 
(either the current one or the future one, I´m in no hurry) that to 
participate is worthed. You, Jonathan, are one of the people in the driver´s 
seat: please feel free to give, or push the Board to give, such sign at your 
earliest convenience.

Best regards
Roberto
(culturally biased, but in the other direction)

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:00:07 +0000
From: "Roberto Gaetano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN reimburse $75,000 to GAC for GAC secretariat

Joe,

You wrote:

>...  The ability of ICANN to make a quick decision to deal with an
>immediate issue is a great example of the advantages of a private sector
>body over a governmental body -- or in other words, the justification for a
>body like ICANN.
>

This is ridiculous.

There are hundreds of international committees that have Chairpersons and 
Secretariat, whose members are governments or other equally bureaucratic 
organizations, who work perfectly well.
The difference is that in committees in serious international organizations 
a member state is not allowed to say "I resign", then "Oh, well, on second 
thoughts, I don´t resign, but, guess what, you have to pay me" just to avoid 
another member to take the chairmanship.
I have followed the proceedings of hundreds of international committees, 
personally participated in several, and it is the first time that I have 
witnessed such a guignolade.
This anecdote shows exactly the opposite than what Joe claims. In fact, if 
ICANN was an international organization this thing would just not have 
happened in first place.

Incidentally, I am a little bit worried by the claim that to use funds 
collected for providing a public service in such a creative and flexible way 
is an advantage. What´s next? Funding the November elections, with the 
rationale that lobbying US Congress can be good for the future of the 
Internet? Well, for a California corporation it will be pretty normal, and 
an undoubtful advantage over an intergovernmental body.

Regards
Roberto

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karl Auerbach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RE: "The reform committee continues to refine its proposals..."

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

(I've pruned the cc-list.)

> ... I would be please by a post from every 
> Director stating that he/she did read the postings on public fora on the 
> subjects on which the Board had to take a decision.

I try to read as much as I physically can, but it is impossible to read, 
much less comprehend, all of it.

Given the ambiguities of human languages it is impossible to say that I
always "understand" what has been said - I often have to ask follow-up
questions.  To my mind it is the absence of these clarifying questions
from other ICANN BoD members and functionaries (including the DNSO NC)
that indicates that ICANN is, for the most part, not really listening.

And as a board member, I can attest that the news that is fed to the board 
by ICANN's management is highly filtered and pre-digested.

Now, one could excuse this if board members were willing to obtain 
information themselves.

		--karl--

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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:22:20 -0400
From: "Joe Sims" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [Monitor & Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fleming

<FONT face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" si=
ze=3D2><DIV>And you don't view Froomkin's attack on Jon Cohen as a personal=
 attack?&nbsp; Please, bar me from posting on this list so I am not tempted=
 to further waste my time.<BR></DIV><BR><BR><BR>Joe&nbsp;Sims<BR>Jones&nbsp=
;Day&nbsp;Reavis&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;Pogue<BR>51&nbsp;Louisiana&nbsp;Avenue&nbs=
p;NW<BR>Washington,&nbsp;D.C.&nbsp;20001<BR>Direct&nbsp;Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;1=
.202.879.3863<BR>Direct&nbsp;Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp;1.202.626.1747<BR>Mobile&nbsp;=
Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;1.703.629.3963<BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>The preceding =
e-mail message (including any attachments) contains information that may be=
 confidential, be protected by the attorney-client or other applicable priv=
ileges, or constitute non-public information. It is intended to be conveyed=
 only to the designated recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient =
of this message, please notify the sender by replying to this message and t=
hen delete it from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reprod=
uction of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and may b=
e unlawful.<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><DIV><BR></DIV><FONT col=
or=3D#990099>-----"List monitor and GA chair." &lt;roessler@does-not-exist.=
org&gt; wrote: -----<BR><BR></FONT>To: Joe Sims &lt;[email-masked]&gt;,=
 Eric Dierker &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, Jeff Field &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, =
Jim Fleming &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR>From: "List monitor and GA =
chair." &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR>Date: 08/18/2002 09:00AM<BR>=
cc: [email-masked], GA List Monitoring &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR>Subject: [=
Monitor &amp; Chair] Reminder and Final Warnings: Sims, Dierker, Field, Fle=
ming<BR><BR><BR>Dear all,<BR><BR>during the last two days, the list climate=
 has deteriorated  <BR>dramatically. This is a reminder to all participants=
 that this is a  <BR>forum with rules:<BR><BR>  The following rules apply t=
o content of messages on the GA list:<BR>  - The messages must be relevant =
to the business of the GA<BR>  - The messages must observe a minimum of dec=
orum, including:<BR>    - Not indulging in personal attacks, insults or sla=
nder<BR>    - Not using offensive language<BR>    <BR>  - If the GA Chair o=
r a list monitor asks for a limit to the number <BR>    of posts per person=
 per day, this must be respected<BR>    <BR>  - The size of messages should=
 be kept reasonable (there should be a <BR>    VERY good reason to send a m=
essage of more than 10 Kbytes).<BR><BR>(from <a href=3D"http://www.dnso.org=
/dnso/notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html" target=3Dblank>http://www.dnso.org/dnso/=
notes/2000.GA-ga-rules.html</a>)<BR><BR>We hope that we can quickly return =
to a GA list where all  <BR>participants respect this set of rules and stop=
 all personal attacks <BR>and insults *IMMEDIATELY*. Those people who keep =
disrespecting these <BR>rules -- a minimum of decorum -- will be put under =
moderation, as a  <BR>mild form of what's suggested in the blueprint for re=
form.<BR><BR>This warning is directed in particular at the following people=
:<BR><BR>-- JOE SIMS for personal attacks ("hoping to rescue an otherwise <=
BR>   unimpressive career by finding a niche where you can be <BR>   percei=
ved as the expert";"Junk like the stuff you post";<BR>   "the real sneers h=
ere from serious people are reserved for <BR>   folks like you")<BR><BR>-- =
ERIC DIERKER for personal attacks ("self aggrandizing jackass") <BR>   and =
offensive language ("shitty advice")<BR><BR>-- JEFF FIELD for offensive per=
sonal attacks ("arrogant asshole")<BR><BR>-- JIM FLEMING for breaking the p=
osting limit (Jim Fleming has<BR>   recently received warnings for off-topi=
c postings; this is<BR>   the last warning)<BR><BR>Please don't reply to th=
is message.  Thank you!<BR><BR>Alexander Svensson                          =
   Thomas Roessler<BR>  (List Monitor)                                    (=
Chair)<BR></FONT>=
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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1381
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