Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #1217
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST           Thursday, May 23 2002           Volume 01 : Number 1217

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Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:15:01 -0700
From: "William S. Lovell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] The  Real World

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The following should be of more than passing interest:

"The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
(ICANN) was set up in 1998 to oversee several important
functions that keep the Internet running. Ever since, it has been
 criticized for lack of accountability and openness.  In February,
 its current President, M Stuart Lynn, issued a manifesto
claiming that ICANN was seriously broken and proposing a
complete reform.  Although many concede that ICANN has
failed, few agree with Lynn's specific proposals, which
essentially call for a rebuilt organization with three to five
times the budget, more than 50 percent additional staff
and greater power.  Critics argue that this plan will create
a single point of failure, the very thing the Internet's design
sought to avoid.

The upshot has been to reopen the intense debates that
preceded ICANN's formation. Even former pacifists,
including Peter G. Neumann, who moderates the online
bulletin board RISKS Forum, and Lauren Weinstein of
People for Internet Responsibility, are taking sides.  They
say that an immediate handover to a less political, more
strictly technical organization, such as the Internet
Architecture Board, is necessary to avoid a meltdown."

"Need to Know: ICANN CAN'T," Scientific American,
June 2002, p. 21.

Bill Lovell

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The following should be of more than passing interest:<br>
<br>
"The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers<br>
(ICANN) was set up in 1998 to oversee several important <br>
functions that keep the Internet running. Ever since, it has been<br>
&nbsp;criticized for lack of accountability and openness. &nbsp;In February,<br>
&nbsp;its current President, M Stuart Lynn, issued a manifesto <br>
claiming that ICANN was seriously broken and proposing a <br>
complete reform. &nbsp;Although many concede that ICANN has <br>
failed, few agree with Lynn's specific proposals, which <br>
essentially call for a rebuilt organization with three to five <br>
times the budget, more than 50 percent additional staff <br>
and greater power. &nbsp;Critics argue that this plan will create <br>
a single point of failure, the very thing the Internet's design <br>
sought to avoid.<br>
<br>
The upshot has been to reopen the intense debates that <br>
preceded ICANN's formation. Even former pacifists,<br>
including Peter G. Neumann, who moderates the online <br>
bulletin board RISKS Forum, and Lauren Weinstein of <br>
People for Internet Responsibility, are taking sides. &nbsp;They <br>
say that an immediate handover to a less political, more <br>
strictly technical organization, such as the Internet <br>
Architecture Board, is necessary to avoid a meltdown."<br>
<br>
"Need to Know: ICANN CAN'T,"&nbsp;<i>Scientific American</i>, <br>
June 2002, p. 21.<br>
<br>
Bill Lovell<br>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:32:21 -0700
From: "William S. Lovell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: WLS Conference Call

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William X Walsh wrote:

>Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 7:00:20 AM, todd glassey wrote:
>
>>Wait List Services are probably inherently illegal at some level (or should
>>be)  since there is no way that a DNS entry alone conveys the IP rights
>>around a TM or SM. This is a real sore point since I as an individual may
>>
>
>A domain name and IP rights have nothing to do with each other.
>
>And because you own IP rights does not mean you own the exclusive use
>of that phrase, word, string, in the dns or outside the dns.
>
William X. Walsh is exactly correct.  Going even further, neither do you 
"own" the "IP" in a different
meaning, i.e., the Internet Protocol number(s) to which domain names 
point.  That interaction is a
purely technical issue, and ICANN should never have stuck its globby 
head beyond that into any IP
(Intellectual Property) rights issues. What it did do need not be 
recited again here, but it has to do
with money.

Bill Lovell

>
>

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<br>
William X Walsh wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]">
  <pre wrap="">Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 7:00:20 AM, todd glassey wrote:<br><br></pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Wait List Services are probably inherently illegal at some level (or should<br>be)  since there is no way that a DNS entry alone conveys the IP rights<br>around a TM or SM. This is a real sore point since I as an individual may<br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!----><br>A domain name and IP rights have nothing to do with each other.<br><br>And because you own IP rights does not mean you own the exclusive use<br>of that phrase, word, string, in the dns or outside the dns.</pre>
    </blockquote>
William X. Walsh is exactly correct. &nbsp;Going even further, neither do you
"own" the "IP" in a different<br>
meaning, i.e., the Internet Protocol number(s) to which domain names point.
&nbsp;That interaction is a <br>
purely technical issue, and ICANN should never have stuck its globby head
beyond that into any IP <br>
(Intellectual Property) rights issues. What it <i>did</i> do need not be
recited again here, but it has to do <br>
with money.<br>
    <br>
Bill Lovell<br>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <pre wrap=""><br><br></pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      </body>
      </html>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:37:59 +0200 (CEST)
From: Marc Schneiders <[email-masked]>
Subject: Pro Deo gratification (Re: [ga] Byfield comments)

On Wed, 22 May 2002, at 19:16 [=GMT-0400], Joe Sims wrote:

> How convenient it must be to be able to sit on the sidelines and carp at
> the people trying to do the work, and then refuse to offer alternatives
> because they might not be accepted.

Professor Michael Froomkin pointed out in a clear way, that, unlike you,
the people you are blaming here, are volunteers, who have to do the things
you ask of them in their spare time, and pro Deo. Ted Byfield made a
similar point. It may be hard to imagine for a lawyer, but knowing that
chances of success to 'win' are small indeed does stop volunteers (not
remunerated by the hour, but by the gratification of results) in their
leisure efforts. They decide to work a bit in the garden, to hug their
children more often, or to put their energy in another organization to
keep the internet stable, open and free.

> It's the ICANN version of "its my
> ball, so we will either do it my way  or I'll take my ball and go home."

Oh, I was very much under the impression, that ICANN thought it owned the
ball, can change the rules, and set the schedules, tightly if that is
convenient. How often did you change the bylaws? How long did we have to
have our say on the Verisign deal?

> And yet you still seem to sincerely wonder why you have little influence?
> Self-delusion is a powerful force.

I prefer to call it imagination. Indeed powerful.

Don't imagine that anyone is going to legitimize your coup d'etat by
participating in the bottom-up farce ICANN is organizing.

- -- 
[email-masked]

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:48:45 -0700
From: "William S. Lovell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Roessler Comments on Mission Paper

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What's going on here is all too clear: ICANN and Joe Sims are hearing 
footprints.
This is a desperate attempt by ICANN to defend its very existence, and 
to that
end, it is even (after how many years?) seeking actual advice(!) on how 
it might get
itself re-structured so as not to fall into that well-known dust bin of 
history. But the
"restructure ICANN" route, rather than a full and complete replacement, 
has one
purpose, and one purpose only, and that is to protect the positions of 
the current
ICANN people. Even so, the animus (as correctly pointed out below) is so 
intense
that even when the back is against the wall, the cornered animal will 
strike out at
those who in fact may (misguidedly, in my opinion) be trying to help ICANN
rescue itself.  A well-intentioned suggestion that departs at all from 
the box within
which ICANN is thinking is maligned and shoved aside.

However, the object here is not to protect the jobs of ICANN people; the 
object is
(finally!) to get the Internet working right, and the history of ICANN 
proves beyond
any reasonable doubt that it is utterly incapable of carrying out that 
task. No amount
of restructuring and/or reform is going to change that fundamental fact.

Bill Lovell

Joe Sims wrote:

>Here is the whole string.
>
>
>Joe Sims
>
>----- Forwarded by Joe Sims/JonesDay on 05/22/02 07:17 PM -----
>                                                                                                                   
>                    Joe Sims                                                                                       
>                    Extension            To:     "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law"                        
>                    Internal: 4-3863       <[email-masked]>                                                
>                                         cc:                                                                       
>                    05/22/02 09:51       Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler Comments on Mission Paper(Document link:   
>                    AM                     Joe Sims)                                                               
>                                                                                                                   
>                                                                                                                   
>
>
>
>Right.  That makes it all clear.
>
>
>Joe Sims
>
>
>
>                                                                                                                   
>                    "Michael                                                                                       
>                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims <[email-masked]>                                     
>                    U.Miami School       cc:                                                                       
>                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler Comments on Mission Paper                  
>                    <[email-masked]                                                                               
>                    ami.edu>                                                                                       
>                                                                                                                   
>                                                                                                                   
>                    05/22/02 09:49                                                                                 
>                    AM                                                                                             
>                                                                                                                   
>                                                                                                                   
>
>
>
>
>Writing a 'mission statement' for the grand icann is a pointless exercise.
>First you define the mission.  Then you can write the statement.
>
>
>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:
>
>>Right.  Now I understand why this particular dialogue is private.
>>
>>
>>Joe Sims
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>>                    "Michael
>>
>
>>                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims
>>
><[email-masked]>
>
>>                    U.Miami School       cc:
>>
>
>>                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler
>>
>Comments on Mission Paper
>
>>                    <[email-masked]
>>
>
>>                    ami.edu>
>>
>
>
>
>>                    05/22/02 09:47
>>
>
>>                    AM
>>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>They are a definition of a narrow mission.  That's a statement of what
>>
>the
>
>>mission should be.
>>
>>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:
>>
>>>excuse me?  is any of those a mission statement?  I understand that it
>>>
>is
>
>>>tough to keep the facts straight and maintain an unblemished record of
>>>criticism, but you might try it sometime.
>>>
>>>
>>>Joe Sims
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                    "Michael
>>>
>>>                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims
>>>
>><[email-masked]>
>>
>>>                    U.Miami School       cc:
>>>
>>>                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler
>>>
>>Comments on Mission Paper
>>
>>>                    <[email-masked]
>>>
>>>                    ami.edu>
>>>
>>>                    05/22/02 09:30
>>>
>>>                    AM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You've had Karl's, Randy Bush's, Mikki Barry's, and many others.  I
>>>
>have
>
>>>decided not to put one in.  The personal animus against me is obviously
>>>
>>so
>>
>>>great - see for example Stuart Lynn's comments in Thailand - that there
>>>seems no chance they would be taken seriously, and every chance that it
>>>would be counter-productive.
>>>
>>>As evidence of how ICANN treats those who disagree with it, I note that
>>>ICANN has not posted Karl's paper online, or linked to it, although it
>>>
>>did
>>
>>>post many other less radical submissions to the review committee.
>>>
>>>Furthermore, it's my belief that the committee appointed by ICANN is
>>>packed with people who have a fairly closed mind on the subject.  I
>>>
>think
>
>>>the chance of a fair hearing there is low.
>>>
>>>Plus, I understand you control the agenda for the upcoming secret,
>>>no-minutes Board meeting (excuse me, 'retreat') this weekend in which
>>>
>you
>
>>>will evangelize for your views.
>>>
>>>In the circumstances, I will not be submitting a draft.  I think I know
>>>what you will decide, and unlike you I don't get paid several hundred
>>>dollars per hour I spend on this.
>>>
>>>PS. Do you bill for email too?
>>>
>>>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:
>>>
>>>>As usual, Michael, lots of talk and no action.  I await your draft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Joe Sims
>>>>Jones Day Reavis & Pogue
>>>>51 Louisiana Avenue NW
>>>>Washington, D.C. 20001
>>>>Direct Phone:  1.202.879.3863
>>>>Direct Fax:  1.202.626.1747
>>>>Mobile Phone:  1.703.629.3963
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                    "Michael
>>>>
>>>>                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims
>>>>
>>><[email-masked]>
>>>
>>>>                    U.Miami School       cc:     [email-masked]
>>>>
>>>>                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga]
>>>>
>Roessler
>
>>>Comments on Mission Paper
>>>
>>>>                    <[email-masked]
>>>>
>>>>                    ami.edu>
>>>>
>>>>                    05/22/02 09:15
>>>>
>>>>                    AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's been done many times: you just don't like to admit it.
>>>>
>>>>Writing a mission statement is easy when the mission is small.  You
>>>>
>>want
>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>>big client.  Your client wants to be big.  They ignore the contrary
>>>>voices, and you come along to shoot the wounded by saying they don't
>>>>exist.
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>While these are cogent comments, they do illustrate the difficulty
>>>>>
>of
>
>>>>>actually writing something called a "mission statement" that is
>>>>>
>both
>
>>>>>something more than a listing of specific acts that are permissible
>>>>>
>>>>(which
>>>>
>>>>>is certainly not a mission statement that would be useful on a
>>>>>
>going
>
>>>>>forward basis) and writing something less specific that is not
>>>>>
>>subject
>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>>the kind of word-smithing that Thomas has done.  I renew the
>>>>>
>>invitation
>>
>>>>>that ICANN has made for several months now:  If anyone thinks they
>>>>>
>>can
>>
>>>>>write a better mission statement, please do so.  There seem to be a
>>>>>
>>lot
>>
>>>>>more editors than authors in the ICANN population.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe Sims
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
>>>>>Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
>>>>>("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
>>>>>Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>                     Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
>>>>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
>>>>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
>>>>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>>>>                        -->It's hot here.<--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>==========
>>>>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
>>>>information that may be confidential, be protected by the
>>>>
>>attorney-client
>>
>>>>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.
>>>>
>>It
>>
>>>>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If
>>>>
>you
>
>>>are
>>>
>>>>not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender
>>>>
>by
>
>>>>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,
>>>>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by
>>>>
>>>unintended
>>>
>>>>recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
>>>>==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>                     Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
>>>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
>>>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
>>>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>>>                        -->It's hot here.<--
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>==========
>>>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
>>>information that may be confidential, be protected by the
>>>
>attorney-client
>
>>>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.
>>>
>It
>
>>>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you
>>>
>>are
>>
>>>not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by
>>>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,
>>>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by
>>>
>>unintended
>>
>>>recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
>>>==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>                     Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
>>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
>>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
>>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>>                        -->It's hot here.<--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>==========
>>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
>>information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client
>>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.  It
>>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you
>>
>are
>
>>not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by
>>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,
>>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by
>>
>unintended
>
>>recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
>>==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>                     Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>                        -->It's hot here.<--
>
>
>
>
>
>==========
>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
>information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client
>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.  It
>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you are
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>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,
>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended
>recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
>==========
>
>
>
>
>==========
>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains
>information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client
>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.  It
>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you are
>not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by
>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,
>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended
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>==========
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What's going on here is all too clear: ICANN and Joe Sims are hearing footprints.<br>
This is a desperate attempt by ICANN to defend its very existence, and to
that<br>
end, it is even (after how many years?) seeking <i>actual advice</i>(!) on
how it might get<br>
itself re-structured so as not to fall into that well-known dust bin of history.
But the<br>
"restructure ICANN" route, rather than a full and complete replacement, has
one<br>
purpose, and one purpose only, and that is to protect the positions of the
current<br>
ICANN people. Even so, the animus (as correctly pointed out below) is so
intense<br>
that even when the back is against the wall, the cornered animal will strike
out at<br>
those who in fact may (misguidedly, in my opinion) be trying to help ICANN
<br>
rescue itself. &nbsp;A well-intentioned suggestion that departs at all from the
box within<br>
which ICANN is thinking is maligned and shoved aside.<br>
<br>
However, the object here is not to protect the jobs of ICANN people; the
object is<br>
(<i>finally</i>!) to get the Internet working right, and the history of ICANN
proves beyond<br>
any reasonable doubt that it is utterly incapable of carrying out that task.
No amount<br>
of restructuring and/or reform is going to change that fundamental fact.<br>
<br>
Bill Lovell<br>
<br>
Joe Sims wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]">
  <pre wrap="">Here is the whole string.<br><br><br>Joe Sims<br><br>----- Forwarded by Joe Sims/JonesDay on 05/22/02 07:17 PM -----<br>                                                                                                                   <br>                    Joe Sims                                                                                       <br>                    Extension            To:     "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law"                        <br>                    Internal: 4-3863       <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>                                                <br>                                         cc:                                                                       <br>                    05/22/02 09:51       Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler Comments on Mission Paper(Document link:   <br>                    AM                     Joe Sims)        
                                                       <br>                                                                                                                   <br>                                                                                                                   <br><br><br><br>Right.  That makes it all clear.<br><br><br>Joe Sims<br><br><br><br>                                                                                                                   <br>                    "Michael                                                                                       <br>                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>                                     <br>                    U.Miami School       cc:                                                                       <br>                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga
] Roessler Comments on Mission Paper                  <br>                    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>                                                                               <br>                    ami.edu&gt;                                                                                       <br>                                                                                                                   <br>                                                                                                                   <br>                    05/22/02 09:49                                                                                 <br>                    AM                                                                                             <br>                                                                                                                   <br>                       
                                                                                            <br><br><br><br><br>Writing a 'mission statement' for the grand icann is a pointless exercise.<br>First you define the mission.  Then you can write the statement.<br><br><br>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:<br><br></pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Right.  Now I understand why this particular dialogue is private.<br><br><br>Joe Sims<br><br><br><br><br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">                    "Michael<br></pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims<br></pre>
        </blockquote>
        <pre wrap=""><!----><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br></pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre wrap="">                    U.Miami School       cc:<br></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler<br></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <pre wrap=""><!---->Comments on Mission Paper<br></pre>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <pre wrap="">                    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br></pre>
              </blockquote>
              <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <pre wrap="">                    ami.edu&gt;<br></pre>
                </blockquote>
                <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <pre wrap="">                    05/22/02 09:47<br></pre>
                  </blockquote>
                  <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <pre wrap="">                    AM<br></pre>
                    </blockquote>
                    <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                    <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                    <pre wrap=""><!----><br></pre>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <pre wrap=""><br><br><br><br>They are a definition of a narrow mission.  That's a statement of what<br></pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <pre wrap=""><!---->the<br></pre>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <pre wrap="">mission should be.<br><br>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:<br><br></pre>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <pre wrap="">excuse me?  is any of those a mission statement?  I understand that it<br></pre>
                          </blockquote>
                          </blockquote>
                          <pre wrap=""><!---->is<br></pre>
                          <blockquote type="cite">
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <pre wrap="">tough to keep the facts straight and maintain an unblemished record of<br>criticism, but you might try it sometime.<br><br><br>Joe Sims<br><br><br><br><br></pre>
                              </blockquote>
                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                <pre wrap="">                    "Michael<br></pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <pre wrap="">                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims<br></pre>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br></pre>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <pre wrap="">                    U.Miami School       cc:<br></pre>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                      <pre wrap="">                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga] Roessler<br></pre>
                                      </blockquote>
                                      <pre wrap="">Comments on Mission Paper<br></pre>
                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                        <pre wrap="">                    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br></pre>
                                        </blockquote>
                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                          <pre wrap="">                    ami.edu&gt;<br></pre>
                                          </blockquote>
                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                            <pre wrap="">                    05/22/02 09:30<br></pre>
                                            </blockquote>
                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                              <pre wrap="">                    AM<br></pre>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <pre wrap=""><br><br><br>You've had Karl's, Randy Bush's, Mikki Barry's, and many others.  I<br></pre>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <pre wrap=""><!---->have<br></pre>
                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                    <pre wrap="">decided not to put one in.  The personal animus against me is obviously<br></pre>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                    <pre wrap="">so<br></pre>
                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                      <pre wrap="">great - see for example Stuart Lynn's comments in Thailand - that there<br>seems no chance they would be taken seriously, and every chance that it<br>would be counter-productive.<br><br>As evidence of how ICANN treats those who disagree with it, I note that<br>ICANN has not posted Karl's paper online, or linked to it, although it<br></pre>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                      <pre wrap="">did<br></pre>
                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                        <pre wrap="">post many other less radical submissions to the review committee.<br><br>Furthermore, it's my belief that the committee appointed by ICANN is<br>packed with people who have a fairly closed mind on the subject.  I<br></pre>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                        <pre wrap=""><!---->think<br></pre>
                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                            <pre wrap="">the chance of a fair hearing there is low.<br><br>Plus, I understand you control the agenda for the upcoming secret,<br>no-minutes Board meeting (excuse me, 'retreat') this weekend in which<br></pre>
                                                            </blockquote>
                                                            </blockquote>
                                                            <pre wrap=""><!---->you<br></pre>
                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                <pre wrap="">will evangelize for your views.<br><br>In the circumstances, I will not be submitting a draft.  I think I know<br>what you will decide, and unlike you I don't get paid several hundred<br>dollars per hour I spend on this.<br><br>PS. Do you bill for email too?<br><br>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:<br><br></pre>
                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                  <pre wrap="">As usual, Michael, lots of talk and no action.  I await your draft.<br><br><br>Joe Sims<br>Jones Day Reavis &amp; Pogue<br>51 Louisiana Avenue NW<br>Washington, D.C. 20001<br>Direct Phone:  1.202.879.3863<br>Direct Fax:  1.202.626.1747<br>Mobile Phone:  1.703.629.3963<br><br><br><br></pre>
                                                                  </blockquote>
                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                    <pre wrap="">                    "Michael<br></pre>
                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                      <pre wrap="">                    Froomkin -           To:     Joe Sims<br></pre>
                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                      <pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br></pre>
                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                        <pre wrap="">                    U.Miami School       cc:     <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br></pre>
                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                          <pre wrap="">                    of Law"              Subject:     Re: [ga]<br></pre>
                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                          <pre wrap=""><!---->Roessler<br></pre>
                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                              <pre wrap="">Comments on Mission Paper<br></pre>
                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                <pre wrap="">                    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br></pre>
                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                  <pre wrap="">                    ami.edu&gt;<br></pre>
                                                                                  </blockquote>
                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                    <pre wrap="">                    05/22/02 09:15<br></pre>
                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                      <pre wrap="">                    AM<br></pre>
                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                        <pre wrap=""><br><br><br>It's been done many times: you just don't like to admit it.<br><br>Writing a mission statement is easy when the mission is small.  You<br></pre>
                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                        <pre wrap="">want<br></pre>
                                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                          <pre wrap="">a<br></pre>
                                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                            <pre wrap="">big client.  Your client wants to be big.  They ignore the contrary<br>voices, and you come along to shoot the wounded by saying they don't<br>exist.<br><br>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Joe Sims wrote:<br><br></pre>
                                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                              <pre wrap="">While these are cogent comments, they do illustrate the difficulty<br></pre>
                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                              <pre wrap=""><!---->of<br></pre>
                                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                      <pre wrap="">actually writing something called a "mission statement" that is<br></pre>
                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                      <pre wrap=""><!---->both<br></pre>
                                                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">something more than a listing of specific acts that are permissible<br></pre>
                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">(which<br></pre>
                                                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                <pre wrap="">is certainly not a mission statement that would be useful on a<br></pre>
                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                <pre wrap=""><!---->going<br></pre>
                                                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                        <pre wrap="">forward basis) and writing something less specific that is not<br></pre>
                                                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                                                        <pre wrap="">subject<br></pre>
                                                                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                          <pre wrap="">to<br></pre>
                                                                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">the kind of word-smithing that Thomas has done.  I renew the<br></pre>
                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">invitation<br></pre>
                                                                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">that ICANN has made for several months now:  If anyone thinks they<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">can<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                          <pre wrap="">write a better mission statement, please do so.  There seem to be a<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                          <pre wrap="">lot<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                <pre wrap="">more editors than authors in the ICANN population.<br><br><br>Joe Sims<br><br><br><br>--<br>This message was passed to you via the <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> list.<br>Send mail to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> to unsubscribe<br>("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).<br>Archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dnso.org/archives.html">http://www.dnso.org/archives.html</a><br><br><br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                <pre wrap="">--<br>                     Please visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.icannwatch.org">http://www.icannwatch.org</a><br>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA<br>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.law.tm">http://www.law.tm</a><br>                        --&gt;It's hot here.&lt;--<br><br><br><br><br><br>==========<br>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains<br>information that may be confidential, be protected by the<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                <pre wrap="">attorney-client<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">It<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                        <pre wrap="">is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                        </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                        <pre wrap=""><!---->you<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                            <pre wrap="">are<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                              <pre wrap=""><!---->by<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,<br>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">unintended<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                      <pre wrap="">recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.<br>==========<br><br><br><br><br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                      <pre wrap="">--<br>                     Please visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.icannwatch.org">http://www.icannwatch.org</a><br>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA<br>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.law.tm">http://www.law.tm</a><br>                        --&gt;It's hot here.&lt;--<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>==========<br>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains<br>information that may be confidential, be protected by the<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                      <pre wrap=""><!---->attorney-client<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                          <pre wrap="">or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                          </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                          <pre wrap=""><!---->It<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                              </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                              <pre wrap="">are<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                                <pre wrap="">not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by<br>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,<br>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                                <pre wrap="">unintended<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                                  <pre wrap="">recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.<br>==========<br><br><br><br><br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                  </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                                  <pre wrap="">--<br>                     Please visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.icannwatch.org">http://www.icannwatch.org</a><br>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA<br>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.law.tm">http://www.law.tm</a><br>                        --&gt;It's hot here.&lt;--<br><br><br><br><br><br>==========<br>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains<br>information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client<br>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.  It<br>is i
ntended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                  </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                                  <pre wrap=""><!---->are<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap="">not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by<br>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,<br>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                    </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                                    <pre wrap=""><!---->unintended<br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                                                                                                                                                                      <pre wrap="">recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.<br>==========<br><br><br><br><br></pre>
                                                                                                                                                                                      </blockquote>
                                                                                                                                                                                      <pre wrap=""><!----><br>--<br>                     Please visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.icannwatch.org">http://www.icannwatch.org</a><br>A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA<br>+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.law.tm">http://www.law.tm</a><br>                        --&gt;It's hot here.&lt;--<br><br><br><br><br><br>==========<br>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains<br>information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client<br>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public informati
on.  It<br>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you are<br>not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by<br>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,<br>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended<br>recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.<br>==========<br><br><br><br><br>==========<br>The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains<br>information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client<br>or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information.  It<br>is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s).  If you are<br>not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by<br>replying to this message and then delete it from your system.  Use,<br>dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended<br>recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.<br>==
========<br><br><br><br>--<br>This message was passed to you via the <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> list.<br>Send mail to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> to unsubscribe<br>("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).<br>Archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dnso.org/archives.html">http://www.dnso.org/archives.html</a><br><br><br></pre>
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