Subject: GA-DIGEST V1 #5
From: [email-masked] (GA-DIGEST)
To: [email-masked]

GA-DIGEST          Friday, February 18 2000          Volume 01 : Number 005

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:23:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

Tyranny of the majority.   How to silence dissent. 
That would suffice to get even me to leave the list.  (Not to mention all
the noise traffic it would generate).

The point of protecting dissenting voices is exactly that they are
unpopular.  Popular voices don't require protection.

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alex Kamantauskas wrote:

> 
>  How about the following process:
> 
>  SAA receives a complaint.  SAA announces the complaint, and issues a
>  request wherein each member of the list (if they so wish) sends in a
>  'yea' or 'nay' vote.  At the end of an established period (say, 24 or 48
>  hours), SAA counts the votes.  If the 'yea' outweigh the 'nay', sanctions
>  are imposed.
> 

- -- 

A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
+1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
                        -->It's warm here.<--

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:49:05 -0800
From: "Roeland M.J. Meyer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Proposal: List behavior discussions on a separat list.

IMHO, we have gotten beyond the point where mailer-lists are scalable and
the reason why UseNet was developed in the first place. Someone needs to set
up an INN server for this crap.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Roberto
> Gaetano
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 1:20 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] Proposal: List behavior discussions on a separat list.
>
>
> Alf,
>
> I have tried several time to launch the idea of more focused, smaller,
> lists, in addition to the main GA list, but there's no enthusiasm so
> far.
>
> In practical terms, it will be (almost) impossible to do what you
> propose "automatically". The only possibility is to create a separate
> list, and invite people to discuss the matter over there.
>
> Do you think it will work? :<(
>
> Roberto
>
>
>
> >Dear Chair and list monitor,
> >
> >I propose that the DNSO offer a special service to those with spesific
> >interest in list behavior discussions: An open list: list-
> [email-masked].
> >
> >All messages not relevant to GA business, but relevant to those with
> special
> >interest of list behavior, could be filtered from the ga-list and
> forwarded
> >to the list-behave-list. This should be according to the list-rules for
>  GA.
> >
> >This is my only message to the GA on this topic. I am just waiting
> patiently
> >to see DNSO GA back in business asap.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Alf H
> >.NO
> >
> >--
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> >Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
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> >Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:04:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "William X. Walsh" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Interesting to see someone talk about Tyranny of the Majority, because that's
whats being setup for the so called "IDNO" contituency, who can vote out anyone
the 50% +1 do not like or agree with.

On 17-Feb-2000 Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
> Tyranny of the majority.   How to silence dissent. 
> That would suffice to get even me to leave the list.  (Not to mention all
> the noise traffic it would generate).
> 
> The point of protecting dissenting voices is exactly that they are
> unpopular.  Popular voices don't require protection.
> 
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alex Kamantauskas wrote:
> 
>> 
>>  How about the following process:
>> 
>>  SAA receives a complaint.  SAA announces the complaint, and issues a
>>  request wherein each member of the list (if they so wish) sends in a
>>  'yea' or 'nay' vote.  At the end of an established period (say, 24 or 48
>>  hours), SAA counts the votes.  If the 'yea' outweigh the 'nay', sanctions
>>  are imposed.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
> U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
> +1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>                         -->It's warm here.<--
> 
> --
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:01:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Warning: [email-masked] is sending directly

Once again Harald - this has been tried - it has failed.  dnsipv6 is in my
books as real as anyone else here and they have the right to
participate.  Until such time as this assembly properly vet's the people
here I won't be satisfied with your claims of bogus people.  You have no
proof.

Regards
Joe Baptista

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

> At 06:04 17.02.00 -0500, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote:
> 
> >won't work - been tried - failed.  Also he has the right to appeal to the
> >membership.  He is a member .. and god bless them all for it.
> 
> Correction: Jeff Williams is a member. dnsipv6 is a false front.
> 
>               Harald
> 
> --
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand, EDB Maxware, Norway
> [email-masked]
> 

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:05:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Cairo

Ducks - at this time of year there's a small migration of ducks that fly
by cairo.

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

> Who is going to Cairo?
> 
> Regards
> Roberto
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:16:58 -0800
From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Use of "loon"

Folks might want to take a moment and congratulate themselves on the 
sustained focus and seriousness of discussion on this list.

As nearly as I can tell, the recent message traffic, over the last 2-3 
weeks at least, has been at least 50% -- and probably much more -- about 
list behaviors and abuses and -- perhaps -- the rest about actual GA content.

Well done, indeed!  An excellent motivator for those seeking to provide 
real and meaningful input to the ICANN process.

d/

=-=-=-=-=
Dave Crocker  <[email-masked]>
Brandenburg Consulting  <www.brandenburg.com>
Tel: +1.408.246.8253,  Fax: +1.408.273.6464
675 Spruce Drive,  Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA

Gong Xi Fa Cai   /  Selamat Tahun Baru Cina

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:26:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Kamantauskas <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:

> Tyranny of the majority.   How to silence dissent. 

 With all respect, I don't believe that will happen.  Here is my thought
 process (and yes, I am amenable to having my thought process changed ;-)

 Currently, the SAA receives a complaint, and decides 'yes' or 'no'.  If
 we allow the list to vote 'yes' or 'no', then the spectre of 'silencing
 dissent' is raised.  However, the SAA knows that 'dissent' is not grounds
 for sanction, and would never pass along such complaints to the list for
 vote.  A person who dissents, and does so in an insulting and disruptive
 manner, does not have the right to remain on the list solely because they
 are a 'dissenter'.  If a person dissents, and does so within the rules,
 then there is no grounds to have them removed that would ever make it to
 the list for a vote.

> The point of protecting dissenting voices is exactly that they are
> unpopular.  Popular voices don't require protection.

 I agree.  I'm still uncomfortable with the fact that one person decides
 who gets to play and who goes home (although I have full confidence in
 Harald's decisions.)  

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:18:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Attention Harald, Esther Dyson, and Becky Burr] to:Re: [ga] disclaimer

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Gary Peake wrote:

> Sorry, but as a total outsider, I find remarks like the above quite funny.
> I see all these posts where people "try" to make themselves look quite
> intelligent by the wording, yet they use "legal phrases" that do not apply
> or apply only peripherally.

it's old english - in case you were wondering - peppered with nuvo slang.

> Do you know the legal definition of both "libel and slander"?

Yup - as defined in the Libel and Slander Act - Ontario R.S.O. something.

> I suggest you look them up before using them like this for the above
> statement and accompanying post  may well be "libel" in itself.

Both terms are used interchangably in law except when specifically
applied.  In this case yes - libel is the better charge - however only a
"court of competent juridiction has the right to adjudicate the the
issue".  How about that for legal slang.

> I am not taking sides, but am using this as an example. I find the
> "speeches" being made quite funny and as an outsider who does web hosting
> and "uses" the systems you guys govern, I also see why it is the system is
> so screwed up.

You are exactly right - you are governed by twits - and some day more
people like yourself wil realize this and on that day you won't be
governed by twits anymore.

The power ICANN has is over the control of the USG root Servers which
everyone uses - but since those root servers can be replaced - ICANN by
default can also be moved aside.

> Is it possible for me to forward posts from here to alt.www.webmaster as it
> will answer many questions some of the top professionals have there about
> why the system doesn't work?

Absolutly - also invite them to join the GA to see for themselves.  This
form of stupidity is best served warm so all can appreciate it's squalor.

The better conference where you'll get straigh answers is [email-masked] -
and the internic domain policy lists.

> While NetSol may have had their problems when it was them or nothing, at
> least we KNEW who the culprit was when something didn't get handled (and
> that USED to be seldom contrary to today where almost everything, with ANY
> company is a muck up at best).

ICANN has solved the culprit problem by making the structure so complex -
it's impossible to figure out who's who.

Regards
Joe Baptista

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:20:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] disclaimer 

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Patrick Greenwell wrote:

> Harald, you are displaying a *GREAT* deal of personal bias in your
> judgement. There has been a request to filter someone based on  language
> that is well outside the scope of the supposed civil discourse
> rules of the list. If the rules are to apply equitably, they must be
> applied EQUALLY. 

I disagree - this place is clearly a dictatorship - and as dictatorships
go - Harald is completely within his power to muck around as he pleases.

Regards
Joe Baptista

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:24:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ga] Re: Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

> So far, every single message I have had suggests that calling Joe Baptista 
> a loon is language that should cause the utterer's suspension from the list.

It's in the rules Harald.  Just a gentle reminder.

> If that's a common opinion on the list, I will modify my judgment criteria 
> accordingly.

How sweet of you.

> Note that the revised judgment criteria will also include a number of other 
> words formerly tolerated; they are (in my judgment) weaker than 
> "horse-shitters", but stronger than "loon".

Explain yourself Harald.  I certainly have no idea what your going on
about here.  Are you telling me it's OK now under the rules to call people
loons.  So I can't say your a horse shitter - but it's OK to call you
Harald the Loon?

> Is that OK with everyone?

No Harald - people are telling you your behaving impartially.  read and
learn Harald - read and learn.

Regards
Joe Baptista

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:34:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Number of messages

let's be fair - one message a day - or better yet - non.

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Kent Crispin wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 17, 2000 at 07:22:19PM +0100, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
> > 
> > I am recommending the list administrator to limit the maximum number of 
> > messages that any subscriber can send per day to 5.
> 
> How about 3?
> 
> -- 
> Kent Crispin                               "Do good, and you'll be
> [email-masked]                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:39:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] disclaimer

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Kent Crispin wrote:

> Please recall that Harald has ignored my earlier formal complaint to 
> remove Joe Baptista on grounds that he has threatened to cause trouble 
> with people's employers.  That, to me, is a *far* more serious offense 
> than name calling.  He has already cut Baptista far more slack than he 
> should.  

And he ignored it rightly.  It's my business - and not that of this
assembly - what I do in private to gurantee civl servants are put in their
place.

Of course Harald our fearless dictator could incorporate that into the
rules.

> If anything, Harald is erring in favor of Baptista.

No No - don't be confused - Harald is erring on the side of Harold, and
not doing a good job of it, as the critics show.

Regards
Joe Baptista

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:40:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Number of messages

Thank you christopher - your sarcasm helps to crystalize the level of
insanity here.  God bless you my son.

Regards
Joe Baptista

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Christopher Ambler wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Additionally, that word that Roberto used is about the worst insult
> one can make in my native language. We all recall that we're not all
> native English speakers, right? I can't even repeat the word, it's
> so bad.
> 
> Please remove Roberto immediately.
> 
> And we also don't like semicolons; so don't use them.
> 
> - --
> Christopher Ambler - 
> PGP Public Key: http://www.ambler.net/Chris
> 
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Kent
> Crispin
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 10:54 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [ga] Number of messages
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2000 at 07:22:19PM +0100, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
> > 
> > I am recommending the list administrator to limit the maximum
> > number of  messages that any subscriber can send per day to 5.
> 
> How about 3?
> 
> - -- 
> Kent Crispin                               "Do good, and you'll be
> [email-masked]                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:46:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 100, John Charles Broomfield wrote:

> Personally, I feel that wrt Joe Baptista, "loon" is descriptive, and not an
> insult. Joe may feel insluted by the description, but then again someone
> might feel insulted by being called fat despite weighing half a ton. It
> doesn't stop it frokm being descriptive.

Let me make a correction here - first I'm not insulted.  Being called
a loon by Mr. Walsh is in my books somewhat irrelavant.

The only issue here is the application of the rules.  And the bias we have
seen thus far.  These rules are illegally placed here because of electoral
fraud by the chairs - but they are non-the-less the rules of this
assembly, and I have agreed by participating here to observe said rules.

Pity the chair and alternate can;t rise to the occassion.  But then again
- - it's thier perogative in any dictatorship to ignore their own
rules.  Following the rules is something democratic and free assemblies do
- - this is not a democratic nor free assembly.

> 
> I don't think that any messages describing Joe Baptista can be constructive
> or serve any purpose, apart from that of warning the unwary.

I agree there does seem to be alot of Joe Baptista in the wind these
days.  You can blame Walsh for that - he's my biggest supported.

> 
> I would recommend messages to stay on track and avoid Baptista. I don't
> think that describing him merits a ban. Dunno how to establish workable and
> usable rules to that effect.

And invitation only GA would work.

Regards
Joe baptista

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:50:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Proposal: List behavior discussions on a separat list.

I don't think many people wouold bother with a list behaviour conference -
because list behaviour is not the issue.  The issue is an unbiased
application of the rules, which does not exist.

Regards
Joe baptista

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alf Hansen wrote:

> Dear Chair and list monitor,
> 
> I propose that the DNSO offer a special service to those with spesific
> interest in list behavior discussions: An open list: [email-masked].
> 
> All messages not relevant to GA business, but relevant to those with special
> interest of list behavior, could be filtered from the ga-list and forwarded
> to the list-behave-list. This should be according to the list-rules for GA.
> 
> This is my only message to the GA on this topic. I am just waiting patiently
> to see DNSO GA back in business asap.
> 
> Best regards,
> Alf H
> .NO
> 
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:56:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

It's an idea Alex - but a better set of rules - like Roberts Rules of
Order - which were superseeded by the loony rules we have here, already
provide provisions for removal.

For now we live with the current GA rules - which have aquired a somewhat
loony reputation.

Regards
Joe baptista

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alex Kamantauskas wrote:

> 
>  How about the following process:
> 
>  SAA receives a complaint.  SAA announces the complaint, and issues a
>  request wherein each member of the list (if they so wish) sends in a
>  'yea' or 'nay' vote.  At the end of an established period (say, 24 or 48
>  hours), SAA counts the votes.  If the 'yea' outweigh the 'nay', sanctions
>  are imposed.
> 
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
> 
> > [cc's trimmed]
> > 
> > No.  I object to the whole thing. 
> > 
> > If I can't have that, I vote for the shortest list of criteria possible on
> > the grounds that the less time wrangling about challenges and such the
> > more time for other stuff.
> > 
> > And I don't accept the sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander
> > argument.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  Those who oppose this policy
> > should rise above it, not invoke it.  And if it's to be invoked by anyone,
> > the fewer grounds available the better.
> > 
> > On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
> > 
> > > So far, every single message I have had suggests that calling Joe Baptista 
> > > a loon is language that should cause the utterer's suspension from the list.
> > > 
> > > If that's a common opinion on the list, I will modify my judgment criteria 
> > > accordingly.
> > > 
> > > Note that the revised judgment criteria will also include a number of other 
> > > words formerly tolerated; they are (in my judgment) weaker than 
> > > "horse-shitters", but stronger than "loon".
> > > 
> > > Is that OK with everyone?
> > > 
> > >                           Harald
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Harald Tveit Alvestrand, EDB Maxware, Norway
> > > [email-masked]
> > > 
> > > --
> > > This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
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> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
> > U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
> > +1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
> >                         -->It's warm here.<--
> > 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Alex Kamantauskas
> [email-masked]
> 
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:57:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Patrick Greenwell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:

> Tyranny of the majority.   How to silence dissent. 
> That would suffice to get even me to leave the list.  (Not to mention all
> the noise traffic it would generate).
> 
> The point of protecting dissenting voices is exactly that they are
> unpopular.  Popular voices don't require protection.

Agreed.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
                               Patrick Greenwell                          
                       Earth is a single point of failure.
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:02:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Christopher Ambler wrote:

> How about we put everyone on this list up for a vote. We then all
> vote yea or nay on who should remain. Then we vote upon how we'll
> vote to format the email. I prefer ASCII, but some like HTML. Then
> I think we should vote on what we all will have for lunch
> tomorrow, and anyone who doesn't like sushi is kicked off the
> list.

Oh Chris - you a man after my heart.  I love sushi.

> Once we've done that, we then all go home happy, and listen to
> the conference call of the rest of the Internet community laughing
> at this whole joke, while ICANN makes a pronouncement that there
> is wide community consensus to ban domain names altogether. In
> case anyone hasn't noticed, ICANN has been making decisions
> independent of this illustrious body since day-one. We are,
> in a word, irrelevant.

exactly - therefore I'm all for your proposal let's have some sushi.  I
agree with your observations - since day one the GA has been irrelavant,
so we might as well have some sushi.

> But this list is still amusing. It would be frustrating if it
> weren't for the fact that the real work is being done elsewhere,
> and this list is bread and circuses for the half of you on
> this list not participating elsewhere.

Still - it's the only place those who do not participat eleswhere may have
their voice.  However I don't know how long that will last.  The GA is one
foot away from it's grave, curtesy of our chair and alternate.

Regards
Joe Baptista

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:04:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "!Dr. Joe Baptista" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:

> The point of protecting dissenting voices is exactly that they are
> unpopular.  Popular voices don't require protection.

That's right Michael.  Freedom of speech that one does not like - is the
very reason we protect it in a free and democratic society.  After all -
Hitler was a big supporter of freedom of speech - provided of course such
speech was the correct speech Hitler wanted to hear.

Regards
Joe baptista

> 
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alex Kamantauskas wrote:
> 
> > 
> >  How about the following process:
> > 
> >  SAA receives a complaint.  SAA announces the complaint, and issues a
> >  request wherein each member of the list (if they so wish) sends in a
> >  'yea' or 'nay' vote.  At the end of an established period (say, 24 or 48
> >  hours), SAA counts the votes.  If the 'yea' outweigh the 'nay', sanctions
> >  are imposed.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 
> A. Michael Froomkin   |    Professor of Law    |   [email-masked]
> U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
> +1 (305) 284-4285  |  +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  http://www.law.tm
>                         -->It's warm here.<--
> 
> --
> This message was passed to you via the [email-masked] list.
> Send mail to [email-masked] to unsubscribe
> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:05:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Patrick Greenwell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ga-full] Use of "loon"

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Alex Kamantauskas wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
> 
> > Tyranny of the majority.   How to silence dissent. 
> 
>  With all respect, I don't believe that will happen.  Here is my thought
>  process (and yes, I am amenable to having my thought process changed ;-)
> 
>  Currently, the SAA receives a complaint, and decides 'yes' or 'no'. 

You forget the SAA can generate his own complaint.

> If we allow the list to vote 'yes' or 'no', then the spectre of
> 'silencing  dissent' is raised.  However, the SAA knows that 'dissent'
> is not grounds for sanction,

Umm, keep in mind that we are talking about the same SAA who, in an
earlier message stated in effect that it was ok to refer to one list
member as a "loon."

>  vote.  A person who dissents, and does so in an insulting and disruptive
>  manner, does not have the right to remain on the list solely because they
>  are a 'dissenter'.

Yet we have a situation where more than one person has stated they believe
it is ok to call a specific member of the list a loon. Doubtlessly, were
someone to refer to them as such, they would take offense. So it would
seem that the term "insulting" is subject to a great deal of
interpretation.

>  I agree.  I'm still uncomfortable with the fact that one person decides
>  who gets to play and who goes home (although I have full confidence in
>  Harald's decisions.)  

I don't.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
                               Patrick Greenwell                          
                       Earth is a single point of failure.
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

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------------------------------

End of GA-DIGEST V1 #5
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