Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1272
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST            Friday, June 14 2002            Volume 01 : Number 1272

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:43:04 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] US Senate ICANN Hearing reports

All stakeholders, assembly members or other interested parties,

  See: http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/hearings0202.htm
Especially:  http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/061202auerbach.pdf

Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 124k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:54:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Laugh of the Day: WLS Statements by SnapNames

Hello,

Here's a link to a statement by one of their executives at a Senate
hearing:

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/061202powell.pdf

Pretty bad piece of spin. I leave it as a simple exercise for others to
pick it apart, once they stop laughing.

I don't think SnapNames and Verisign appear to "get it" -- WLS is
facing opposition to the plan amongst very *informed* people, who have
a big stake in the outcome. If it was otherwise, proponents of WLS
would be able to pick apart the arguments quite easily.

Their arguments aren't even "innovative" -- they simply borrow our
arguments and keywords, e.g. anti-trust, and attempt to spin them
against us, unsuccessfully. High school debating tactics don't cut it
in the real world -- you have to do a lot better.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:06:21 -0700
From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Laugh of the Day: WLS Statements by SnapNames

George and all,

  And here is the link to ALL fo those that testified today:
http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/hearings0202.htm

George Kirikos wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Here's a link to a statement by one of their executives at a Senate
> hearing:
>
> http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/061202powell.pdf
>
> Pretty bad piece of spin. I leave it as a simple exercise for others to
> pick it apart, once they stop laughing.
>
> I don't think SnapNames and Verisign appear to "get it" -- WLS is
> facing opposition to the plan amongst very *informed* people, who have
> a big stake in the outcome. If it was otherwise, proponents of WLS
> would be able to pick apart the arguments quite easily.
>
> Their arguments aren't even "innovative" -- they simply borrow our
> arguments and keywords, e.g. anti-trust, and attempt to spin them
> against us, unsuccessfully. High school debating tactics don't cut it
> in the real world -- you have to do a lot better.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> George Kirikos
> http://www.kirikos.com/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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Regards,

- --
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 124k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] RealVideo archive of Senate Hearing on ICANN

Hello,

I saw the link at:

http://www.fednet.net/

(today, 2:30 pm hearing)

The direct realvideo file should be:

http://www.fednet.net/ram/2002/sco061202.ram

I've not seen the entire video yet, but one person at ICANNWatch
described Verisign's position thus:

http://www.icannwatch.org/article.php?thold=-1&mode=flat&order=0&sid=797#6787

"Mr. Chairman: ICANN is going too far in being a regulator. They won't
let us implement our Waiting List Service, which should make us scads
of money. That's our only real complaint. ICANN needs reform, but the
most reform it needs is to leave us alone so we can slowly regain our
monopoly position. To hell and back with new TLDs, representation, and
proper technical coordination. Just get ICANN off our back." 

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:28:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: Laugh of the Day: WLS Statements by SnapNames

Hello,

- --- Joseph McDonald <[email-masked]> wrote:
> This is a classic, I mean *classic*, instance of George Orwell's
> Doublespeak.  It's a bit scary.  Is anyone with clue testifying to
> counter this garbage?  George?

What's scary is if they actually believe someone would believe this --
it's implying that the registrars and everyone else is conspiring
against Verisign, and makes *us* guilty of anti-trust. Hmmm, I don't
think so. SnapNames and Verisign are burning their bridges with their
statements -- all out war.

I'm a Canadian, so I'm unable to vote or effectively influence American
politics. I'd suggest many are already influencing the powers that be
in the other direction, but if not they better start fast, lest the
proponents of WLS attempt to sneak it through via political and other
less transparent means.

The NameWinners, NicGenies, and other registrars, as well as
*consumers* would lose big time if WLS goes through, and they should
advise their political representatives of that fact. They should also
point them to the quite sophisticated analyses that have been done that
rejected WLS, countering the myth that it's only the "uninformed" or
"political" who are against it.

It's flattering that they try to imitate the arguments of opponents to
WLS, but while we're often imitated, we're never duplicated. :)  The
originality of the statements made by opponents of WLS ring much truer
than the hollow double-speak produced in reply.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RealVideo archive of Senate Hearing on ICANN

Hello,

[If I post before midnight my time, it won't count against tomorrow's
quota of 5 posts!]

On the video, one of the major "successes" that was acknowledged was
that ICANN had succeeded in promoting competition, and that should be
maintained as part of its mission.

Clearly, WLS would be anti-competitive -- it reduces consumer choice,
creates monopoly rents for its operators, and destroys existing
competitors and innovation at the registrar-level with regards to
expired names, by leveraging the existing registry monopoly. 

I would hope that after viewing the video, the DNSO transfers task, the
Names Council, and the ICANN board itself evaluate WLS and other
proposals as to their impact on competition.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:03:16 -0500
From: Andy Gardner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Verisign moving to proprietary system for DNS

http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/133242_06-10-2002.html

- -- 
Andrew P. Gardner
barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP?
We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare?
Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:09:59 -0700
From: Loren Stocker <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [Laugh of the Day: WLS Statements by SnapNames]

Yes!

It's the part where they spin their "innovative technolgy" that proves that
they just don't get it.

The hammer was "innovative technology" in its time. No one was opposed to the
hammer. And we all love SnapName's "innovative technolgy" today. We just
object to being beat over the head with it!

Best, Loren

George Kirikos <[email-masked]> wrote:
Hello,

Here's a link to a statement by one of their executives at a Senate
hearing:

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/061202powell.pdf

Pretty bad piece of spin. I leave it as a simple exercise for others to
pick it apart, once they stop laughing.

I don't think SnapNames and Verisign appear to "get it" -- WLS is
facing opposition to the plan amongst very *informed* people, who have
a big stake in the outcome. If it was otherwise, proponents of WLS
would be able to pick apart the arguments quite easily.

Their arguments aren't even "innovative" -- they simply borrow our
arguments and keywords, e.g. anti-trust, and attempt to spin them
against us, unsuccessfully. High school debating tactics don't cut it
in the real world -- you have to do a lot better.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Wesson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RealVideo archive of Senate Hearing on ICANN

What I didn't get was:

  o what was Snap Names there for?
  o why didn't any of you give any testimony?

do only the well connected get to present congress their point of view?

- -rick

On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, George Kirikos wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I saw the link at:
>
> http://www.fednet.net/
>
> (today, 2:30 pm hearing)
>
> The direct realvideo file should be:
>
> http://www.fednet.net/ram/2002/sco061202.ram
>
> I've not seen the entire video yet, but one person at ICANNWatch
> described Verisign's position thus:
>
> http://www.icannwatch.org/article.php?thold=-1&mode=flat&order=0&sid=797#6787
>
> "Mr. Chairman: ICANN is going too far in being a regulator. They won't
> let us implement our Waiting List Service, which should make us scads
> of money. That's our only real complaint. ICANN needs reform, but the
> most reform it needs is to leave us alone so we can slowly regain our
> monopoly position. To hell and back with new TLDs, representation, and
> proper technical coordination. Just get ICANN off our back."
>
> Sincerely,
>
> George Kirikos
> http://www.kirikos.com/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> --
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kirikos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RealVideo archive of Senate Hearing on ICANN

Hi Rick,

- --- Rick Wesson <[email-masked]> wrote:
> What I didn't get was:
> 
>   o what was Snap Names there for?
>   o why didn't any of you give any testimony?
> 
> do only the well connected get to present congress their point of
> view?

Seems like it....welcome to US politics, and Verisign attempting to do
an end run around ICANN, to implement WLS.

I had a question for you -- as one of the people against WLS, are you
in the "uninformed" camp, or the "competitor of SnapNames" camp?? ;)

Given I'm not one of their competitors, presumably I must be severely
uninformed....there couldn't actually be good reasons against WLS,
could there??!???! ;)

Just a monkey tapping randomly at the keyboard, according to some,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Wesson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] RealVideo archive of Senate Hearing on ICANN

> I had a question for you -- as one of the people against WLS, are you
> in the "uninformed" camp, or the "competitor of SnapNames" camp?? ;)

Alice's does not provide services that compete against SnapNames; I
decided early on that I wouldn't participate while leading the discussion
for the Registrars. I wanted to try to be independant.

> Given I'm not one of their competitors, presumably I must be severely
> uninformed....there couldn't actually be good reasons against WLS,
> could there??!???! ;)

sure, you could be uninformed, and there may also be good reasons against
WLS.

- -rick

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:25:48 +0900
From: "YJ Park" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] .org bidders?

> UnityRegistry (Poptel + AusRegistry)
>   http://www.unityregistry.org/
>   http://www.poptel.coop
>   http://www.ausregistry.com.au/
>
> NeuStar/NeuLevel?
>   http://www.neustar.com
>   http://www.neulevel.biz
>   http://www.neustar.us
> 
> Register.com?
>   http://www.register.com

The above three operators are going to make a presentation during 
NCDNHC meeting in Bucharest. If you are interested in this meeting
you are always welcomed to join this meeting.

> Internet Society + Afilias
>   http://www.isoc.org
>   http://www.afilias.info
>   (see http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc10/msg01921.html)

It has been known that ISOC is to make a bid for .ORG.

> Global Name Registry?
>   (http://www.orgbid.org)
>   --> Registrant: Hakon Haugnes, GNR Co-Founder
>   http://www.gnr.name

No information on this bid except the fact that they were approaching
to several NGOs to get supports.
 
> Org Alliance?
>   (http://www.orgalliance.org)
>   (http://www.org-alliance.org)
>   --> Registrant: Jin Ho Hur, 
>       Founding Chairman Asia & Pacific Internet Association (APIA)

This effort was withdrawn just after Accra meeting.

> Dot Org Alliance?
>   (http://www.dotorgalliance.org)
>   --> Registrant: Mike Roberts, former ICANN CEO

More Info on further ORG-Alliance efforts

Then there was two-month efforts to create a non-commercial registry
among some NGOs and volunteers starting from late-March. It was 
named after ORG-Alliance early May and then it was decided to dissolve 
the initiative due to realistic constraints late May. This effort was not
associated with any previous ORG-Alliance efforts except the domain
name, org-alliance.org, which was provided from the current domain name 
holder for the web site purpose.

Regards,
YJ

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:19:48 -0400
From: "Mike Mann /BuyDomains.com" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: [Laugh of the Day: WLS Statements by SnapNames]

We should keep in mind that Senator Allen is owned by NSI and to a lesser 
degree .biz - since they both inhabit his territory and undoubtedly pay 
lots of lawyer and lobbyist friends of the senator. I imagine his only 
interest is protecting his political supporters and the tax base of Virginia.

At 02:09 AM 6/13/2002, Loren Stocker wrote:
>Yes!
>
>It's the part where they spin their "innovative technolgy" that proves that
>they just don't get it.
>
>The hammer was "innovative technology" in its time. No one was opposed to the
>hammer. And we all love SnapName's "innovative technolgy" today. We just
>object to being beat over the head with it!
>
>Best, Loren
>
>
>
>George Kirikos <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Here's a link to a statement by one of their executives at a Senate
>hearing:
>
>http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/061202powell.pdf
>
>Pretty bad piece of spin. I leave it as a simple exercise for others to
>pick it apart, once they stop laughing.
>
>I don't think SnapNames and Verisign appear to "get it" -- WLS is
>facing opposition to the plan amongst very *informed* people, who have
>a big stake in the outcome. If it was otherwise, proponents of WLS
>would be able to pick apart the arguments quite easily.
>
>Their arguments aren't even "innovative" -- they simply borrow our
>arguments and keywords, e.g. anti-trust, and attempt to spin them
>against us, unsuccessfully. High school debating tactics don't cut it
>in the real world -- you have to do a lot better.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>George Kirikos
>http://www.kirikos.com/
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 03:02:11 -0400
From: "Mike Mann /BuyDomains.com" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: SnapNames' testimony before the Senate

I just listened to Cameron's testimony - that is the biggest crock of shit 
I have ever heard. He is complaining about "speculators and cybersquatters" 
- - ie the people that pay his salary. Talking about open markets while 
trying to close them with NSI. Talking about consumers being unable to use 
their superior technology because of ICANN - people are using their 
technology which is just a bunch of buying scripts - if its superior they 
get paid for acquiring the name - if not the market speaks. So one has to 
wonder how our partner and competitor and the big NSI monopoly got to lie 
in Senate testimony and the other registrars didnt get an offer to tell the 
truth? The answer - Senator Allen of Virginia doing a favor for his buddies 
at Verisign - business as usual in DC. We are being scammed.

At 01:16 AM 6/13/2002, George Kirikos wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>If you watched the video, SnapNames has been positioning itself as the great
>innovator that is being blocked by ICANN from introducing its "great
>technology" (WLS) that will benefit consumers. Ridiculous to anyone who is
>informed on the issues, but the head of that senate committee seems to have
>bought it hook, line and sinker, and was sympathetic (watch the entire
>video). (watch the entire thing, especially the end --- it's appalling).
>
>I'd encourage you and other opponents of WLS to get involved at the
>political level, as they said they're "taking seriously" that fact that
>SnapNames had layoffs, etc. due to ICANN (I'm in Canada, so can't do much to
>affect US politics). Talk about what the impact of WLS would be on your
>firms, etc. in terms of layoffs, and especially on consumer impact as higher
>prices. With political donations, SnapNames and Verisign might have bought
>some of their support, to try to win things at the political level behind
>closed doors. *Extremely sneaky* and should be flushed out, so that the
>government is aware how self-serving their propoganda has been.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>George Kirikos
>416-588-0269
>
>P.S. The link to the video is at:
>http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc10/msg02126.html

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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:13:23 -0400
From: "John Berryhill" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] WLS Questions

I'm trying to understand this notion of how a monopoly WLS, which guarantees
only one person a crack at an expiring name, is "fair" relative to multiple
competing services, and would appreciate hearing from someone who (a)
believes it is fair, and (b) is not associated with SnapNames or Verisign.

Chuck Gomes has said that something like 50% of SnapNames customers are
speculators instead of "average" domain name registrants.  Leaving aside the
question of how a population of 50% of anything is not "average", or the
methodology used to read the minds of the other 50% to determine their
motivation, then can someone clue me in to how 50% of WLS position holders
are NOT going to be speculators?

Snapbacks are $69 a pop, and we are told half of them are owned by
speculators.  So, the point here is that SnapNames wants to have 50% fewer
customers?  Or they want to charge 100% of them twice as much money in order
to get rid of the "bad" customers while keeping the "good" customers?

And with the "price high enough to discourage speculation" idea, what is the
evidence that speculators don't have more money than these "average"
registrants for whom we are trying to make things "fair"?

And if we aren't going to have a dispute resolution procedure for people who
take up WLS slots on expiring domain names that are someone else's
trademarks, then what is the point of making the identity of WLS slot
holders known?

I have to take my hat off to the guy with enough chutzpah to tell a Senate
subcommittee that ICANN was strangling consumer choice and competition by
refusing to introduce a monopoly service that would replace several
competing services to do the same thing.  Doing that and avoiding dizziness
at the same time is an admirable feat.

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End of GA-DIGEST V1 #1272
*************************